Is the next phony "war of terror" going to be on IRAN?

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


Were you one of those that beleived Iraq had WMD's which was the basis of the invasion?

Instead of talking about what I believe, how about we look at what a bunch of Democrats said and believed:
Everyone of these quotes is from 2002 during the lead up to the war. Amazing how all these people seem to forget what they said then.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark Democrat canidate for Presidenton September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton Democrat candidate for President in 2008, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt Democrat candidate for President in September of 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry Democrat candidate for President, Oct 2002

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


Were you one of those that beleived Iraq had WMD's which was the basis of the invasion?

Instead of talking about what I believe, how about we look at what a bunch of Democrats said and believed:
Everyone of these quotes is from 2002 during the lead up to the war. Amazing how all these people seem to forget what they said then.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark Democrat canidate for Presidenton September 26, 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton Democrat candidate for President in 2008, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt Democrat candidate for President in September of 2002

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." -- Ted Kennedy, Sept 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry Democrat candidate for President, Oct 2002

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

That is fine and dandy and I didn't believe the Democrats either about WMD's (in ccomparison to the threat N. Korea and Iran/Syria posed in terms of terrorism and WMDs) However, Bush linked Saddam and 911 which was patently false and then the WMD's came up (when Iran and N. Korea were already in more powerful positions to do us harm). I still haven't heard Bush say it was a mistake to invade Iraq because there was no WMD's and no link to 911 and only recently on tv he said we had 3000 Americans killed (911) so we were in Iraq and the reporter asked what Saddam had with 911 his response "nothing." Propaganda from both parties but especially the Bush administration.

I agree with Bush howerver that right or wrong we must stay the course in Iraq now. We cannot withdrawal and leave the nation in a state of quasi civil war. If we cut and run we waste all the lives given by the Americans to try and bring freedom to the Iraqi people (Saddam was a brutal dictator).

 

[Aimster]

Iran arms Hezbollah

how the hell could a group like Hezbollah knock out helicopters, damage ships, and knock out enemy tanks?

That missile that seriously damaged that Israel warship was Iranian.
The weapons that Hezbollah is using to take out the tanks are most likely from Syria.
The guns Hezbollah is using are from Iran (Iranian made).

Iran is not denying anything.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

That is fine and dandy and I didn't believe the Democrats either about WMD's (in ccomparison to the threat N. Korea and Iran/Syria posed in terms of terrorism and WMDs) However, Bush linked Saddam and 911 which was patently false and then the WMD's came up (when Iran and N. Korea were already in more powerful positions to do us harm). I still haven't heard Bush say it was a mistake to invade Iraq because there was no WMD's and no link to 911 and only recently on tv he said we had 3000 Americans killed (911) so we were in Iraq and the reporter asked what Saddam had with 911 his response "nothing." Propaganda from both parties but especially the Bush administration.

I agree with Bush howerver that right or wrong we must stay the course in Iraq now. We cannot withdrawal and leave the nation in a state of quasi civil war. If we cut and run we waste all the lives given by the Americans to try and bring freedom to the Iraqi people (Saddam was a brutal dictator).

I don't believe that Bush link Sadam and 9-11. I am sure he pointed out, rightfully so, that Sadam had supported terror in the past, but I do not think he ever said that Sadam was involved with 9-11. Of course there is the story that one of the hijakers meet with Iraq secret police, but no one has ever been able to prove that Iraq was actively involved with 9-11. If I am wrong on this then please post me a quote and link to Bush saying Sadam was involved with 9-11.

I believe it is the anti-Bush crowd who pushed this idea, that Bush linked Sadam and 9-11.

Beyond that I agree with you on us having to stay the course in Iraq, as bad as it looks over there. Islamic terrorist look at any withdrawl as a victory, no mater the reasons. Israel withdraws from Gaza, Hamas claims it is a victory for them. The US leave Somalia, the terrorist claim a victory. Isral stops fightin Lebanon and agrees to leave, Hezbollah claims a victory. In every case the withdrawl was based on not wanting to lose more lives than any danger of actually lossing the battle/war.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran arms Hezbollah

how the hell could a group like Hezbollah knock out helicopters, damage ships, and knock out enemy tanks?

That missile that seriously damaged that Israel warship was Iranian.
The weapons that Hezbollah is using to take out the tanks are most likely from Syria.
The guns Hezbollah is using are from Iran (Iranian made).

Iran is not denying anything.

So why are you blaming solely Iran and Syria? Is Russia too powerful to upset?

 

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: michaelpatrick33

That is fine and dandy and I didn't believe the Democrats either about WMD's (in ccomparison to the threat N. Korea and Iran/Syria posed in terms of terrorism and WMDs) However, Bush linked Saddam and 911 which was patently false and then the WMD's came up (when Iran and N. Korea were already in more powerful positions to do us harm). I still haven't heard Bush say it was a mistake to invade Iraq because there was no WMD's and no link to 911 and only recently on tv he said we had 3000 Americans killed (911) so we were in Iraq and the reporter asked what Saddam had with 911 his response "nothing." Propaganda from both parties but especially the Bush administration.

I agree with Bush howerver that right or wrong we must stay the course in Iraq now. We cannot withdrawal and leave the nation in a state of quasi civil war. If we cut and run we waste all the lives given by the Americans to try and bring freedom to the Iraqi people (Saddam was a brutal dictator).

I don't believe that Bush link Sadam and 9-11. I am sure he pointed out, rightfully so, that Sadam had supported terror in the past, but I do not think he ever said that Sadam was involved with 9-11. Of course there is the story that one of the hijakers meet with Iraq secret police, but no one has ever been able to prove that Iraq was actively involved with 9-11. If I am wrong on this then please post me a quote and link to Bush saying Sadam was involved with 9-11.

I believe it is the anti-Bush crowd who pushed this idea, that Bush linked Sadam and 9-11.

Beyond that I agree with you on us having to stay the course in Iraq, as bad as it looks over there. Islamic terrorist look at any withdrawl as a victory, no mater the reasons. Israel withdraws from Gaza, Hamas claims it is a victory for them. The US leave Somalia, the terrorist claim a victory. Isral stops fightin Lebanon and agrees to leave, Hezbollah claims a victory. In every case the withdrawl was based on not wanting to lose more lives than any danger of actually lossing the battle/war.

See the video documentary "The Unauthorized Biography of Dick Cheney". In this we see him on a television talking head political show trying to push a the lie that Saddam had dealings with Al-Qaida before 9-11. The documentary shows Cheney knew it was a lie. And shows Cheney still peddling it to the American people during his buildup to the 2003 USA Military invasion of Iraqi.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran arms Hezbollah

how the hell could a group like Hezbollah knock out helicopters, damage ships, and knock out enemy tanks?

That missile that seriously damaged that Israel warship was Iranian.
The weapons that Hezbollah is using to take out the tanks are most likely from Syria.
The guns Hezbollah is using are from Iran (Iranian made).

Iran is not denying anything.

So why are you blaming solely Iran and Syria? Is Russia too powerful to upset?

Russia doesn't give weapons to Hezbollah.

The weapons Hezbollah have are Iranian made. It is not Russia's fault that Iran can copy their weapons and reproduce them.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran arms Hezbollah

how the hell could a group like Hezbollah knock out helicopters, damage ships, and knock out enemy tanks?

That missile that seriously damaged that Israel warship was Iranian.
The weapons that Hezbollah is using to take out the tanks are most likely from Syria.
The guns Hezbollah is using are from Iran (Iranian made).

Iran is not denying anything.

So why are you blaming solely Iran and Syria? Is Russia too powerful to upset?

Russia doesn't give weapons to Hezbollah.

The weapons Hezbollah have are Iranian made. It is not Russia's fault that Iran can copy their weapons and reproduce them.

If Iran "copied" and "reproduced" Russian weapons, why can't anybody else? If I remember current your are an Iranian defector right?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Additionally, our leaders don't go around dressed in military uniforms.

Excuse me

Mission Accomplished

you knew he meant our Presidents, not just Bush, don't go around ALL THE TIME dressed in military uniforms.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Aimster
Iran arms Hezbollah

how the hell could a group like Hezbollah knock out helicopters, damage ships, and knock out enemy tanks?

That missile that seriously damaged that Israel warship was Iranian.
The weapons that Hezbollah is using to take out the tanks are most likely from Syria.
The guns Hezbollah is using are from Iran (Iranian made).

Iran is not denying anything.

So why are you blaming solely Iran and Syria? Is Russia too powerful to upset?

Russia doesn't give weapons to Hezbollah.

The weapons Hezbollah have are Iranian made. It is not Russia's fault that Iran can copy their weapons and reproduce them.

If Iran "copied" and "reproduced" Russian weapons, why can't anybody else? If I remember current your are an Iranian defector right?

Because Iran's goal is to make 100% of their weapons.

Other nations don't need to spend all their time and money trying to figure out how to reproduce weapons. They simply write a check for more weapons.

Iran cannot buy U.S weapons. They must rely on China and Russia who are sometimes influenced by the U.S.
During the Iran-Iraq War 100% of Iran's inventory was U.S made. U.S blocked parts and as a results the Iranian military turned into a pile of waste. Iran focuses on building their own weapons so they do not need to rely on other nations again.

China for example copies a lot of their weapons. Pakistan does the same thing. Israel does the same thing too. I believe Egypt makes a lot of their own weapons as well. Turkey has a pretty big weapons program.

& no I am not an Iranian defector. I was born in redneck Oklahoma.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: straightalker

See the video documentary "The Unauthorized Biography of Dick Cheney". In this we see him on a television talking head political show trying to push a the lie that Saddam had dealings with Al-Qaida before 9-11. The documentary shows Cheney knew it was a lie. And shows Cheney still peddling it to the American people during his buildup to the 2003 USA Military invasion of Iraqi.

1. "The Unauthorized Biography of Dick Cheney" was created by a leftist Canadian prodcasting company who also made a show called "Stupidity" which implied that Bush was stupid, not exactly a balanced and unbiased source of information.

On the Al-Qaeda and Iraq link.

1. "Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezbollah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq." -- From a Clinton Administration Justice Department indictment on Nov. 4, 1998 Notice the date, before Bush was even president

2. Joe Lieberman: "I want to be real clear about the connection with terrorists. I've seen a lot of evidence on this. There are extensive contacts between Saddam Hussein's government and al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. I never could reach the conclusion that [Saddam] was part of September 11. Don't get me wrong about that. But there was so much smoke there that it made me worry. And you know, some people say with a great facility, al Qaeda and Saddam could never get together. He is secular and they're theological. But there's something that tied them together. It's their hatred of us."

The whole "Iraq had no dealings with Al-Qaida is based on a line in the 9-11 commision report that said it found no evidence "indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States" They never said that there was no conncetion between Iraq and Al-Qaida, just that there was no evidence they worked together on 9-11.

Here are some quotes that point out the ties between Iraq and Al-Qaida.

"Cooperation between the two organizations should be allowed to develop freely through discussion and agreement." -Internal Iraqi Intelligence memo on Iraq-al Qaeda cooperation, June 25, 2004, New York Times

"Abdul Rahman Yasin, a fugitive of the [1993 World Trade Center] attack, is of Iraqi descent, and in 1993, he fled to Iraq with Iraqi assistance." -Senate Intelligence Committee report

"To gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden, the Saudi opposition leader, about the future of our relationship with him, and to achieve a direct meeting with him." -Internal Iraqi Intelligence memo describing the goal of meetings with an al Qaeda envoy, February 19, 1998

"Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden have sealed a pact." -Milan's Corriere della Sera, December 28, 1998, as cited in the Senate Intelligence Committee report, p. 328 Note the date, long before Bush was even president.

In conclusion, there is a lot of evidence that Iraq and Al-Qaida had connections before and after 9-11. Secondly, the accounts of these links existed LONG before Bush became president, which means they were not just dreamt up inorder to "fit" some Bush plan.

People who do not believe that 1. everyone in the world believed that Iraq had stockpiles of WMD before the invasion and 2. there were numerous links between Sadam and terror groups are just living in some anti-Bush dream world where reality and facts do not matter. If I am wrong post some quotes and links to back up your argument.

 

[straightalker]

The only people in the World who do not get it yet that the unConstitutional and illegal war on Iraq was totally based upon lies, are the flag-wavers. They number around 30% from what i've heard of the estimates.

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

A "flag-waver" is in this post defined as a person brought to the bidding of the leaders through the use of the methods of a mass propaganda campaign.

We see and hear it now in all the Neocon's political speeches that are now targeting IRAN as an imminant threat. The Iranians have no intention whatsoever of initiating a surprise sneak nuclear attacking of the USA or our allies the Isreal people. The tensions in the Middle East go back for thousands of years and will never end until time itself ends. This scenario of perpetual hatred between Muslim and Zionist is currently chewing the crap out of my USA troops and i've had enough of the news and pictures of them in body bags or strapped up with artificial limbs.

It's your right to support that BS i guess. But i won't support it. I support the troops by being first of all, caring enough to become knowledgeable about what's really going on.

Our troops belong home preparing for WWIII against Russia and China.

...next.