Is the "Unreal style shooter" dead?

[StinkyPinky]

UT99 and Ut2004 were probably the only FPS games I really enjoyed. UT2007 bored me. Dunno if it was the game or just my tastes changing.

 

[Anubis]

Fire up some CS if you want action.

One of the most played fps at this time still.

CS is a steaming pile of faggoty shit compared to the glory that was UT

 

[WaitingForNehalem]

CS is superior in every way to UT IMO.

 

[Maleficus]

CS is superior in every way to UT IMO.

shut your whore mouth

 

[Phobic9]

CS is superior in every way to UT IMO.

How? UT99 + Instagib + virtually any mode = Classic. Several reasons why we don't see this type of gameplay anymore in new games.

shut your whore mouth

:awe:

 

[Pacfanweb]

Of course it's subjective. Any number of reasons could produce those results. The arena shooter genre itself has been dying for years. The variety of games during UT2k4's release is considerably greater than UT99. The games are different enough that a fan of one is not by necessity a fan of the other. Need I go on?

It's not subjective that UT99 had and still has more people playing it than UT2k4.

It's also not subjective, even from your flawed assertion about 2k4 having more competition.....because that competition would also be competing with existing games like UT99.

 

[CP5670]

In retrospect I guess most games went into either a more Halo or Counterstrike direction. I remember playing CS for countless hours with other ATers on neotechman's server back in the days. It looks like the success of that game turned every shooter into a regenerating health kinda thing or a military shooter kinda game. I looked a bit and I don't see any more UT style multiplayer shooters on the horizon at all.

I miss those kinds of games too. Unfortunately, gamers at large have made it clear through their purchases that these watered down, semi-realistic shooters are what they want. This has influenced singleplayer games too, and we longer get anything that plays like the original Unreal for example.

I think it's clear why such games have died out over time, especially in multiplayer. The more skill-oriented a game is, the harder it is for people to get into it and the less it sells. We saw this in the past too with 6DOF FPSs like Descent 3. D3 was the ultimate skill-based FPS and allowed the top players to dominate lesser players unlike any other game I have seen, even UT or Q3, and as a result it was never quite as popular and was the last game of its type.

 

[Zenoth]

Isn't Global Agenda supposed to be in the same vein as Unreal Tournament? I've read mixed reviews so far, I myself haven't played it, but I've seen videos of it so far and it doesn't look bad at all. I won't say I'd buy it, I'm still content with UT3 in general, but I wouldn't say I'd turn my back on it if I see some deal for it eventually. But generally speaking, those types of games in my opinion really don't need a "revival" at all, what would we hope for exactly? UT4? We all know that it would end up be a graphics overhaul with the exact same game-play modes, and perhaps one or two "original" modes thrown in that end up not being played as much as those that made their own marks in the past.

In my book UT3 does the job fine, but unfortunately it never sold that much, I think either on PC or consoles, it's just generally not popular enough, and I think it's a shame, I for one like it. In fact I haven't re-installed my UT2004 or even UT99 in months and years respectively, nor do I feel like playing them anyway. And to be honest if some sort of Quake V Arena or UT4 would be announced tomorrow I wouldn't exactly jump in joy, I think that I've spent the couple of past years playing with RTS'es, RPGs, Indie games and some rare adventure games, or perhaps I've just had enough of UT types games, I played them to death, which is probably why I don't look forward to any new ones similar or exactly like that again.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Here's a copy of what I posted in an earlier thread explaining why UT3 was an abject failure.

Why UT3 failed.

As with all UT's, legions of fans were looking forward to it. When the "Beta Demo" which is actually the final Demo, came out in October, the UT99 pro community liked the game play and even anticipated moving to UT3. However, it had some serious problems. The server browser was god-awful--it was featureless and barely functional and you couldn't even add Favorites! The User Interface was also god-awful. It felt clunky, slow, and consolized. Basically, it felt like the game was designed for consoles and then ported over to the PC.

Everyone figured that Epic would fix these things before the final release. Epic didn't and the Retail Release = Beta Demo. The end result? People got word of it and...didn't purchase it! People who did buy it soon lost interest. The game play wasn't all that amazing either. You couldn't throw your empty weapons (upon the game's release), for example and the user interface offered few graphics tweaking options. The server browser was also god-awful for the first few months until it was patched up. (As it stands now, it's not too bad but you still can't call it up easily while your on a server to check for other servers, which took 2 seconds in the earlier UTs, instead you have to disconnect.) You also have to log in to Gamespy so if the Gamespy server is down, you can't play online. The game play itself wasn't all that great. It only had 4 game types--Warfare, Deathmatch, CTF, and vehicle CTF. The colors look washed out, as though it were Gears of War-ified and IMHO, the maps feel a little cluttered with all the eye candy. The CTF movement speed is also about twice as fast as in the original UT99, so you will often die instantly without having had any chance to react to anything, at least much more often than in the Original. They also kept the silly translocator throwing limit in.

Warfare wasn't as much fun as UT 2004's Onslaught and they removed first person view from vehicles, which is a big problem for flying vehicles and the vehicles don't handle well. They also made an awful, console-crowd driven decision to add an invisible vehicle that lays down a mine patch which you cannot destroy. (What where they thinking?) The addition of the Orb is OK and the hoverboard is an improvement. However, overall, UT 2004 is just more fun. The looks are better with the brighter color palette and the vehicle feel much better.

You can pretty much say the same thing for the other two game types. UT99 CTF is much more fun (and more populated overall) than UT3 CTF though UT3 CTF beats UT 2004's hitscan-based CTF. UT99 DM beats up on UT3's DM as well.

Epic's mistake was a failure to copy the feel and game play of the original UT99 exactly as it had been for on-foot-based game types. UT3 doesn't feel too bad really, but the default speed is just too fast. (All they needed was the UT99 movement speed but 10% faster.) They then needed to copy the feel of the UT 2004 game play for Onslaught and Invasion, especially the vehicles. They also needed to add some of the other game types, especially UT99 style Domination, Invasion, and Bombing Run, but that's not what really killed it.

I have also heard that it is harder to run a server for UT3, or at least people had many problems with it at the beginning and you couldn't have a Linux-based server either. Another problem is that producing custom content is much more difficult now. Whereas everything went into a single, coherent folder for UT99 and UT2004, instead they came up with a cockamamie system where maps get "cooked' and where you also have to pay attention to the obligatory Application Data folder. I tend to think that some of this is the influence of consolization. Regardless, the file structure is much more complicated and less-transparent than in the other games.

UT3 had an awful, horrible launch, and whoever made the decision to release it when it was released in the condition it was in should have been fired IMHO. Supposedly, they wanted to get it out the door in time to be on the shelves a couple weeks before Christmas. However, this was a very non-strategic time to release the game since other big title were coming out--Crysis and Team Fortress 2 (and maybe one or two others). That made it an even worse time to release a game that was essentially still in alpha or beta condition. The end result is that UT3 felt like an unfinished, buggy beta console port, so it never built up large player counts online nor much of a fanbase. UT3 was, in essence, a stillborn.

It's too bad because UT3 had potential. They did get a lot of things right with UT3. The overall movement and feel--perhaps the hardest thing to get right--isn't bad at all and the UT99 pro crowd liked it. (I still think the base movement speed is too fast.) I load it up and play a little CTF every couple weeks and when I do, I think to myself, "What a shame."

Did Epic learn anything from this? We'll have to wait and see what UT4 is like if there ever is a UT4. Last I heard, they were shelving the UT series for a while. If they ever release another UT, hopefully they'll go back to the winning formula they had in aspects of UT99 and UT 2004.

 

[CP5670]

UT3 is great in my book just because of the mods available for it. There are a number of very polished mods for it that are more fun and creative than most commercial games these days. A few have even turned into standalone indie titles.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

UT3 is great in my book just because of the mods available for it. There are a number of very polished mods for it that are more fun and creative than most commercial games these days. A few have even turned into standalone indie titles.

Yeah, but if they don't get played in online multiplayer what good are they? Maybe they help make UT3 a better single player game, but they do nothing for multiplayer.

 

[shortylickens]

UT3 is great in my book just because of the mods available for it. There are a number of very polished mods for it that are more fun and creative than most commercial games these days. A few have even turned into standalone indie titles.

Yeah, ummmm, you know theres about 10 times as many mods for 2004 for and 100 times as many for UT?

 

[CP5670]

Yeah, but if they don't get played in online multiplayer what good are they? Maybe they help make UT3 a better single player game, but they do nothing for multiplayer.

They still make it better than 90% of games out there today, even if you only look at it as a singleplayer game. I have in mind not just multiplayer game types, but also the singleplayer-only mods built on that engine such as The Ball or Prometheus.

Yeah, ummmm, you know theres about 10 times as many mods for 2004 for and 100 times as many for UT?

I'm not referring to simple mutators. The mods I mentioned earlier are more like full-blown games in themselves. Now UT99 does have some great singleplayer campaigns for it too (don't know about 2004), but compared to other modern games UT3 still stands out as purely a mod platform.

 

[Saga]

Worst thing that ever happened to FPS games was the console system. Adjusting for terrible joystick controls led to innovations such as slowing down time, auto aiming controls, and unrealistic hitbox and damage.

 

[brblx]

what the hell is an 'unreal style shooter'? is that something like quake? ;P

 

[shortylickens]

Worst thing that ever happened to FPS games was the console system. Adjusting for terrible joystick controls led to innovations such as slowing down time, auto aiming controls, and unrealistic hitbox and damage.

This.

And if those console pussies ever played us online we would destroy them!
Thats why we dont have a cross-platform shooter despite the fact the year is 2010.

 

[Saga]

This.

And if those console pussies ever played us online we would destroy them!
Thats why we dont have a cross-platform shooter despite the fact the year is 2010.

Sadly all it would take to fix this is integrated keyboard and mouse controls on the PS3/360. I genuinely don't know why this hasn't happened, or why it didn't happen in the PS2/XBox era.

My biggest disappointment of all time is being forced to aim in any way first person in a console. It's simply downright frustrating, especially if you play games that have fast-moving small objects; Infamous comes to mind, I enjoyed it to pieces until they started sending those small aerial bots zipping around the screen; it's ridiculous I have to waste an entire energy bar in slow-mo just to hit one of those little fuckers. At one point I almost threw my controller across the room and I have NEVER done that even back to the NES Contra days.

Console FPS players are pathetic as fuck and require handicaps and gimmicks to be competitive. The ONLY console game I can remember having smooth and accurate aiming on was vanilla Halo when I could run around head shotting with the pistol and killing guys half a map away, but I'm sure it was due to some very fluid aim assistance.

 

[sandorski]

UT was the pinnacle of the genre. When it was released we were all blown away by its' sheer awesomeness. Everything since has lacked that impression and due to that the genre has steadily declined. People definitely wanted some more Teamplay than it offered and thus the popularity of CS and the BF series.

DM and CTF will live on, but it will never regain the following it had with UT.

 

[coloumb]

Freakin eh - another "PC gaming is dying post" - PC gaming is nowhere near dying and won't be for a LONG time [yes..I've been to the future - ]. It's only dying if you think the pc gaming platform solely relies upon the success of UT/Quake style games.

If what you see being played during a pro-game event is an indicator - tactical FPS [ie: MW2] are what people want to play - it provides more of a variety and fun than bunny hopping and rocket shooting around an enclosed arena.

 

[BladeVenom]

The only thing I see is that PC gaming is dying fast.

Then you need your eyes checked. Steam is doing great, during a recession they've doubled the number of games they've sold from the previous year.

Hyper fast unrealistic sci-fi shooters just aren't as popular at the moment. I don't if that's a fad, or if they are just too hardcore for the majority of casual gamers nowadays. One or two game titles not doing well doesn't mean the sky falling.

 

[gramboh]

Quake 3 was the pinnacle in my opinion, CPM, arena etc. Pure skill based, amazing movement/jumping, awesome netcode/hit detection. Still fun to play today. 3 friends and I used to spend hours playing q3dm17 instagib railgun, was good practicing for AWPing in CS

I enjoyed a bit of UT but never got into it, prefered Quake 3.

 

[JujuFish]

It's not subjective that UT99 had and still has more people playing it than UT2k4.

It's also not subjective, even from your flawed assertion about 2k4 having more competition.....because that competition would also be competing with existing games like UT99.

Congratulations on missing the point entirely. I said it was a matter of opinion that UT99 was better than UT2004 at CTF, one which I disagreed. WhipperSnapper then tried to tell me I was wrong because the stats make it a matter of objectivity. I merely threw down just a few reasons why the stats are completely irrelevant to the fact that it's an opinion that UT99 was better than UT2004 (in CTF). "Kthxbye"

 

[WhipperSnapper]

UT 2004 CTF is superior or equal to UT99 CTF, right? Is that why UT 2004 CTF servers are pretty much empty today while UT99 CTF is still being played? Is that why you can find active CTF pug match IRC channels for UT99 CTF and not UT 2004 CTF? Is that why there were twenty seasons of Major League UT for UT99 CTF and (I think) zero for UT 2004 CTF?

 

[Aikouka]

UT3 is great in my book just because of the mods available for it. There are a number of very polished mods for it that are more fun and creative than most commercial games these days. A few have even turned into standalone indie titles.

What are some good recommended ones? Maybe I could get some use out of my UT3 Black .

 

[gamerguy2]

UT3 is a cool game. I think the maps feel like they are pretty closed in for such cool graphics and vehicle/gun gameplay.

Recently BF2142. Played for about 12 hours. Just dusted off my disk and played. It was still fun. Some servers had over 50 people. Not nearly as many as when the game first came out.

Anyone play Multiplayer Crisis?

I reinstalled my Crisis game. One of the patches had trouble installing, so I left it alone. There werent a huge number of people playing anyway. Hopefully Crisis2 will be decent. Crisis in NYC sounds fun.