Is the Mormon religion a cult?

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

Originally posted by: gopunk
having known a few mormons in my lifetime, i don't think mormonism is a cult. at least not any more so than any other form of christianity.

having known more than a few mormons in my lifetime, i can say with certainty that mormonism IS a cult. these are people who live in fear of their god, who can go through major breakdowns when they do something perfectly natural like have sex. i have seen incredibly wonderful relationships broken apart because of the guilt they felt when they had sex before marriage. any religion that tears you from your loved ones is a cult.

yea, and no guilt ever came from catholicism....

 

[Bluefront]

Never realized there were so many pathetic sheep following their flocks....sorry people, I totally reject all your beliefs, all your cults.....

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Never realized there were so many pathetic sheep following their flocks....sorry people, I totally reject all your beliefs, all your cults.....

Baaaaaaaaaa

Both are considered cults by "mainstream" christianity. Mormons are nice and have great families, but Joseph Smith was nutty.

He and his dad were obsessed with finding Captain Kidd's teasure. Amazingly, when he was 17 an angel appeared to him and told him to translate the Book of Mormon (similar to the story of Mohammed in the cave). Amazingly, the book was written on hidden gold plates which Smith discovered!! Unfortunately for Smith, Moroni (the Angel) took took the treasured gold plates back to heaven with him, but he started a movement that's still going today.

Jehovah's Witness is another nutty group of people.

The thing that really separates groups like Mormons and JWs from mainstream Christianity is their inclusion of extra-biblical material as canon. Anytime you add a later work to the Bible, things start getting weird. It's not a new phenomenon... people did it within years of Jesus' death. Check out the Gospel of Thomas and some of the other rejected early Christian writings and you'll find some wild stuff.

 

[dugweb]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: petrek
"What he was saying is that to say that all revelation ceased at that point would be to take power from God and place it in the hands of men, your slur to the contrary nonwithstanding.
IMO, your interpretation says that God no longer has the ability to speak to you."

Listen again to what God says:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Revelation 22:18-19

If anything, denying the Word of God, and claiming that men are still able to speak for God in contradiction to His Word is to take the power away from God and give it to men. God said what he needed to say, what I and anyone else who chooses to listen needs to hear. When I read the Bible I hear his voice.

D

As others have already stated, you're under the false impression that the Bible as we know it today was a completed work at the time that Revelations was written. The quote of "this book" could not have applied to the Bible as a whole and as we know it today because it did not yet exist at that time. The Torah and the Septuagent (OT only) existed, but the NT (including Rev) was not incorporated into the whole until much later. The word "Bible" itself means a set of books.
In context, Rev 22:18-19 can only be interpreted as applying to the Book of Revelations and not the Bible as a whole. No, that would not then make it okay to alter the other books. And even if it were to made to apply to the Bible as a whole, I still do not see how it could be interpreted to mean that God would no longer speak to and/or provide revelation to chosen persons anymore, or that there could not be other books.
What your interpretation does mean is that individuals can be persecuted for having non-mainstream beliefs in God. It means they can be attacked for claiming to have received revelation from God, because your "interpretation" says that God has now forsaken us, therefore any further revelation "must" be from Satan, any possible validity of such words being from God is not important, as you have decided beforehand. The power is not in God to speak to us, but in man to decide that God can speak to us no more. What you have, sorry to say, is the same belief that the Pharisees had. Your heart and mind is closed, your faith is in a sealed book and not in God, and God cannot reach you.

And as I have stated before, it is unreasonable and illogical for me to believe that that passage refers only to revelation, some people believe that to be the case and they are entitled to their opinion. To suggest that the book, the Bible, had not been compliled and therefore that passage could not possibly refer to it as such, is to underestimate the knowledge of God. It also quite simply defies logic to suggest that it's ok to tamper with the Bible, as long as you leave Revelation alone.

Have you read Revelation, if so, then you are aware that it speaks of future events. In fact, it tells man how the end will come, and what will happen. Why would you need to know more than that, being that is all.

The Bible was written long before my time, yet I am saved. How is this possible? It is possible because the word of God is timeless. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. God revealed himself through his word, and I accepted Him. The more I read the Bible, the more he reveals himself to me.

God says:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17

What need have I for more than perfection?

D

The book of revelation wasn't even the last book written in the bible (chronoligically) John wrote the book of revalations. It's just coincedence that the book of revelations appears as the last book, which begs the question, if the book of revelations wasn't reffering to adding to just that book in particular whats to say of the other 16 books after the book of john?

 

[Krk3561]

Catholicism is the only true Christian chruch. It is the only Christian church to be started by Jesus. All other Christian churches broke off from Catholicism. So, if you are a Christian, why would you be a member of any other church since no others were the original or started by Jesus?

 

[petrek]

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Catholicism is the only true Christian chruch. It is the only Christian church to be started by Jesus. All other Christian churches broke off from Catholicism. So, if you are a Christian, why would you be a member of any other church since no others were the original or started by Jesus?

Simply put, that statement is false.

D

 

[StormRider]

Originally posted by: hpkeeper
Fist off... mormonism isn't a religion, it's a sect of Christianity.... speaking from a sociologists standpoint.

second...
I think religion on a whole is the best scam known to mankind I'm a firm believer in evolution. The Pope has the best deal going with tithing through churches. So I'm with most of you guys on that.

Just to emphasize my knowledge on this topic of mormons, (not that I'm all knowing) But, I'm currently taking the discussions with the mormon missionaries. I have about a dozen friends or so from the Church of Jesus Christ of Lader day saints who have been trying to get me to take the discussions for a while. I've had some very in depth discussions with their beliefs and mine trying to get to understand them better. I've known a few of these friends my entire life. They believe in modern day Prophets such as Gordon B. Hinkley and a few other things. Polygamy isn't one of them, at least not around here... they have very high values and it's very family oriented. Divorce is pretty much forbidden from what I'm told, at least when they get married in a temple.

Really it's pretty much along the lines of every other christian sect except that the book of mormon is an addition to the bible, which is supposedly spoken of within the bible, but I haven't gotten to that part of the scriptures yet.

I'm an agnostic but why do people feel that religion and evolution are mutually exclusive?

I can design a system using genetic algorithms to find the best solution to a problem. The system was designed my me and it uses the priniciples of natural selection to find solutions to problems. If another designer saw my system he would say, "Wow, that's a clever design you used".

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: StormRider

Originally posted by: hpkeeper
Fist off... mormonism isn't a religion, it's a sect of Christianity.... speaking from a sociologists standpoint.

second...
I think religion on a whole is the best scam known to mankind I'm a firm believer in evolution. The Pope has the best deal going with tithing through churches. So I'm with most of you guys on that.

Just to emphasize my knowledge on this topic of mormons, (not that I'm all knowing) But, I'm currently taking the discussions with the mormon missionaries. I have about a dozen friends or so from the Church of Jesus Christ of Lader day saints who have been trying to get me to take the discussions for a while. I've had some very in depth discussions with their beliefs and mine trying to get to understand them better. I've known a few of these friends my entire life. They believe in modern day Prophets such as Gordon B. Hinkley and a few other things. Polygamy isn't one of them, at least not around here... they have very high values and it's very family oriented. Divorce is pretty much forbidden from what I'm told, at least when they get married in a temple.

Really it's pretty much along the lines of every other christian sect except that the book of mormon is an addition to the bible, which is supposedly spoken of within the bible, but I haven't gotten to that part of the scriptures yet.

I'm an agnostic but why do people feel that religion and evolution are mutually exclusive?

I can design a system using genetic algorithms to find the best solution to a problem. The system was designed my me and it uses the priniciples of natural selection to find solutions to problems. If another designer saw my system he would say, "Wow, that's a clever design you used".

just ignorance. look at the history of the church never fails to amuse.

 

[dquan97]

Take a look at some testimony from former Mormons: here
History

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: dquan97
Take a look at some testimony from former Mormons: here
History

what's that supposed to show? you can find such testimony for any number of different religions.

 

[petrek]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: dquan97
Take a look at some testimony from former Mormons: here
History

what's that supposed to show? you can find such testimony for any number of different religions.

It shows why those people left the Mormon church, their reasoning behind their departure. Just because you can find people's testimonies for leaving other religions does not make these individuals testimonies invalid, or inconsequential. The validity and usefulness of theirs or anyone elses testimony is based on knowledge and understanding.

D

 

[Nemesis77]

Cult: Small, unpopular religion

Religion: Large, popular cult

That just about sums it up

 

[Jfur]

Originally posted by: gopunk

The whole thing about God once being just another human, and that any human can become a god... I think that does it pretty well. I had a friend in high school who was mormon. He told me point blank that one day he would be a god, and rule over his own planet. I find that just a little bit out there.

i don't mean to start a flamefest, but from an objective atheist standpoint, it's not clear to me that it is any more out there than "normal" christianity. i have had friends who were christian, and they've told me point blank that when they died they would go up to this place with angels and clouds. if you break it down, just about any religion sounds like a nutjob made it up.

my thought exactly

 

[petrek]

Originally posted by: Jfur

Originally posted by: gopunk

The whole thing about God once being just another human, and that any human can become a god... I think that does it pretty well. I had a friend in high school who was mormon. He told me point blank that one day he would be a god, and rule over his own planet. I find that just a little bit out there.

i don't mean to start a flamefest, but from an objective atheist standpoint, it's not clear to me that it is any more out there than "normal" christianity. i have had friends who were christian, and they've told me point blank that when they died they would go up to this place with angels and clouds. if you break it down, just about any religion sounds like a nutjob made it up.

my thought exactly

4 words, the Nation of Israel.

D

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Jfur

Originally posted by: gopunk

The whole thing about God once being just another human, and that any human can become a god... I think that does it pretty well. I had a friend in high school who was mormon. He told me point blank that one day he would be a god, and rule over his own planet. I find that just a little bit out there.

i don't mean to start a flamefest, but from an objective atheist standpoint, it's not clear to me that it is any more out there than "normal" christianity. i have had friends who were christian, and they've told me point blank that when they died they would go up to this place with angels and clouds. if you break it down, just about any religion sounds like a nutjob made it up.

my thought exactly

4 words, the Nation of Israel.

D

3 words, what about it?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: dquan97
Take a look at some testimony from former Mormons: here
History

what's that supposed to show? you can find such testimony for any number of different religions.

It shows why those people left the Mormon church, their reasoning behind their departure. Just because you can find people's testimonies for leaving other religions does not make these individuals testimonies invalid, or inconsequential. The validity and usefulness of theirs or anyone elses testimony is based on knowledge and understanding.

D

thanks for stating the obvious... but my post was intended to point out that the testimonials don't have anything to do with whether or not mormonism is a cult unless you're willing to call just about any other religion a cult.

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Catholicism is the only true Christian chruch. It is the only Christian church to be started by Jesus. All other Christian churches broke off from Catholicism. So, if you are a Christian, why would you be a member of any other church since no others were the original or started by Jesus?

Simply put, that statement is false.

D

In what way is that statement false?

 

[GreatBambino]

Originally posted by: Krk3561

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Catholicism is the only true Christian chruch. It is the only Christian church to be started by Jesus. All other Christian churches broke off from Catholicism. So, if you are a Christian, why would you be a member of any other church since no others were the original or started by Jesus?

Simply put, that statement is false.

D

In what way is that statement false?

I thought jesus was a jew? I don't remember Jesus starting the catholic church where's that found in the bible? Maybe it's in your Catholic version of the bible?

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: Krk3561
Catholicism is the only true Christian chruch. It is the only Christian church to be started by Jesus. All other Christian churches broke off from Catholicism. So, if you are a Christian, why would you be a member of any other church since no others were the original or started by Jesus?

Could you quote me the bible-passage where Jesus says "I hereby start the church of catholicism!". In reality, catholicism was spun off from the early christianity that Jesus started. The early christianity morphed in to catholicism and orthodox churches, catholicism the proceeded to morph in to protestant, anglican and host of other churches.

And I find it hard to believe that a church that protects child-molestors is a "the only christian church"...

 

[DrVos]

So can someone clear this up for me? Does Mormon scripture teach that people can attain "god-hood?"

If that is true I don't see how Mormonism would fall into any sect of Christianity since Christianity is monotheistic. Some insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JupiterJones]

I was listening to a Christian radio station the other day and there was a panel on there that were discussing the dangers and lures of cults, etc...

Depends on how you define a cult.

Typically, by cultism we mean the adherence to doctrines which are pointedly contradictory to orthodox Christianity and which yet claim the distinction of either tracing their origin to orthodox sources or of being in essential harmony with those sources.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

The Mormon religion, the entire religion - not just the padded, shaded, and withheld version that you hear from people going door-to-door, is a cult, yes.

cults:
Latter Day Saints
Mormons
Jehova's Witnesses
I'm not awake, so I might be forgetting one

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Bignate603
I'm Mormon and it's as much a cult as any other christian religion. As people become more aware that we're there just because the start meeting us the start to get a feel for who we are. I did have one girl ask if I let people take my picture or if I thought it would take my soul. I was laughing so hard I was on the ground.

so how's the magical underwear holding up these days?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
The Mormon religion, the entire religion - not just the padded, shaded, and withheld version that you hear from people going door-to-door, is a cult, yes.

cults:
Latter Day Saints
Mormons
Jehova's Witnesses
I'm not awake, so I might be forgetting one

lds = mormons

well if you're going to include them, then you've forgotten the rest of christianity... seriously i have sat in on sunday ceremonies at both a mormon temple and a "normal" church, and they're not all that different. i've had friends of both faiths, and neither seemed any crazier than the other side.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Electric Amish

Originally posted by: Maetryx
Generally, orthodox Protestant Christians believe that any religion based on Jesus Christ which abridges his deity (denies to some degree his godhood) is a cult. So religions that don't involve Jesus are not referred to as cults. By this use of the word cult, Mormonism and Jehoah Witnesses are cults.

I don't know about JW, but I don't see how the LDS religion abridges the deity of JC.

amish

A difference between Christianity and Mormonism is that Christianity believes Jesus to be the *only* son of God, that he is the only incarnation of God on earth. Mormons have a slightly different belief about Jesus, and it is not as exclusive, putting selected humans up to the same status of diety as Jesus.

They also don't believe that Jesus died on the cross for their sins - or that he even WAS the Son of God. That's pretty scary since they preach the Bible ... oh wait, they don't.