Is there any way for a person that commits suicide to go to heaven?

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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
But the point is, you choose to escape the suffering by killing yourself. So if you are depressed, and choose to escape the suffering by killing yourself, why is it then totally different?

I dunno if I'd call that suicide really...jumping out of a burning building isn't really what I would call suicide. More of a act of faith than anything. Having faith/hope whatever that you'll be better off (phsyically speaking) than staying in the building.

It's not like some 15 year old kid who isn't happy with his life splattering his brains against his bedroom wall.

I guess "suicide" to me has a couple different levels...

1) the jumping out of burning window example - yeh, you'll probably die if the building is tall enough, but it's better than the alternative. People who die rescuing people in very risky situations also fall into this category. They don't go out there with the intention of dying, it just happens.

2) "death with dignity" - AKA Dr. Kevorkian - you are going to die shortly, you are in an immense amount of pain, there really isn't much reason to live, just end it on your terms peacefully. Is it right? I don't think there is an answer to that. Comes down to personal beleifs. I personally have no problems with it.

3) The person who can't handle hardships in their life or are clinically depressed prematurely ending their lives. Worse type of suicide IMHO.

4) Then there's martrys...yeh they commit suicide technically, but it's *usually* for a good reason or it makes the lives of many other people better. The rescuers that I mentioned in example one sort of fit into this category. Martyrs are typically considered to be people who die for religious causes, but I believe that it can be used for people who do it for political/physical well being of others.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
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Originally posted by: cheapbidder01
Originally posted by: MacBaine
Switch to a religion that allows it.

Muslims.

Edit: but you'd have to kill others in the process.

Hadith Bukhari 2:445
The Prophet said, "Whoever intentionally swears falsely by a religion other than Islam, then he is what he has said, (e.g. if he says, 'If such thing is not true then I am a Jew,' he is really a Jew). And whoever commits suicide with piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire." Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him."

Hadith - Bukhari 7:670

The Prophet said, "Whoever purposely throws himself from a mountain and kills himself, will be in the (Hell) Fire falling down into it and abiding therein perpetually forever; and whoever drinks poison and kills himself with it, he will be carrying his poison in his hand and drinking it in the (Hell) Fire wherein he will abide eternally forever; and whoever kills himself with an iron weapon, will be carrying that weapon in his hand and stabbing his abdomen with it in the (Hell) Fire wherein he will abide eternally forever."

Sounds like you are fvcked to me.
 

Wuffsunie

Platinum Member
May 4, 2002
2,808
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Originally posted by: MisterJackson
No, because God's only power over you is to take your life. If you take that power from him (i.e.- commiting suicide) that is a big b1tch slap in his face, thus no entry to heaven, no 72 virgins, ect, ect...
Oh, nice guy! You made me spray my morning coffee all over my monitor! :D

It's times like this that I miss the wrathful Old Testament God. Not that I have anything against you, Jackson -- what you said was hilarious -- I just perfer a God that takes an ACTIVE interest in the existence of his creations. This world could DEFINETLY do with a few... hundred million smitings ;)

-- Jack
 

rpc64

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2002
2,135
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If you are jumping to escape burning to death I don't think it is technically your fault. So I think you would be ok there.

And I would never take my car to Walmart for anything.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,256
406
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There is no heaven. Get over it. :p

Originally posted by: gordy
no, suicide is the single greatest act of selfishness possible

How is it the greatest act of selfishness possible?
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,775
18,959
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if you were on the aforementioned bus full of nuns and schoolchildren, and chose to save yourself and let them die, that would be more selfish.
 

gordy

Senior member
Jan 26, 2003
306
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HTF not?

it's all about them, "my ___ sucks"; "nobody ___ me"; and on and on and on, me, me, me

boil it down to the lowest common denominator, jeez
rolleye.gif


i know there's some brains here...
 

gordy

Senior member
Jan 26, 2003
306
0
0
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if you were on the aforementioned bus full of nuns and schoolchildren, and chose to save yourself and let them die, that would be more selfish.


that's semantics

that's called sacrifice
rolleye.gif
 

Chunkee

Lifer
Jul 28, 2002
10,391
1
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if it saves the life of another person, I am sure, you will get a pass. God is forgiving.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,775
18,959
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Originally posted by: gordy
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if you were on the aforementioned bus full of nuns and schoolchildren, and chose to save yourself and let them die, that would be more selfish.


that's semantics

that's called sacrifice
rolleye.gif

You said "suicide is the single greatest act of selfishness possible"
I gave you a perfectly valid act that is greater in selfishness.
 

yukichigai

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2003
6,404
0
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I think it more comes down to whether or not there is any more possible good that could come out of you continuing to live than there would be in you dying. The burning building is a good example, but say you shot yourself in the head instead. Now barring some near-miraculous rescue that occured seconds after you pulled the trigger -- assuming you didn't wait until the flames were right there in front of you -- the only thing you really missed out on was a minute or so of incredible pain. In fact some good may even come of it; when the M.E. takes a look at your body he (or she if you're on Crossing Jordan or something) will be able to tell your family that you didn't suffer.

As for ending your life early because of a horrible fatal disease, I think that falls under the category of spiritual strength. Not everyone is strong enough to handle whatever life throws at them. I think as long as you did some deep inner contemplation, considered the impact of what you're considering doing -- not just on yourself but others as well -- and made the decision based on what would do the most good, then suicide wouldn't be a sin. (or at least not one that would get you sent to Hell or wherever) Of course there is always the possibility that you're supposed to stay alive a little longer to serve some hidden purpose, but that would also be something to consider and if applicable pray for guidance on.

In the case of committing suicide to save others that isn't really suicide so much as martyrdom. It doesn't matter if you do the act that causes your death, the situation which prompted you to do it wasn't probably your doing. Even if it was -- say you set a bomb to go off then changed your mind or found it would kill people, but disabling it would kill you -- I think that counts as a redeeming act, since regardless of whatever other sins you may have committed in the end you showed that you valued people and their well-being above all else.

Finally there's the case of the 15 year old committing suicide in a fit of teenage angst. (or something similar) A suicide motivated by depression. What occurs to me on this topic is that while the various religious texts say you need to ask forgiveness for sins you have committed -- i.e. suicide -- I don't seem to remember anywhere saying that forgiveness can't be asked for after you're dead. I'm not saying it's an open-ended "whenever you feel like it between now and eternity" kind of thing, but say the angsty 15 year old kills himself because some girl dumped him, and as his soul is floating around in the time between death and judgment he realizes exactly how poor of a decision that was and starts feeling pretty bad about it. Well according to the various religious texts if you repent for a sin and ask for forgiveness you will be absolved of it. I think the same goes for people who kill themselves because of a mental disease, assuming that when you're dead you no longer have any of your impairments in life. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that a schizophrenic who slashes his wrists because the voices told him to will definitely regret that decision.

Bottom line, it all comes down to whether or not it was a selfish act and whether or not you regret it if it was. The ones you'd really have to worry about were the people who planned their suicides for a while before doing it. If they spent so much time on it they might not consider what they did a bad thing, leaving a sin unforgiven.
 

Pilsnerpete

Platinum Member
Apr 4, 2002
2,060
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I don't care about the religious gibberish here. Don't fvcking do it. Don't do it. If you've considered it, STOP.
 

gordy

Senior member
Jan 26, 2003
306
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Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: gordy
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Every person has the right to decide to end their own life.

says who?

Me.
And that's the distinct impression I get from the Constitution of the USA as well.

whoa, better reread the Constitution, there lil cowpoke

 

MainFramed

Diamond Member
May 29, 2002
5,981
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yes i believe so.... not everyone however.....

i might decide to ellaborate on this topic later
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
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Depends if you leave all your worldly goods to a televangelist. If you do, I'm pretty sure any means of death is okay and they'll guarantee you a spot in heaven.
 

ClueLis

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2003
2,269
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Originally posted by: rubix
well jesus committed suicide so you figure it out

Only sort of. What he did, throwing himself into peril for the greater good, is considered martyrdom. In the early days of Christianity, this was not considered suicide. It only became banned in the proceeding centuries when Christians were turning themselves in to the Romans at such a rate that the Christian population was taking a hit. After that, putting youself in a situation you know means death became a sin.

Edit: on another note, it was a capitol crime in 16th century England to attempt suicide. :confused:
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
62,775
18,959
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Originally posted by: gordy
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Originally posted by: gordy
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Every person has the right to decide to end their own life.

says who?

Me.
And that's the distinct impression I get from the Constitution of the USA as well.

whoa, better reread the Constitution, there lil cowpoke

Oh? Did I miss the part that says suicide is wrong?
I realize that "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" is from the Declaration of Independence, but the Constitution and Bill of Rights go right along with it, more or less, and I'd say having the liberty to choose to your own life should be pretty well covered.