Is the next phony "war of terror" going to be on IRAN?

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: yllus
Neither Russia or China are our "real foes"

The plan is to in part, help create and also just let the USA, the World's only real barrier against the Communist style of Dictatorship, stumble and walk itself into The Perfect Storm. Then clip our USA Military wings. After that we're finished. America is over. As we have known it. Oh there would be a very strong Resistence. From whats left of the military and the able bodied citizenry. But the winner of WWIII will be the only Nation left with a great advantage in the number of chess pieces left on the table to play with. It will an unfunished game for awhile. This next great World War. The surprise first strike from the Russian/Chinese Alliance, which used a combination of Spetnaz insursion teams equiped with nuclear attack devices and actual ICBM attacks, will be like a chess game just started in which one of the two players hands took a swipe across the playing table and knocked several of their opponants pieces out of play.

The current USA hijacked Government's phony War of Terror opens up the very real possibilities that the above scenario will take place. What can their constant lies achieve for our good and the good health of our Nation? We are all just one more phony 9-11 styled insider job styled terror attack away from total chaos in America. How is that good for our National Defense? Any Nation is strong because the people are strong. Clamping down martial law and turning the USA Military into a Gestapo will just trash and drain America's strength. Our enemies with the thousands of nukes already pointing down on us will sit patiently and wait for the perfect storm.

Now if we had some courageous men, some men who earned the decorations on their uniforms the honorable way, we might stand a great chance of putting the USA on the proper war footing we need to have in the 21st Century. They have to act before it's too late though. And in the meantime, our Country is still nonetheless extremely vulnerable to all of the high risk endeavors of the crazzies who are galavanting around the planet wearing out our Military men and materials in pursuit of their next apparent step of their plan. Nuclear War on Iran. Who will turn that into a war on Islam. The centerpiece of the PERFECT STORM scenario Russia/China first-strike planners are hoping for. It opens up a giant pandora's box of clandestine operation opportunities for them from their perspective. All greatly enhanced by our present wide open borders and open society. Chaos like martial law only increases their Spetnaz's ability to become a chameleon in our midst and for instance, decapitate our Government in Washington DC and elsewhere.

A 100 year war on terror is a neocon con-game. Peace and a healthy productive population in America with less global interventionism is the real best defense against both terror and warz. With courageous strong honorable leaders this can be achieved. To such an extent all our wannabe foes will understand the one and only thing they understand. Their assured destruction if they ever launch a hostile nuke in our direction. Or set one off under our feet.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If Iran is attacked in anyways, I will be convinced that Bush wants to restart the crusades. Iran has done nothing wrong.

Head Buried In The Sand has a new definition.

Instead of relaying what your dictators have told you why don't you link up some proof where Iran has in threatened America. Even China claims the right to Taiwan the same way Iran claims the right to Israel. Whats the difference?

Difference is a zealotry that dictates to its faithful to blow themselves up to achieve a goal. Now they have, this week, started a nuclear reactor that produces plutonium. A pound of which would forever radiate a city killing anyone within.

China, however against us with Taiwan, already has nuclear weapons enough to destroy many countries. We have no choice but to rely on Mutual Assured Destruction as the only precaution with them. It?s fairly damn obvious why we cannot do anything about them.

You wish to buy Iran time so they it gains the same status. It will become powerful enough to protect the entire Middle East through blackmail. What perhaps you haven?t factored into is their publicly stated mandate to destroy Israel and her allies, or perhaps you have and just don?t care about nuclear war. This war with Iran must be stopped from reaching that point.

I frankly do not beleive that Iran will ever attack Israel (They same way you beleive Israel will never use its nuclear weapons first) . They aren't naive enough to cause their entire country to be blown up. The problem is Israel who is calling for a regime change in Iran (which effectively means destruction of a country eg Iraq and Afghanistan). If they can aqquire nukes they can permanently protect themselves from Israel.

Besides, there is no proof of Iran trying to aquire nuuclear weapons.

The same was said of North Korea, we know how that turned out.

So you?re having it both ways. Iran with nukes is peaceful, and Iran doesn?t want nukes. Is producing plutonium from its heavy water nuclear reactor for energy purposes? Everyone apparently overlooks that Iran has plenty of energy from its own oil.

I know you call Hizbollah freedom fighters, so I cannot expect you do ever waiver in their defense, but do note the results of if they succeed Green Bean. Nuclear retaliation for such an attack will not be dismayed because you can claim independence of the nation which handed your freedom fighters plutonium.

Sadly, I have to agree there is no solution to this conflict. Nukes with Hezbollah would be a definate disaster. Israel should release or Lebanense, Palestenian and Syrian prisoners and free threre land. They should then build a wall around their international borders to prevent terrorist attacks. They have no right to expand settlements into Gaza, the west Bank or Syria. If they are attacked after that, then I would support Israeli military action. But ATM, its just agression.

Whats the problem in building a wall around Israel?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If Iran is attacked in anyways, I will be convinced that Bush wants to restart the crusades. Iran has done nothing wrong.

Head Buried In The Sand has a new definition.

Instead of relaying what your dictators have told you why don't you link up some proof where Iran has in threatened America. Even China claims the right to Taiwan the same way Iran claims the right to Israel. Whats the difference?

Difference is a zealotry that dictates to its faithful to blow themselves up to achieve a goal. Now they have, this week, started a nuclear reactor that produces plutonium. A pound of which would forever radiate a city killing anyone within.

China, however against us with Taiwan, already has nuclear weapons enough to destroy many countries. We have no choice but to rely on Mutual Assured Destruction as the only precaution with them. It?s fairly damn obvious why we cannot do anything about them.

You wish to buy Iran time so they it gains the same status. It will become powerful enough to protect the entire Middle East through blackmail. What perhaps you haven?t factored into is their publicly stated mandate to destroy Israel and her allies, or perhaps you have and just don?t care about nuclear war. This war with Iran must be stopped from reaching that point.

I frankly do not beleive that Iran will ever attack Israel (They same way you beleive Israel will never use its nuclear weapons first) . They aren't naive enough to cause their entire country to be blown up. The problem is Israel who is calling for a regime change in Iran (which effectively means destruction of a country eg Iraq and Afghanistan). If they can aqquire nukes they can permanently protect themselves from Israel.

Besides, there is no proof of Iran trying to aquire nuuclear weapons.

They already are through Hizbollah. Next upto bat is a nuclear device launched from Lebanon into Israel wiping out an entire city.

If you truely believe Iran developes nuclear technology to safeguard itself from Israel that is hilarious. Israel has no route to invade Iran and has a population a fraction of the size.

You really buy into your dictators words and ask for more dont you?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If Iran is attacked in anyways, I will be convinced that Bush wants to restart the crusades. Iran has done nothing wrong.

Head Buried In The Sand has a new definition.

Instead of relaying what your dictators have told you why don't you link up some proof where Iran has in threatened America. Even China claims the right to Taiwan the same way Iran claims the right to Israel. Whats the difference?

Difference is a zealotry that dictates to its faithful to blow themselves up to achieve a goal. Now they have, this week, started a nuclear reactor that produces plutonium. A pound of which would forever radiate a city killing anyone within.

China, however against us with Taiwan, already has nuclear weapons enough to destroy many countries. We have no choice but to rely on Mutual Assured Destruction as the only precaution with them. It?s fairly damn obvious why we cannot do anything about them.

You wish to buy Iran time so they it gains the same status. It will become powerful enough to protect the entire Middle East through blackmail. What perhaps you haven?t factored into is their publicly stated mandate to destroy Israel and her allies, or perhaps you have and just don?t care about nuclear war. This war with Iran must be stopped from reaching that point.

I frankly do not beleive that Iran will ever attack Israel (They same way you beleive Israel will never use its nuclear weapons first) . They aren't naive enough to cause their entire country to be blown up. The problem is Israel who is calling for a regime change in Iran (which effectively means destruction of a country eg Iraq and Afghanistan). If they can aqquire nukes they can permanently protect themselves from Israel.

Besides, there is no proof of Iran trying to aquire nuuclear weapons.

They already are through Hizbollah. Next upto bat is a nuclear device launched from Lebanon into Israel wiping out an entire city.

If you truely believe Iran developes nuclear technology to safeguard itself from Israel that is hilarious. Israel has no route to invade Iran and has a population a fraction of the size.

You really buy into your dictators words and ask for more dont you?

Israel may not be planning an invasion but the US is. And everybody knows Israel is like USA's 51st state. There is no proof Iran is arming Hezbollah. It has denied that.

Iran is not my country and Ahmednajjad is not my president.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If Iran is attacked in anyways, I will be convinced that Bush wants to restart the crusades. Iran has done nothing wrong.

Head Buried In The Sand has a new definition.

Instead of relaying what your dictators have told you why don't you link up some proof where Iran has in threatened America. Even China claims the right to Taiwan the same way Iran claims the right to Israel. Whats the difference?

Difference is a zealotry that dictates to its faithful to blow themselves up to achieve a goal. Now they have, this week, started a nuclear reactor that produces plutonium. A pound of which would forever radiate a city killing anyone within.

China, however against us with Taiwan, already has nuclear weapons enough to destroy many countries. We have no choice but to rely on Mutual Assured Destruction as the only precaution with them. It?s fairly damn obvious why we cannot do anything about them.

You wish to buy Iran time so they it gains the same status. It will become powerful enough to protect the entire Middle East through blackmail. What perhaps you haven?t factored into is their publicly stated mandate to destroy Israel and her allies, or perhaps you have and just don?t care about nuclear war. This war with Iran must be stopped from reaching that point.

I frankly do not beleive that Iran will ever attack Israel (They same way you beleive Israel will never use its nuclear weapons first) . They aren't naive enough to cause their entire country to be blown up. The problem is Israel who is calling for a regime change in Iran (which effectively means destruction of a country eg Iraq and Afghanistan). If they can aqquire nukes they can permanently protect themselves from Israel.

Besides, there is no proof of Iran trying to aquire nuuclear weapons.

The same was said of North Korea, we know how that turned out.

So you?re having it both ways. Iran with nukes is peaceful, and Iran doesn?t want nukes. Is producing plutonium from its heavy water nuclear reactor for energy purposes? Everyone apparently overlooks that Iran has plenty of energy from its own oil.

I know you call Hizbollah freedom fighters, so I cannot expect you do ever waiver in their defense, but do note the results of if they succeed Green Bean. Nuclear retaliation for such an attack will not be dismayed because you can claim independence of the nation which handed your freedom fighters plutonium.

Sadly, I have to agree there is no solution to this conflict. Nukes with Hezbollah would be a definate disaster. Israel should release or Lebanense, Palestenian and Syrian prisoners and free threre land. They should then build a wall around their international borders to prevent terrorist attacks. They have no right to expand settlements into Gaza, the west Bank or Syria. If they are attacked after that, then I would support Israeli military action. But ATM, its just agression.

Whats the problem in building a wall around Israel?

A noble idea really, I can see where you're coming from.

My problem with a wall is that, walls can only protect so much. The average gunmen would no longer cross over as easily as crossing an open field, but defensives always have methods of circumventing them. Short range missiles or rockets, for example, would not be prevented by a wall.

You could always just walk around it, or dig under it, climb over it, or blow it up. So while it helps, it's not an end all solution - especially in today's world.

It is a far reaching thing to aspire to, for both sides to back down and for there to be peace. This might be attainable if we did not fear nuclear technology, and if Iran were more cooperative with the international community. Would large scale UN inspectors really hurt a peaceful nuclear operation? They'd be a large gesture into forcing us to back down.

My belief in this situation is Iraq and North Korea made Iran bold enough to do whatever they like. They've learned that our military is incompetent against guerilla warfare, and they learned the steps involved in completely blocking action by the UN. This leaves us no good options on the table for countering their moves.

The idea that they are peaceful and only intend defense, in light of such publicly proclaimed zealous fury is something I find difficult to believe. Especially in light of historic attempts at attaining peace such as ?Peace For Our Time? which proved the possible results.

Aggressive action would not be as it was in the past; there would be no Iranian army conquering a country. Instead, it would be Hizbollah or some other covert agents launching an intelligent and well designed plan. Nuclear weapons or dirty bombs are just the sort of device to make such a plan work best. 10-20 of those happening would cause more damage than any conventional invasion ever would.

This is my concern, and this is the prospect which causes me to never want nuclear technology to spread to hostiles unless there is a solid amount of control and protection over it by the UN.

 

[laFiera]

Originally posted by: yllus
Neither Russia or China are our "real foes", you twit. They're both enormously invested in the greater Western economic sphere, and only an idiot kills or endangers his biggest customers. Russia and China are not led by idiots. Simple fact: War is bad for business.

More simple facts: Iraq has a population of about 26 million people. Iran has a population of 68 million people. You think the U.S. military or those who lead it would actually advocate attacking a country 3x the size of one that's already giving them fits? There is not a chance in hell that any strike spearheaded by the United States will occur in Iran in the next half century.

One last simple fact: Crack is bad for you. Stop smoking it!

what? war is bad for business?
whose business?
haliburton for example can't say war is bad for business....

Halliburton announced on Friday that its KBR division, responsible for carrying out Pentagon contracts, experienced a 284 percent increase in operating profits during the second quarter of this year. (july 2005)

and you call others twits...

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: straightalker

Originally posted by: yllus
Neither Russia or China are our "real foes"

The plan is to in part, help create and also just let the USA, the World's only real barrier against the Communist style of Dictatorship, stumble and walk itself into The Perfect Storm. Then clip our USA Military wings. After that we're finished. America is over. As we have known it. Oh there would be a very strong Resistence. From whats left of the military and the able bodied citizenry. But the winner of WWIII will be the only Nation left with a great advantage in the number of chess pieces left on the table to play with. It will an unfunished game for awhile. This next great World War. The surprise first strike from the Russian/Chinese Alliance, which used a combination of Spetnaz insursion teams equiped with nuclear attack devices and actual ICBM attacks, will be like a chess game just started in which one of the two players hands took a swipe across the playing table and knocked several of their opponants pieces out of play.

The current USA hijacked Government's phony War of Terror opens up the very real possibilities that the above scenario will take place. What can their constant lies achieve for our good and the good health of our Nation? We are all just one more phony 9-11 styled insider job styled terror attack away from total chaos in America. How is that good for our National Defense? Any Nation is strong because the people are strong. Clamping down martial law and turning the USA Military into a Gestapo will just trash and drain America's strength. Our enemies with the thousands of nukes already pointing down on us will sit patiently and wait for the perfect storm.

Now if we had some courageous men, some men who earned the decorations on their uniforms the honorable way, we might stand a great chance of putting the USA on the proper war footing we need to have in the 21st Century. They have to act before it's too late though. And in the meantime, our Country is still nonetheless extremely vulnerable to all of the high risk endeavors of the crazzies who are galavanting around the planet wearing out our Military men and materials in pursuit of their next apparent step of their plan. Nuclear War on Iran. Who will turn that into a war on Islam. The centerpiece of the PERFECT STORM scenario Russia/China first-strike planners are hoping for. It opens up a giant pandora's box of clandestine operation opportunities for them from their perspective. All greatly enhanced by our present wide open borders and open society. Chaos like martial law only increases their Spetnaz's ability to become a chameleon in our midst and for instance, decapitate our Government in Washington DC and elsewhere.

A 100 year war on terror is a neocon con-game. Peace and a healthy productive population in America with less global interventionism is the real best defense against both terror and warz. With courageous strong honorable leaders this can be achieved. To such an extent all our wannabe foes will understand the one and only thing they understand. Their assured destruction if they ever launch a hostile nuke in our direction. Or set one off under our feet.

LOL... the surprise first strike from the Russian/Chinese Alliance, which used a combination of Spetnaz insursion teams equiped with nuclear attack devices and actual ICBM attacks! That alone made reading the utter rubbish you wrote worthwhile.

All that, and you effectively said nothing. No proof. No reasoning. Just "after that we're finished." Communism is going to take over, just like that. Because China and Russia, despite actually not caring much for each other at all, are secretly working together and planning our demise.

You are, in fact, an idiot.

Originally posted by: laFiera
what? war is bad for business?
whose business?
haliburton for example can't say war is bad for business....

Halliburton announced on Friday that its KBR division, responsible for carrying out Pentagon contracts, experienced a 284 percent increase in operating profits during the second quarter of this year. (july 2005)

and you call others twits...

Yeah, sorry if I don't buy into the rather specious idea that war is good because all of ten companies gain at the loss of everyone else.

 

[straightalker]

My enquiry to your consumption of crack cocaine was wholly heartfelt. You see, I play a caring doctor type on TV.

The evidence you yourself provided indicates you have aquired some serious dimentia from an overdose of watching a certain television series about Hosptials. Was it 'E.R'., or are you watching reruns of 'Dr. Kildare'? Are you Richard Chamberlain in your mind?

About your vitriolic attacks on the Forum...

It's called FLAMING when you call other posters on the AT Forums cocaine addicts. I've never touched that stuff nor do i put into my body any drug whatsoever. You just accuse. Not that it even bothers me that much. It's just that your foolish gibberish is obstructing good conversations. Take a look around. We may have a few pranksters like you but overall it's a well informed steadily growing community here.

 

[yllus]

You're rambling on about Spetnaz "insursion" teams equipped with dogs with bees in their mouths and sharks with frickin' laser beams, but I'm the one with dementia. This Russese (Chissian?) Alliance will, after nuking our major urban centers to render the entire continent unusable, no doubt use our now-mutated descendants as slave labourers whom only need to be fed once a fortnight. Of course, the fact that the only successful parts of either country's economy are intensely capitalistic and that their governments realize that is completely lost on you.

The fact that you took what I wrote about drugs seriously is hysterical in itself.

 

[straightalker]

Originally posted by: yllus
You're rambling on about Spetnaz "insursion" teams equipped with dogs with bees in their mouths and sharks with frickin' laser beams, but I'm the one with dementia. This Russese (Chissian?) Alliance will, after nuking our major urban centers to render the entire continent unusable, no doubt use our now-mutated descendants as slave labourers whom only need to be fed once a fortnight. Of course, the fact that the only successful parts of either country's economy are intensely capitalistic and that their governments realize that is completely lost on you.

The fact that you took what I wrote about drugs seriously is hysterical in itself.

Try an oxygen ventilator yllus. You're blue in the face and starving your braincells. You still have not explained how it is that you are a television actor playing a doctor.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: straightalker

Originally posted by: yllus
You're rambling on about Spetnaz "insursion" teams equipped with dogs with bees in their mouths and sharks with frickin' laser beams, but I'm the one with dementia. This Russese (Chissian?) Alliance will, after nuking our major urban centers to render the entire continent unusable, no doubt use our now-mutated descendants as slave labourers whom only need to be fed once a fortnight. Of course, the fact that the only successful parts of either country's economy are intensely capitalistic and that their governments realize that is completely lost on you.

The fact that you took what I wrote about drugs seriously is hysterical in itself.

Try an oxygen ventilator yllus. You're blue in the face and starving your braincells. You still have not explained how it is that you are a television actor playing a doctor.

:laugh: Quoted for hilarity!

 

[silverdj]

I think that if Iran gets involved with us, we are going to be in a poop storm. I haven't heard of a good reason on why we should attack anyone yet. We know that Bush just wanted to get Iraq's oil, since there weren't any good explanations on any other reason that we invaded them. I think we should just sit back and keep a close eye on everyone, and see what we can come up with. All I know is that we need the UN support on any other adventure we decide to go on. I just wish that people would start thinking about trying to fix home before we go and conquer the rest of the world. There are too many people in the US that need help, just as bad as anyone in the ME or where ever. Man I wish that I could be president!

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


Israel may not be planning an invasion but the US is. And everybody knows Israel is like USA's 51st state. There is no proof Iran is arming Hezbollah. It has denied that.

Iran is not my country and Ahmednajjad is not my president.

You must be the only person on the planet who beleives that Iran is not arming Hezbollah.

Do you actually believe Iran when it denies arming Hezbollah??

Here's a hint that Iran is lying.... the missle that hit the Israeli warship was made in Iran, Hezbollah can't make radar guided missiles, they can't make any missiles at all.

How can you be so a) stupid or b)nieve. ?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: straightalker Edited for length by ProfJohn



So the question is. Do we let ourselves become so psyopted by the phony"war of terror" that we loose WWIII?

Tell me something straighttalker...

Was it a "phony" war on terro when Bill Clinton ordered attacks on Iraq on December 16, 1998?

"Saddam (Hussein) must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons," Clinton said.

"Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors," said Clinton.

"The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people," Clinton said.

Looks like Bush was just following Clinton's advice on creating a new Iraqi government.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If Iran is attacked in anyways, I will be convinced that Bush wants to restart the crusades. Iran has done nothing wrong.

Head Buried In The Sand has a new definition.

Instead of relaying what your dictators have told you why don't you link up some proof where Iran has in threatened America. Even China claims the right to Taiwan the same way Iran claims the right to Israel. Whats the difference?

Someone who lives in Pakistan, according to profile, is talking about our dictators? I guess you don't relieze unlike your country our leaders are elected by the people. Additionally, our leaders don't go around dressed in military uniforms.

Tell me green bean, does Israel have the right to exist, or should it be "eliminated" as the president of Iraq has said?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: straightalker

I'm for a very strong military. Actually very much stronger than the weakly led military we have now. Led by a new crop of perfumed prince generals who are shameless YesMen. They are running our strength into the ground and busting our troop morale in the greedy Military Industrial Complex game. This is not a game and our soldiers are not pawns. If we get weak we get crushed by our real foes. Russia and China. Both of whom are rapidly gearing up right now to annihilate the USA in the next terrible global war.

Meanwhile, Russia, now the World's single largest oil producing Nation, has payed off all it's debts and is flush with cash from the spike in crude oil prices. Together with China they are in a military alliance and are definitely in massive preparations to defeat the USA in the next global war.

I therefore see the future combined USA Middle East war on Iraq/Afghanistan/Iran as a huge tactical mistake. And an eventually even much greater collasal military blunder. In the next few years, as the USA declines in strength and Rusiia/China strengthens both militarily and economically(thanks to the spike in oil prices caused by the Middle East conflict) they will deploy more troops and war material than we can deal with. Underground they are building a massive bunker system in preparation for war with the USA.

So the question is. Do we let ourselves become so psyopted by the phony"war of terror" that we loose WWIII? The USA is actually over 40 trillion in debt. Russian and China are out of debt and surging forward. The USA military is being run into the ground. Both man and machine. Russian and China are expanding at a record pace. Economically and military. The Russian people may appear to still be poor, but don't be fooled. It is a brutal Dictatorship there that is funneling all it can into war production. Russia is a very long term strategist. Eventual war with the USA is their military strategy.

You have one HUGE problem with your whole premise, besides its straight from a Tom Clancy book fantasy ideas.

Russia is barely spending any money on its military. In 2005 it spent all of 528 billion rubles on its military, sounds impresive until you relieze that 528 billion rubles is all of $18 billion US dollars.

Our own department of defense is going to spend $419 billion this year.

$18 billion v $419 billion... I don't know about you, but I am really starting to worry about the Russian military now.

Let's not also forget that Russia and China have a very long history or not trusting each other, which is why they never worked together during the cold war despite them both being communist contries.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Additionally, our leaders don't go around dressed in military uniforms.

Excuse me

Mission Accomplished

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Additionally, our leaders don't go around dressed in military uniforms.

Excuse me

Mission Accomplished

Oh please... Bush dressed as a pilot is not going around in a military uniform, especially compared to General Pervez Musharraf leader of Pakistan... heck he even has General in his title. BTW Musharraf is also "Cheif of Army Staff"

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Additionally, our leaders don't go around dressed in military uniforms.

Excuse me

Mission Accomplished

Oh please... Bush dressed as a pilot is not going around in a military uniform, especially compared to General Pervez Musharraf leader of Pakistan... heck he even has General in his title. BTW Musharraf is also "Cheif of Army Staff"

Bush sets case as 'war president'

 

[laFiera]

Originally posted by: yllus
and you call others twits...

Yeah, sorry if I don't buy into the rather specious idea that war is good because all of ten companies gain at the loss of everyone else.[/quote]

hmmmm.......not that i'm an economist or financial guru, but i don't see a steady downward trend on that chart in the last 5 years since we started the war on terror....if anything, it goes up and down up and down, and from 2003 til the present , it seems to be on an upward trend. And as far as i'm concerned the 'war on terror' as of today is still in effect. So go ahead and explain to me how that is a loss to everyone else.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
If Iran is attacked in anyways, I will be convinced that Bush wants to restart the crusades. Iran has done nothing wrong.

Head Buried In The Sand has a new definition.

Instead of relaying what your dictators have told you why don't you link up some proof where Iran has in threatened America. Even China claims the right to Taiwan the same way Iran claims the right to Israel. Whats the difference?

Difference is a zealotry that dictates to its faithful to blow themselves up to achieve a goal. Now they have, this week, started a nuclear reactor that produces plutonium. A pound of which would forever radiate a city killing anyone within.

China, however against us with Taiwan, already has nuclear weapons enough to destroy many countries. We have no choice but to rely on Mutual Assured Destruction as the only precaution with them. It?s fairly damn obvious why we cannot do anything about them.

You wish to buy Iran time so they it gains the same status. It will become powerful enough to protect the entire Middle East through blackmail. What perhaps you haven?t factored into is their publicly stated mandate to destroy Israel and her allies, or perhaps you have and just don?t care about nuclear war. This war with Iran must be stopped from reaching that point.

I frankly do not beleive that Iran will ever attack Israel (They same way you beleive Israel will never use its nuclear weapons first) . They aren't naive enough to cause their entire country to be blown up. The problem is Israel who is calling for a regime change in Iran (which effectively means destruction of a country eg Iraq and Afghanistan). If they can aqquire nukes they can permanently protect themselves from Israel.

Besides, there is no proof of Iran trying to aquire nuuclear weapons.

The same was said of North Korea, we know how that turned out.

So you?re having it both ways. Iran with nukes is peaceful, and Iran doesn?t want nukes. Is producing plutonium from its heavy water nuclear reactor for energy purposes? Everyone apparently overlooks that Iran has plenty of energy from its own oil.

I know you call Hizbollah freedom fighters, so I cannot expect you do ever waiver in their defense, but do note the results of if they succeed Green Bean. Nuclear retaliation for such an attack will not be dismayed because you can claim independence of the nation which handed your freedom fighters plutonium.

Sadly, I have to agree there is no solution to this conflict. Nukes with Hezbollah would be a definate disaster. Israel should release or Lebanense, Palestenian and Syrian prisoners and free threre land. They should then build a wall around their international borders to prevent terrorist attacks. They have no right to expand settlements into Gaza, the west Bank or Syria. If they are attacked after that, then I would support Israeli military action. But ATM, its just agression.

Whats the problem in building a wall around Israel?

A noble idea really, I can see where you're coming from.

My problem with a wall is that, walls can only protect so much. The average gunmen would no longer cross over as easily as crossing an open field, but defensives always have methods of circumventing them. Short range missiles or rockets, for example, would not be prevented by a wall.

You could always just walk around it, or dig under it, climb over it, or blow it up. So while it helps, it's not an end all solution - especially in today's world.

It is a far reaching thing to aspire to, for both sides to back down and for there to be peace. This might be attainable if we did not fear nuclear technology, and if Iran were more cooperative with the international community. Would large scale UN inspectors really hurt a peaceful nuclear operation? They'd be a large gesture into forcing us to back down.

My belief in this situation is Iraq and North Korea made Iran bold enough to do whatever they like. They've learned that our military is incompetent against guerilla warfare, and they learned the steps involved in completely blocking action by the UN. This leaves us no good options on the table for countering their moves.

The idea that they are peaceful and only intend defense, in light of such publicly proclaimed zealous fury is something I find difficult to believe. Especially in light of historic attempts at attaining peace such as ?Peace For Our Time? which proved the possible results.

Aggressive action would not be as it was in the past; there would be no Iranian army conquering a country. Instead, it would be Hizbollah or some other covert agents launching an intelligent and well designed plan. Nuclear weapons or dirty bombs are just the sort of device to make such a plan work best. 10-20 of those happening would cause more damage than any conventional invasion ever would.

This is my concern, and this is the prospect which causes me to never want nuclear technology to spread to hostiles unless there is a solid amount of control and protection over it by the UN.

There was a documentary on the Berlin war I was watching. It was so well protected that when it was made, there was virtually no way anybody could cross it. It would take a few thousand soldiers to guard it but with American funding thats no problem.

Some more reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_wall

With a wall, the reasons given for attacking each other will be nullified. If someone attacks after that, he would be the agressor and I would support a war against him. I certainly have lost trust in the CIA after what they said about Iraq. Labelling Iran as a threat is just an easy way to conquer it.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: The Green Bean


Israel may not be planning an invasion but the US is. And everybody knows Israel is like USA's 51st state. There is no proof Iran is arming Hezbollah. It has denied that.

Iran is not my country and Ahmednajjad is not my president.

You must be the only person on the planet who beleives that Iran is not arming Hezbollah.

Do you actually believe Iran when it denies arming Hezbollah??

Here's a hint that Iran is lying.... the missle that hit the Israeli warship was made in Iran, Hezbollah can't make radar guided missiles, they can't make any missiles at all.

How can you be so a) stupid or b)nieve. ?

Were you one of those that beleived Iraq had WMD's which was the basis of the invasion?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: laFiera

Originally posted by: yllus
Yeah, sorry if I don't buy into the rather specious idea that war is good because all of ten companies gain at the loss of everyone else.

hmmmm.......not that i'm an economist or financial guru, but i don't see a steady downward trend on that chart in the last 5 years since we started the war on terror....if anything, it goes up and down up and down, and from 2003 til the present , it seems to be on an upward trend. And as far as i'm concerned the 'war on terror' as of today is still in effect. So go ahead and explain to me how that is a loss to everyone else.

The need to crawl back for five years to where we once already were seems rather lost on you. This was the effect of one single day of attacks in North America. Five years of recovery.

What Happens if Terrorism Strikes the U.S. Again?

The terrorist bombings in London on July 7, 2005 provide us with some insight as to how the financial markets might be expected to react in the event of a major terrorist attack in the U.S. London obviously is the heart of the UK, as well as the financial center of Europe, so the impact was significant, just as a major incident in a leading U.S. city would be.

Crude oil futures initially plunged more than $4 per barrel, nearly 7%, in overnight trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange's ACCESS system on news of multiple explosions and fatalities during London's morning rush hour. It's worth noting that after the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York City, oil prices fell almost 40%.

Stocks were down sharply initially on the news of terrorism in London but recovered most of their losses by the end of the day. The Dow Jones Industrial Average was down more than 220 points in overnight futures trading, before regular morning equities trading began, but the market actually rallied back to close up 32 points by the end of the day. European markets saw heavy losses in early trading, too, but managed to finish the day with less severe declines. Down nearly 4% at one point, London's FTSE 100 index closed down 1.4%. Had the attacks been on a larger scale or had they been something on the level of a biological attack or dirty bomb, stock index futures might have fallen more sharply and might not have recovered.

Gold and U.S. Treasury bond futures jumped on initial reports of the bombings. These are traditionally considered "safe-haven" investments and often benefit from unsettling world news. In the interest rate sector, investors began buying sovereign debt as a safe harbor for funds as news of the attacks spread. Flows were concentrated in shorter securities, such as the two-year T-Note. As the shock gradually faded throughout the day and markets were able to make a more rational assessment of the possible long-term impact of the attacks, both gold and interest rate futures gave back most or all of their gains - in fact, gold actually finished down on the day. Again, however, it should be noted that if the attacks had come as more of a surprise - or if they had a more lasting impact on society and the world economy - gold and interest rate futures might very well have continued to rally

As of late, the 'war on terror' is barely worth a five minute news segment on TV for 95% of those who live in North America. Life at home is really quite normal once again. This is not the war I'm talking about. I'm talking about full-out war in Mr. Clanc...er, straightalker's terms. Russia and China may be run by ruthless bastards, but they're also very sensible when it comes to keeping their hides intact. War means price fixing. Steel, oil, wood. Promissary notes from the government. Government intervention in selling to customers overseas. Routes of shipment being blocked or at least interdicted. Notice how all these things mean greater government involvement in the economy? Do you recall a time where greater government meddling paid off by improving the market? I don't.

That's not even beginning to take into account what mass swaths of customers who will pull out of the economy for fear of needing their money for strictly the essentials, those who simply get killed or are drafted into the military, or whom are too penniless through loss of property to buy product.

 

[Zebo]

There's is nothing phoney about Irans Terror. From the hostage taking in 1979 to recent wars in lebabnon Iran its reconized by every analyst of all political persusasions including the state department and Democrats as the #1 sponsor of terror in the world. Problem is Bush spent his load so to speak in watseful, benign and fuitless Iraq and USA no longer enjoys international trust nor can build a coalition to confront the real threat. This is yet another chapter of what Gen. Zinni meant by the Iraq war was "the greatest stratgegic disaster in our history". This deadline will invariably be followed by another deadline and another and by another and will play out over five years until Iran annouces it has nuke warheads. Bye Bye Israel.

 

[conehead433]

The current flavor of the fake war on terror is already in progress. Plane after plane after plane making forced landings because of supposed suspicious behavior or fake bomb threats, etc., ad nauseum. The current government in power protecting you the American citizen from attacks every day. Guess they gave up on the other types of fake terror threats and the color coded threat game.