Is the surge working? *Update*

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Fern
Instead of continuing with examples I'll just say if it's from outside sources, I'd seriously consider staying & helping if they asked.

Fern

Since our invasion is the reason outside sources are such a problem I agree that we do have an obligation to help Iraq rid themselves of them.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
And when we leave or scale down the violence will pick up. Do you suggest that we stay there indefinately?

How about if we stay as long as we did in Germany and Japan after WW2?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
And when we leave or scale down the violence will pick up. Do you suggest that we stay there indefinately?

How about if we stay as long as we did in Germany and Japan after WW2?

How about we don't!

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
And when we leave or scale down the violence will pick up. Do you suggest that we stay there indefinately?

How about if we stay as long as we did in Germany and Japan after WW2?

:laugh:

We're still there, so that's an undefined period of time.

I'm not real sure why we're still there, no need for troops amassed in Germany to repel a massive tank-style assualt from the USSR anymore (for a number of reasons, including the USSR doesn't exist anymore and that's outdated warfare tactics).

I'd rather we made their oil irrelevant to us. Then we could ignore them until they grow up and make neat toys, like a BMW or a Playstation

Fern

 

[piasabird]

I do not think the Russians are afraid of the German Army . . . .

Do you really think Germany or the EU could defend itself?

Why did they need the USA to bomb Kosavo?


As much as the EU dislikes the USA they need us. We also need things like our bases in Germany. It would be hard to evacuate wounded and to route supplies without some of our strategic air bases in Europe and places like Japan. If we pulled out of Germany we would lose a key strategic Airbase and a large military hospital.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, Germany and the EU could defend themselves just fine. By the way, I hope you're not implying that you think Russia could successfully invade Germany right now. That's a laugh. Who is going to invade the EU that we are there to defend them from? I'll answer that for you: nobody.

The decision for the US to bomb Kosovo was all politics. They EU needs us as a trading partner, but that's about it.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I do not think the Russians are afraid of the German Army . . . .

Do you really think Germany or the EU could defend itself?

Yeah, they got nukes[/b]

Why did they need the USA to bomb Kosavo?


As much as the EU dislikes the USA they need us. We also need things like our bases in Germany. It would be hard to evacuate wounded and to route supplies without some of our strategic air bases in Europe and places like Japan. If we pulled out of Germany we would lose a key strategic Airbase and a large military hospital.

Good point

 

[tomywishbone]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
And when we leave or scale down the violence will pick up. Do you suggest that we stay there indefinately?

How about if we stay as long as we did in Germany and Japan after WW2?/q]


:laugh: Great comparison... just outstanding! JFC, is it galactically possible to make a more laughable analogy?

Why don't we just drop nuclear bombs... hey, it worked during WWII. Comedy.

 

[ProfJohn]

Bill Kristol weights in with an op-ed on the surge working and the Democrats being stuck in 2006.
Link
Small part of it

But back in Washington, congressional Democrats are still mired in the fall of 2006 and seem determined to be as irresponsible as ever. They're being beaten back--in part thanks to the fighting spirit of stalwart congressional Republicans. Last week, the Senate defeated a resolution that would have restricted the use of U.S. troops in Iraq and set March 31, 2008, as a target date for removing U.S. forces from combat.

On the same day, on a mostly party-line vote, the House Appropriations Committee reported out the Democratic version of a supplemental appropriations bill for the war. It was an odd piece of legislation--an appropriation to fight a war replete with provisions intended to ensure we lose it.

So while the surge is showing evidence of working the Democrats are still planning our withdawal and defeat...


For those of you who keep repeating that this is not a 'real' surge and that we tried this before please read the following:
link (Hey Tomywishbone! This link has a nice picture of a soldier being followed by Iraq kids, must prove that all Iraqi kids love American soldiers huh?)

This "rolling surge" focuses forces on a handful of neighborhoods in Baghdad, and attempts to expand security out from those neighborhoods. . . . A big advantage of a "rolling surge" is that the population and the enemy sense the continuous pressure of ever-increasing forces. Iraqis have not seen such
a prolonged and continuous planned increase of U.S. forces before. . . . The continued, increasing presence of U.S. forces appears to be having an important psychological, as well as practical, effect on the enemy and the people of Iraq. . . . [Meanwhile] in Ramadi, in the belt south of Baghdad stretching from Yusifiyah to Salman Pak, and northeast in Diyala Province, . . . U.S. and Iraqi forces have deprived al Qaeda of the initiative.

 

[catnap1972]

Well GOLLY if Bill Kristol sez it, it simply MUST be TRUE!

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Bill Kristol weights in with an op-ed on the surge working and the Democrats being stuck in 2006.
Link
Small part of it

But back in Washington, congressional Democrats are still mired in the fall of 2006 and seem determined to be as irresponsible as ever. They're being beaten back--in part thanks to the fighting spirit of stalwart congressional Republicans. Last week, the Senate defeated a resolution that would have restricted the use of U.S. troops in Iraq and set March 31, 2008, as a target date for removing U.S. forces from combat.

On the same day, on a mostly party-line vote, the House Appropriations Committee reported out the Democratic version of a supplemental appropriations bill for the war. It was an odd piece of legislation--an appropriation to fight a war replete with provisions intended to ensure we lose it.

So while the surge is showing evidence of working the Democrats are still planning our withdawal and defeat...


For those of you who keep repeating that this is not a 'real' surge and that we tried this before please read the following:
link (Hey Tomywishbone! This link has a nice picture of a soldier being followed by Iraq kids, must prove that all Iraqi kids love American soldiers huh?)

This "rolling surge" focuses forces on a handful of neighborhoods in Baghdad, and attempts to expand security out from those neighborhoods. . . . A big advantage of a "rolling surge" is that the population and the enemy sense the continuous pressure of ever-increasing forces. Iraqis have not seen such
a prolonged and continuous planned increase of U.S. forces before. . . . The continued, increasing presence of U.S. forces appears to be having an important psychological, as well as practical, effect on the enemy and the people of Iraq. . . . [Meanwhile] in Ramadi, in the belt south of Baghdad stretching from Yusifiyah to Salman Pak, and northeast in Diyala Province, . . . U.S. and Iraqi forces have deprived al Qaeda of the initiative.

WTF are you even bringing Bill Kristol into this debate? Do you think, after the past 4 years, he has anything good/credible to say?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Narmer
WTF are you even bringing Bill Kristol into this debate? Do you think, after the past 4 years, he has anything good/credible to say?

Unlike you he gets paid major bucks for what he says and what he thinks, and a lot of people listen to him and his ideas...

oh... and he is right, the surge is showing results, but the Democrats are ignoring that fact.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: catnap1972
Well GOLLY if Bill Kristol sez it, it simply MUST be TRUE!

Well he did say this Administration fscked the Dog in Iraq a few months ago. He was right about that.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: catnap1972
Well GOLLY if Bill Kristol sez it, it simply MUST be TRUE!

Well he did say this Administration fscked the Dog in Iraq a few months ago. He was right about that.

Something about the proverb of the stopped clock being right twice a day comes to mind...

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Narmer
WTF are you even bringing Bill Kristol into this debate? Do you think, after the past 4 years, he has anything good/credible to say?

Unlike you he gets paid major bucks for what he says and what he thinks, and a lot of people listen to him and his ideas...

oh... and he is right, the surge is showing results, but the Democrats are ignoring that fact.

Is that how you judge a man, by how much money he makes or has?

Here's a hint, get someone who has credibility and I'll listen to you.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: catnap1972
Well GOLLY if Bill Kristol sez it, it simply MUST be TRUE!

Well he did say this Administration fscked the Dog in Iraq a few months ago. He was right about that.

Something about the proverb of the stopped clock being right twice a day comes to mind...

Or stating the obvious.

 

[Lemon law]

I totally agree with the contention that William Kristol simply has no credibility. And is totally morally bankrupt to boot. Citing Kristol as a source authority adds no extra glitter to to the question posed in this thread---namely will the surge work or not? Or even more than temporarily slow what has been the four year track record of GWB&co. of continuous deterioration
of the American Iraqi occupation.

But never the less, the citing of William Kristol does speak volumes about the mindsets of any that do think he is credible. And I add my voice to the legions of other who cry out that he has zero credibility with many of us. Who will they cite next?---Ann Coulter springs to mind.----or maybe the ever popular Scooter Fibby---or maybe Dick Cheney.

Bill Kristol is simply another neocon with the same poison pill disease---Long on glittering promises-----and totally bereft of any results to show anyone.---more of a blame shifter---and unwilling to come to grips with the fact that the reason promises came up short was due to the stinking thinking of the original idea.

 

[StageLeft]

Instead we hear very little about killings in Baghdad.

LOL, start going to a real news site, not CNN (no, I don't mean Crocksnews either). I still see endless talk of massive numbers killed in Baghdad. CNN will hide that between talk of Anna N or a cannabis smoking grand mother, though.

 

[Strk]

Using William Kristol is like asking you about Bush or Dave about Republicans.

 

[Moonbeam]

I hope the surge works.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I hope the surge works.

Moonbeams missing in action hope is that the surge working. But who after all does the surge work for is the real good and unanswered question. If the surge was a person--whose interests could it be made to serve, who pays its bills, and how can it be co-opted?

But flash news update from yahoo. The latest republirat talking line is that the democrats are micromanaging the Iraq war, when in fact the surge looks more like a GWB construct to keep the mismanagement of the Iraq war under sole GWB control. But any democrats who dares to complain is more than welcome to any share of the blame. And might as well extend that to all democrats while they are at it.

Yup---thats the reason GWB always fails---its them lousy democrats undermining him every step of the way---regardless if they are in a congressional minority or majority---and when in doubt--blame the democrats. But my sarcasm meter is running overtime---so its time for me to surge out on the next passing comet after drinking more GWB&co koolaid.

 

[tomywishbone]

Do me a favor surge supporters; tell these dead boy's, moms & dads how well the surge is working.

Our leader is a madman.



7 more American troops killed in Iraq By LAUREN FRAYER, Associated Press Writer , 1 hour, 8 minutes ago, Sunday 3/18.

BAGHDAD - The U.S. military on Sunday announced the deaths of seven more troops in Iraq, including four killed by a roadside bomb while patrolling western Baghdad ? the latest American casualties in a monthlong security crackdown in the capital.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: tomywishbone
Do me a favor surge supporters; tell these dead boy's, moms & dads how well the surge is working.

Our leader is a madman.

FOXNews.com - William Kristol - Bio
William Kristol is a political contributor for the FOX News Channel

Kristol and everyone associated with Fox and ProfJohn (I'm sure paid to be ) is a Madman as well.

Donald Trump (who said he can't stand Democrats) really put Bush and his cronies down today.

I wonder what that leaves Trump to support since he said he hates Democrats?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I hope the surge works.

Moonbeams missing in action hope is that the surge working. But who after all does the surge work for is the real good and unanswered question. If the surge was a person--whose interests could it be made to serve, who pays its bills, and how can it be co-opted?

But flash news update from yahoo. The latest republirat talking line is that the democrats are micromanaging the Iraq war, when in fact the surge looks more like a GWB construct to keep the mismanagement of the Iraq war under sole GWB control. But any democrats who dares to complain is more than welcome to any share of the blame. And might as well extend that to all democrats while they are at it.

Yup---thats the reason GWB always fails---its them lousy democrats undermining him every step of the way---regardless if they are in a congressional minority or majority---and when in doubt--blame the democrats. But my sarcasm meter is running overtime---so its time for me to surge out on the next passing comet after drinking more GWB&co koolaid.

You hope the surge fails?

 

[Lemon law]

No Moonbeam---I don't hope the surge fails---there simply is no surge to fail or succeed---we need to come up with 400,000 more non-Iraqi troops to have a real surge.
For now all we have is a new imaginary friend of GWB&co..---the truth will set you free.--be a realist--until the USA can confront and break the power of the militias, all we are doing is stirring a toxic mixture.