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Is there even a *POINT* to Watercooling?

Keep seeing this watercooling kits people are selling, and they are SO expensive that by the time you've bought the goods to set the damn thing up you could have just *bought* the doozahurtz processor you've managed to OC to anyway. What in the hell is the point of this? As far as I can tell it appears to be a worthless technology, primarily because it's just WAY too expensive for what you really get out of it.

Jason
 
1. It's an investment, the only thing you have to upgrade are the CPU and GPU blocks. The rest you can re-use for future systems.
2. Un-matched performance to noise ratio. While air cooled systems can be quieter or offer high performance water cooling gives you the best cooling possible at reasonably low noise levels.
 
Here we go again. Stock answers at the ready:

For about $200-250 you can assemble a top-notch watercooling system that will be easily expandable and adaptable. For that price, which will largely carry over into future systems, you get cooling an order of magnitude better than with a traditional HSF as well as blessed silence, if that's your thing. Either alone is sweet; the combination is better. I pity the folks with their Deltas screaming away.

The performance improvement depends largely on the platform. I'm running a Barton at 2500MHz, when my max on air was 2300. Not a huge difference there, sure, but you couldn't buy a Barton with this sort of performance, and to get anywhere near this on air (this side of a mobile chip) you'd go half deaf. A Prescott-based system can see huge performance leaps from watercooling; A64s tend to see less benefit, especially the 90nm chips, because they often reach the limits of their process before heat becomes the overriding factor.

And then, of course, there's the bling factor. It's just cool, a good conversation piece if nothing else. (My fiance took one look at my rig and said I must've been reading my "cool meter" upside down....) Look, some folks rice out their Civics, some build serious home theater setups. And some of us put highly conductive liquids inside running computers. Hell, you already enjoy tinkering with your PC enough to log onto these forums; why not go that extra step? Or don't. Whatever. To each his own, eh?

-HC-
 
I was wondering the point to water cooling as well. I know you get much lower temps with it, but when I first read about water cooling, as it was first hitting mainstream, I thought to myself, great idea, way to keep thinks very cool and close to silent. As I looked at water cooling solutions though, all the systems have massive fans on them. How quiet can a water cooled computer be? Are they near silent at all?
 
The point of the massive fans is since they are so big (most are 120mm case fans exhausting in the rear and sucking in cold air from the front), they push as much air as smaller 80mm fans but can spin at much lower RPM rates, thus, having lower overall fan noise.

Now, that said, the gap between silent air cooled components and silent water cooled components is narrowing. With low speed 92mm fans paired w/ Zalman heat sinks, you will start to approach the noise level of a water cooled computer.

2 years ago, I invested in a water cooled computer to cut out the noise from having jet engine fans on my dual Athlon MP... now-a-days, with dampening material and the Zalman coolers, I'm not sure I'd still go the same route but water cooling is still the quietest, just not by as big a margin as before.
 
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Keep seeing this watercooling kits people are selling, and they are SO expensive that by the time you've bought the goods to set the damn thing up you could have just *bought* the doozahurtz processor you've managed to OC to anyway. What in the hell is the point of this? As far as I can tell it appears to be a worthless technology, primarily because it's just WAY too expensive for what you really get out of it.

Jason

I don't understand your hostility. No one is forcing you to buy into water. Moreover, why does it bother you so much what other people spend their money on? For the rest of you guys, why are you wasting your time trying to explain ANYTHING to this guy? Do you really expect your justifications for using water to make any difference to him?

 
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Keep seeing this watercooling kits people are selling, and they are SO expensive that by the time you've bought the goods to set the damn thing up you could have just *bought* the doozahurtz processor you've managed to OC to anyway. What in the hell is the point of this? As far as I can tell it appears to be a worthless technology, primarily because it's just WAY too expensive for what you really get out of it.

Jason

I don't understand your hostility. No one is forcing you to buy into water. Moreover, why does it bother you so much what other people spend their money on? For the rest of you guys, why are you wasting your time trying to explain ANYTHING to this guy? Do you really expect your justifications for using water to make any difference to him?

Heh, true enough. Of course, by this this point I've got a canned answer ready for a copy/paste every time somebody raises the question....

-HC-
 
I found my new system with Intel Prescott was extremely noisy. I would OC up to 3.9 easily by the fan was running at 4260 rpm. It was actually shaking the case. While gaming that stinks. I set the fan speed to 1580 rpm on the 120mm fan and it cools 10 degrees C better than Intel fan. I've been buying stuff for my pc's since 1988 and this is in the Top 5 of all purchases.

I went with this Excellent performance, low price ($118.95) and I can barely here it run.

Pictures of installation in my AW Area 51:
http://photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdar...¤t=12PredatorCoolingClose-up.jpg

The vendor I used ordered Monday night recieved Thursday afternoon for the cheapest shipping option:
http://store.pcpowerzone.com/thclbigwa12l.html

Video review of installation I found:
http://www.3dgameman.com/vr/thermaltake/bigwater/video_review_03.html
 
Very nice mj, AND you're a case-study for anyone who believes that small-bore\kit water-cooling automatically sucks. :thumbsup:
 
Exactly HardWarrior,
I like messing and tweaking my system and I could have configured a custom water system which could have easily outdone the Big Water but I decided to get something that would satisfy my tweaking nature but not become a huge project. Granted many like to achieve the highest results possible and thats great because we all learn including the manufacturers of the hardware.

This system I got works straight out of the box and is really pretty decent.
 
Well said, mj. One of the reasons that the act of discussing water-cooling can become so strained is based on this. Many of us seem to forget that others simply aren't obliged to do things just as we ourselves would. I've read SO many negative "opinions" about the Bigwater, by people who haven't used the unit or even read a review, that you wouldn't believe it. Anyway, I'm pleased that your experience has been a positive one, and I hope as many of the "Never buy a kit, because >I< wouldn't buy one!!!" crowd reads of it. 🙂
 
Building computers is a hobby. I don't build a computer JUST so I can play CS or HL2 on awesome settings. Sure, it's a nice side effect, but I build mainly for the fun, the knowledge, and experience. It's just like any other hobby, you can't really ever "be done" with it. Maybe for you, you build to use. We enthusiasts build for fun.
 
Mr Vile

I'm kinda a combo guy I buy/build to use, but I like configuring and upgrading also.

You are the type that take it to the limit and that's cool in my book. I must agree I want to play at the highest settings possible in any game I buy. I've been doing that since 1988.

First video card upgrade 1.5MB but I display at 1024x768. IBM PS/2 How do you like that memory upgrade daughter card.

http://photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdar.../?action=view&current=IBM_XGA8514a.jpg

I was doing SLI 7 years ago, and I could do Quake at 1024x768 full vid options

http://photobucket.com/albums/y25/mjdar...on=view&current=CanopusPure3DIISLI.jpg

This is just my approach to the world of pc's
 
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Building computers is a hobby. I don't build a computer JUST so I can play CS or HL2 on awesome settings. Sure, it's a nice side effect, but I build mainly for the fun, the knowledge, and experience. It's just like any other hobby, you can't really ever "be done" with it. Maybe for you, you build to use. We enthusiasts build for fun.

100% correct. It amazes me that this seems so hard for some people the understand.

 
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
Here we go again. Stock answers at the ready:

For about $200-250 you can assemble a top-notch watercooling system that will be easily expandable and adaptable. For that price, which will largely carry over into future systems, you get cooling an order of magnitude better than with a traditional HSF as well as blessed silence, if that's your thing. Either alone is sweet; the combination is better. I pity the folks with their Deltas screaming away.

The performance improvement depends largely on the platform. I'm running a Barton at 2500MHz, when my max on air was 2300. Not a huge difference there, sure, but you couldn't buy a Barton with this sort of performance, and to get anywhere near this on air (this side of a mobile chip) you'd go half deaf. A Prescott-based system can see huge performance leaps from watercooling; A64s tend to see less benefit, especially the 90nm chips, because they often reach the limits of their process before heat becomes the overriding factor.

And then, of course, there's the bling factor. It's just cool, a good conversation piece if nothing else. (My fiance took one look at my rig and said I must've been reading my "cool meter" upside down....) Look, some folks rice out their Civics, some build serious home theater setups. And some of us put highly conductive liquids inside running computers. Hell, you already enjoy tinkering with your PC enough to log onto these forums; why not go that extra step? Or don't. Whatever. To each his own, eh?

-HC-

LOL, well *that* is a great answer. All in all, I think I'll stick with air. I'm not worried about noise or milking the last bit of OC out of the box. My case has *very* nice insulation and I can barely hear the pair of 120mm's or the 5 80mm's that cool this crazy beast as it is.

On the bright side, though, thanks to the posts folks have made here, I at *least* have a bit better of understanding as to why you guys like to do it! 🙂

Jason
 
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Keep seeing this watercooling kits people are selling, and they are SO expensive that by the time you've bought the goods to set the damn thing up you could have just *bought* the doozahurtz processor you've managed to OC to anyway. What in the hell is the point of this? As far as I can tell it appears to be a worthless technology, primarily because it's just WAY too expensive for what you really get out of it.

Jason

I don't understand your hostility. No one is forcing you to buy into water. Moreover, why does it bother you so much what other people spend their money on? For the rest of you guys, why are you wasting your time trying to explain ANYTHING to this guy? Do you really expect your justifications for using water to make any difference to him?

Um, sorry if I came across as hostile, that wasn't the intention. I was just curious is all 🙂

Jason
 
Originally posted by: Mrvile
Building computers is a hobby. I don't build a computer JUST so I can play CS or HL2 on awesome settings. Sure, it's a nice side effect, but I build mainly for the fun, the knowledge, and experience. It's just like any other hobby, you can't really ever "be done" with it. Maybe for you, you build to use. We enthusiasts build for fun.

Well, I'm very much an enthusiast, but as a systems engineer I am predominantly concerned with function and efficiency, of course. In any case, I've seen some WC rigs that made for very cool displays, it's just the expense of it that doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather add that $200+/- to a new video card or CPU or some other component.

Either way, the responses here have been pretty good, and at least I understand a little better your motivations for going water 🙂

Jason
 
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
Here we go again. Stock answers at the ready:

For about $200-250 you can assemble a top-notch watercooling system that will be easily expandable and adaptable. For that price, which will largely carry over into future systems, you get cooling an order of magnitude better than with a traditional HSF as well as blessed silence, if that's your thing. Either alone is sweet; the combination is better. I pity the folks with their Deltas screaming away.

The performance improvement depends largely on the platform. I'm running a Barton at 2500MHz, when my max on air was 2300. Not a huge difference there, sure, but you couldn't buy a Barton with this sort of performance, and to get anywhere near this on air (this side of a mobile chip) you'd go half deaf. A Prescott-based system can see huge performance leaps from watercooling; A64s tend to see less benefit, especially the 90nm chips, because they often reach the limits of their process before heat becomes the overriding factor.

And then, of course, there's the bling factor. It's just cool, a good conversation piece if nothing else. (My fiance took one look at my rig and said I must've been reading my "cool meter" upside down....) Look, some folks rice out their Civics, some build serious home theater setups. And some of us put highly conductive liquids inside running computers. Hell, you already enjoy tinkering with your PC enough to log onto these forums; why not go that extra step? Or don't. Whatever. To each his own, eh?

-HC-

LOL, well *that* is a great answer. All in all, I think I'll stick with air. I'm not worried about noise or milking the last bit of OC out of the box. My case has *very* nice insulation and I can barely hear the pair of 120mm's or the 5 80mm's that cool this crazy beast as it is.

On the bright side, though, thanks to the posts folks have made here, I at *least* have a bit better of understanding as to why you guys like to do it! 🙂

Jason

How the F do you have 3K posts and STILL not know the answer to that question?
 
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Originally posted by: HardWarrior
Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Keep seeing this watercooling kits people are selling, and they are SO expensive that by the time you've bought the goods to set the damn thing up you could have just *bought* the doozahurtz processor you've managed to OC to anyway. What in the hell is the point of this? As far as I can tell it appears to be a worthless technology, primarily because it's just WAY too expensive for what you really get out of it.

Jason

I don't understand your hostility. No one is forcing you to buy into water. Moreover, why does it bother you so much what other people spend their money on? For the rest of you guys, why are you wasting your time trying to explain ANYTHING to this guy? Do you really expect your justifications for using water to make any difference to him?

Um, sorry if I came across as hostile, that wasn't the intention. I was just curious is all 🙂

Jason

Yet that's just how you're coming off, and you're still being hostile. As an enthusiast and systems engineer you should understand that no one is obliged to justify anything to you. Especially if you assume the posture of knowing what other people should spend their money. If water is too expensive or otherwise superfluous to you, then don't buy it. But don't assume that there are people here who NEED to be told where the bear sits.

 
Originally posted by: MrControversial
Originally posted by: HeaterCore
I pity the folks with their Deltas screaming away.

-HC-
Cheapshot.

Hell, I have 6 deltas FOR my water cooling rig. Albiet I made a special rheostat for them. two 437w TECs adds a lot of heat to the loop.
 
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