Is the "Unreal style shooter" dead?

[Dark4ng3l]

I was bored a little today and I fired up UT3 and then UT2004 for a little old school deathmatch and it got me thinking. I remember the days when Unreal style( you can include other games like Quake 3, etc) was the bread and butter of PC gaming. I remember how I would come home from school on Friday and play some UT99 for a couple hours to blow off some steam. These days it seems that every game has multiplayer deathmatch but it's just a tacked on feature with like 4 maps to sort of compensate for the fact that recent games have had their single player component erode to the point where 10 hours of gameplay is the norm.

I find it odd that ID never even came out with another pure multiplayer shooter after Quake3. They were the leaders in FPS multiplayer back in the 90s and it's like they completely abandoned it afterwards. Epic came back with UT2003/2004 and that was alright but the vehicle based modes like onslaught were really the big thing in those games. UT3 is pretty much a direct console port. My video card failed a couple weeks ago and I am using a MUCH weaker card but the only real graphics tweak you can make in UT3 is to lower the resolution. If EPIC have pretty much abandoned the PC market I don't think it's a good sign for PC gaming as a whole.

In retrospect I guess most games went into either a more Halo or Counterstrike direction. I remember playing CS for countless hours with other ATers on neotechman's server back in the days. It looks like the success of that game turned every shooter into a regenerating health kinda thing or a military shooter kinda game. I looked a bit and I don't see any more UT style multiplayer shooters on the horizon at all.

The only thing I see is that PC gaming is dying fast. It seems like every game is now a direct console port and nobody plays old school pc shooters on their consoles. The only saving grace to pc gaming is that Blizzard(arguable the best game developper period) makes only PC games. But after D3 and SC2 I don't see any big PC exclusives that are going to be "system sellers" in the future. When game types that don't really work on consoles(like RTS) are jumping ship you know you are in trouble.

So do you guys think PC gaming is going to fall completely flat in the next couple of years or maybe we can see a resurgence if we can get a couple MUSY buy PC exclusives in the near future?

 

[dguy6789]

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[pontifex]

sigh, yet another PC gaming is dying thread...
there are plenty of good PC games out and coming out. sure, its not as good as it used to be, but its far from dead from what I can see.

 

[Maleficus]

PC gaming isn't dying, it's just degenerating into crap games (MMO's, watered down shooters, simplistic RTS games)

as for pure shooters that require skill, yes they are long dead.

 

[quadomatic]

I'm glad you posted this. I'm going to fire up some UT3 now

 

[Udgnim]

PC gaming isn't dying, it's just degenerating into crap games (MMO's, watered down shooters, simplistic RTS games)

as for pure shooters that require skill, yes they are long dead.

this

it's definitely declining

 

[Pacfanweb]

How could it evolve any further? IMO, it doesn't get any better than the original UT....so the only thing further to do is make it look better. I'd be fine with them just remodeling original UT with modern graphics and sound, and leave it mostly as is otherwise....and call that the definitive version of the FPS.

 

[Dumac]

I've never played an Unreal game, so...

 

[Maleficus]

How could it evolve any further? IMO, it doesn't get any better than the original UT....so the only thing further to do is make it look better. I'd be fine with them just remodeling original UT with modern graphics and sound, and leave it mostly as is otherwise....and call that the definitive version of the FPS.

2k4 > UT99

 

[Newbian]

Fire up some CS if you want action.

One of the most played fps at this time still.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Unfortunately, arena-style FPS is pretty dead now. I don't think it's that male gamers suddenly stopped enjoying fast-paced, action-packed shooters. Rather I think it's just that the two gaming studios who were the face of arena-style FPS fucked the duck in various ways.

Why ID never released a real sequel to Quake III, I don't know. Epic Games screwed up first with UT 2003 which was rejected and reviled by a great many UT99 fans. UT 2004 wasn't a bad game in its own right but its UT 2003 floaty-dodgey movement style wasn't very good for on-foot competitive games such as Deathmatch, Capture-the-Flag, Domination, and Bombing Run. (The popular UT 2004 game types are the vehicle based Onslaught and non-competitive Invasion-RPG.) Then with UT3 Epic got the movement for on-foot games right but totally consolized the entire package that surrounded the game play, releasing the game (perhaps under pressure from Midway, the publisher) just in time for Christmas 2007, resulting in a game that felt like a consolized, buggy beta, which pretty much killed the franchise.

So I don't think it's that young males would no longer enjoy arena style FPS and FPS that felt like a competitive athletic cybersport (such as UT99 capture-the-flag clan matches). Rather, I think it's just that the offerings in this area have been substandard. I don't know what's going through ID's head. Epic Games was seduced by the money to be made in the console game market and no longer seems to care about producing high quality PC games for the PC.

I am hoping that someone somewhere at Epic Games remembers the glory of the original Unreal single player adventure FPS game and UT99 and how popular and fun they were and wants to release a single player Unreal sequel and a real UT99-2 designed for the PC. Sadly, I don't think it will ever happen because of consolitus.

<Edit> Based on the Wikipedia entry for id Software, it looks like they are working on a Doom 4 (presumably single player) and a new title called Rage. Who knows if these will be consolized. Neither strikes me as being an arena-style online multiplayer FPS.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

2k4 > UT99

UT 2004 was better than UT99 for Onslaught and Invasion-RPG, which weren't present in UT99. UT99 crushed UT 2004 in the areas of Capture-the-Flag and Domination (which people actually played in UT99). Do note that UT99 was wildly more popular in its day than UT 2004 ever was, which should tell you something. I like both games and think that both games are great, but for different reasons and different game types. Few things compare to the fun of UT99 CTF and Domination though.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I've never played an Unreal game, so...

If you enjoy FPS and want to try it, my recommendation is to get UT 2004 and to play Onslaught (vehicle-based control point type of game) and the non-competitive relaxing shooting gallery type of game Invasion Monster Hunt RPG. You can still find populated servers for both game types. See if you can find an inexpensive copy of the Unreal Anthology (which Gamestop sold for $2 at one point) or UT 2004 ($10 shipped at Newegg last I looked). Who knows, it's possible you could become yet another Invasion-RPG addict.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

How could it evolve any further? IMO, it doesn't get any better than the original UT....so the only thing further to do is make it look better. I'd be fine with them just remodeling original UT with modern graphics and sound, and leave it mostly as is otherwise....and call that the definitive version of the FPS.

I pretty much agree with you. In addition to having modern graphics, I do think that some user interface things could be improved over UT99 such as the addition of built-in voice comm, friends lists, and an improved server browser.

The primary motivation for UT99 fans wanting a real UT99 sequel is to be able to dramatically increase the number of people playing the game online. In other words--we want fresh advertising for the game and to get it back on store shelves, introducing a new generation of players to the timeless game play of Unreal Tournament capture-the-flag. I think that such a sequel should also include Onslaught, Invasion, and Bombing Run as well as a mutator option for server admins to enable UT99 movement or UT 2004 movement.

We had been hoping for this with UT3, but Epic let us down.

 

[NoSoup4You]

Multiplayer FPS's on PC are incredibly popular - MW, MW2, BF:BC2, BF2, TF2, CS:S just to name a few are packed with gamers on pc at the moment. None of them are really what the typical UT/Q3 fan would like though.

I will agree that the UT model is definitely dying, it doesn't appeal to the masses which want slower paced, 'more realistic' games like the Call of Duty series. UT is fast twitch and requires real skill on the mouse/keyboard to be good. CoD requires strong tactics (you might call this 'camping') to do well, no matter how fast you are on the m/k you're dead in an instant if you walk right out into a firefight.

The masses are BAD at gaming, they have slow reflexes and it's easier to learn tactics than it is to learn physical skill. Hence MW2 has been a smash success, even on PC where it's always been in the Steam Top 10 sales list since release. Looking right now it's 3rd on the list, and it's been $60 the entire time. That's dominant.

Before you get the impression I hate MW2, it's the exact opposite. The game is phenomenal and exactly what I like in an FPS. I hate Q3 and UT (I prefer honing my situational awareness rather than nimbleness with a mouse/key). MW2 has outstanding graphics on PC (I have it for X360 as well and it looks like absolute garbage on console) and just overall is a fantastic game.

So I'm not exactly disappointed the UT style FPS is dying. To each their own.

 

[Dark4ng3l]

I also want my goddam ripper back. They took it out because they said it was too spammy or whatever (that and limited the rockets to 3 instead of 6) but the ripper was awesome. What made UT better than quake3 was the awesome weapons.

I think wanting to bring back the old school games won't happen. Ever since Halo/BF1942/UT2003 you need vehicles pretty much or nobody will buy your game. I never understood the point anyways I don't really like vehicles.

 

[JujuFish]

UT99 crushed UT 2004 in the areas of Capture-the-Flag and Domination (which people actually played in UT99).

That's a matter of opinion; I disagree.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

That's a matter of opinion; I disagree.

You can just look at the online multiplayer player counts.

UT99 consistently had much, much higher player counts than UT 2004 did at just about any point in time after the release of each game. UT99 had higher player counts 2 years after its release than UT 2004 did two years after its release. Even today, more people play UT99 CTF online than play UT 2004 CTF online. People play UT99 CTF PUG matches online but not for UT 2004 CTF. UT99 also had far, far more clan match activity than UT 2004 ever did.

It's not merely a matter of subjective opinion, but rather of one player counts and clan match activity.

 

[JujuFish]

You can just look at the online multiplayer player counts.

UT99 consistently had much, much higher player counts than UT 2004 did at just about any point in time after the release of each game. UT99 had higher player counts 2 years after its release than UT 2004 did two years after its release. Even today, more people play UT99 CTF online than play UT 2004 CTF online. People play UT99 CTF PUG matches online but not for UT 2004 CTF. UT99 also had far, far more clan match activity than UT 2004 ever did.

It's not merely a matter of subjective opinion, but rather of one player counts and clan match activity.

Of course it's subjective. Any number of reasons could produce those results. The arena shooter genre itself has been dying for years. The variety of games during UT2k4's release is considerably greater than UT99. The games are different enough that a fan of one is not by necessity a fan of the other. Need I go on?

 

[Maleficus]

UT2k4 had a huge competitive following, it wasn't in CTF though, TDM is where it has always been at. and the movement style of 2k4 added a huge element to the game making it that much faster and more skilled. It added the Z dimension to the game, something lacking in basically every other FPS. When players have freedom of movement in virtually every direction the game becomes immensely more challenging.

 

[JujuFish]

On a side note, my favorite part of UT2K4 was attempting trial maps.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Of course it's subjective. Any number of reasons could produce those results. The arena shooter genre itself has been dying for years. The variety of games during UT2k4's release is considerably greater than UT99. The games are different enough that a fan of one is not by necessity a fan of the other. Need I go on?

So you are conceding my point about player count numbers and clan match activity?

 

[shortylickens]

Domination is MUCH better than Double Domination.

 

[Aikouka]

It looks more like you're starting to see the semi-tactical shooters rise in popularity over the somewhat-unrealistic arena shooters.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Domination is MUCH better than Double Domination.

I miss UT99 DOMination. It was great, wild and crazy, intense fun. I enjoyed playing 3-team Domination at TheGamebox.net server and also in clan matches.