Is the Mormon religion a cult?

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: LAUST
I remember them being asked not to take advantage of the Olympics being in Salt Lake... but yet flyers spread everwhere.

Religion spread by flyers makes me wonder just abit.

If someone's heart was touched by the Holy Spirit -if the seed that was planted gets just a little water- enough to where the person begins to persue a personal relationship with Christ -not a realigion- then it's all worth it and any way that is used is a blessed and valid way.

 

[petrek]

As I posted before, this is exactly why I feel the need to have several translations at hand.... including a Catholic Bible.... the Deuterocanonicals are good reading even if not sacred.

Consider this thought, did God only partially preserve His word, and leave it up to man to figure out which parts are His and which parts are the angel of light's? He didn't make a partial payment for man's sins.

D

 

[Netopia]

Consider this thought, did God only partially preserve His word, and leave it up to man to figure out which parts are His and which parts are the angel of light's? He didn't make a partial payment for man's sins.

I'm beginning to wonder if it is possible for you to stay on any topic without bending it to become your personal soapbox.

Joe

 

[JASANITY]

I heard that Joseph Smith saw the "Angel of Light" who told him what to preach. I was told that the "Angel of Light" is actually the devil in disguise if you do some research. Any confirmations or explanations on how to find this out?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JASANITY
I heard that Joseph Smith saw the "Angel of Light" who told him what to preach. I was told that the "Angel of Light" is actually the devil in disguise if you do some research. Any confirmations or explanations on how to find this out?

Actually, Smith claimed to have seen (one several seperate occasions) God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost, and several angels of God. AFAIK and IIRC, he never to claimed to have seen any "Angel of Light," though he did describe the personages and angels that he saw to be dressed in white and to be filled with a holy light, hardly a unique description of such things.
Recommended explanations can be found at the various Mormom/LDS church sites posted previously in this lengthy thread and from reading the Mormon "Doctrine & Covenants."

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: JASANITY
I heard that Joseph Smith saw the "Angel of Light" who told him what to preach. I was told that the "Angel of Light" is actually the devil in disguise if you do some research. Any confirmations or explanations on how to find this out?

Satan is described in the Bible as the Angel of Light. He's also described to have had authority over worship and music while still in his heavenly position.

 

[JASANITY]

So, if Mormon's claim that their beliefs are based on the Bible, doesn't this recursively define that they are admitting to going off on their own to follow the devil, and not God?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JASANITY
So, if Mormon's claim that their beliefs are based on the Bible, doesn't this recursively define that they are admitting to going off on their own to follow the devil, and not God?

See my post above. Nowhere did Smith claim to have seen an "Angel of Light," i.e. Lucifer, Satan, etc., whatever. He claimed to have actually seen God and angels of God. Whether he actually did or did not is immaterial to my reply here, as I merely see your comments as ludicrous and your logic as flawed. To answer: no, they don't claim he saw an "Angel of Light," so no, their belief in the Bible does not "recursively define that they are admitting to going off on their own to follow the devil, and not God." Edit: To say otherwise (as in the manner that you did) would be to try to propagate a falsehood or to pervert the truth via an entrapment (i.e. you state a falsehood, assume it to be true without proof, and then attempt to ensnare with the falsehood), which would cause me to question just who influences you.

IMO, Smith no more followed the devil than did Calvin or Luther. Whether that means he did or did not, I leave to individual opinion.

BTW, the ONLY "angel of light" reference in the Bible (to which I believe ffmcobalt refers to) is 2 Corinthians 11:13-15

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The word "Lucifer" means "Bringer of Light" in Latin and occurs only one place in the Bible, in Isaiah 14:12

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


edit: I thought I would point out that, in all these posts, MadRat is the only one who has brought up the actual and (depending on your opinion) possibly valid arguments against the Mormons. Arguments over the exact, precise, and literal wording of the Bible as the Word of God or that no other Book of God could exist besides the Bible are without merit. God is not the Bible, nor is the Bible God. His words (as interpreted by men) merely exist therein.

 

[Netopia]

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Hmmmm..... ALL of the original Apostles (save Paul) actually walked around with the pre-Crucified Jesus and Paul had a rather public encounter with Him in front of others. All of them did miracles that could be witnessed by believers and unbelievers alike. What are the "requirements" to be an Apostle in the Mormon religion? If I claim to have had a personal encounter with Jesus but am not a Mormon, would they accept me as an Apostle or is there some other qualification beyond who God chooses, and if so, is the LDS "transforming themselves in the apostles of Christ"?

Joe

 

[SP33Demon]

"- They believe that the purpose of humankind is to acheive perfection. All that is perfect thinks with one mind. The purpose is to "join" with God in Heaven. That which is perfect could not be male only."

Not to be nitpicky: Vic, if females are also "perfect", then why can't they be missionaries? Black are a minority, and they're now allowed. Curious

All the Bible bangers here have left me disgusted... MORMONS REALLY ARE A CULT. And this isn't just from ignorance, I'VE BEEN TO THEIR CHURCH BEFORE!!!! TWICE!! I studied with a couple of em just to get a better understanding of their religion and here are some of the things I learned:

-These guys wouldn't even drink Nestea or Coca cola. The wouldn't eat CHOCOLATE because of the caffeine in it!! Seriously, that is PATHETIC, Chocolate has about as much caffeine as there are pandas left in the wild.

-To any question that the missionaries couldn't answer (and I see the same trend here), they will tell you to "pray and ask God, and the answer will soon be clear". Try asking any Bible banger about the Dinosaurs and why they aren't referred to in the Bible (CREATION) and they just sit there like uhhhhhhh "The Lord works in mysterious and wonderful ways". Oh, I even hit em with the If God was so Merciful how could he let 6 millions Jews die philosophical question? Another "The Lord works in mysterious and wonderful ways".

-I have a problem with someone preaching that, as TRIPLESHOT did here, if you're Mormon, you will be reunited with your family in Heaven. This SPECIFICALLY goes against traditional scripture, and yes, I'm too lazy to look it up. Also, 3 levels of Heaven? You're either in, or out is the way I see it... no, murderers don't get to go to Planet one, while the "really good people who read x,y,z scripture" get to go to Planet 3 and be with their family in spirit. Start the chant: BULL$H*T, BULL$H*T,...

-I had a problem with these missionaries telling me that whomever is the head of their "Modern Day Phrophet" program (and you thought Navy Seals was hard to get in to, think again!) speaks "directly to God". Nobody on Planet Earth is more special than any other human and gets to talk to the BIG MAN, sorry! Also, after speaking with God, this "modern day prophet" can then add Amendments to scripture or whatever to account for "Modern Times". Yeah, I can see it now: Thou shalt not surf and look at porn on the internet.

-About Joseph Smith, missionaries tell me he found these Golden Tablets and they were "buried". I ask them, ok, so where are they buried then? Can I check them out and visit the site, do the tourist thing? They tell me, nobody knows where they are now. This contradicts what other Mormons, who aren't even missionaries on this board, are saying about the Tablets: that some angel took em away. Riiiiiiiight. Your whole religion is founded on something that doesn't even MATERIALLY EXIST!! Give me a break, where is the proof?! At least the Bible had the Dead Sea Scrolls which are carbon dated, according to my Jewish friend...

That about does it for my Rant. Note to all future politicians: get in good with the Mormons, they will vote for you big and you'll win Utah. Hey, if G.Dubya can do it, so can anyone.

Last but not least, I think religion is good. It keeps people straight, and calm. If nobody was religious, there would definitely be alot more road rage. So keep up the good work, and preach on. I'm all for peace on Earth, and sorry if I offended anyone, it is bound to happen when it comes to religious beliefs (Time or Newsweek actually wrote a good article a couple years back on how the world would be divided by countries of religion, I think I'm starting to believe it with bin Laden and the way you guys are squabbling over petty stuff that won't matter in 80 years when u have Alhzeimers and won't remember Anandtech). Enjoy life, and to each his own hobby, religion, or cult. 🙂

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Not to be nitpicky: Vic, if females are also "perfect", then why can't they be missionaries? Black are a minority, and they're now allowed. Curious

Arghh... you make it difficult to quote! 😉
Females ARE allowed to be missionaries, don't know where you heard this. Two of my female cousins served even.
Blacks are allowed to serve as well, once again you have been misinformed.

edit: also, I just noticed that you misinterpretated my meaning. My point is that perfection must encompass both male and female. For a male-only being to be perfect would be contrary to the very definition of perfection. Think about it a bit.

All the Bible bangers here have left me disgusted... MORMONS REALLY ARE A CULT. And this isn't just from ignorance, I'VE BEEN TO THEIR CHURCH BEFORE!!!! TWICE!! I studied with a couple of em just to get a better understanding of their religion and here are some of the things I learned:

-These guys wouldn't even drink Nestea or Coca cola. The wouldn't eat CHOCOLATE because of the caffeine in it!! Seriously, that is PATHETIC, Chocolate has about as much caffeine as there are pandas left in the wild.

I would say that you failed to approach the Mormon church with an open mind. Garbage in, garbage out, you always find what you're looking to find.
In the first example here, Mormons believe that righteous people should have clean and healthy bodies to go with their clean minds. Hardly a unique religious concept.

-To any question that the missionaries couldn't answer (and I see the same trend here), they will tell you to "pray and ask God, and the answer will soon be clear". Try asking any Bible banger about the Dinosaurs and why they aren't referred to in the Bible (CREATION) and they just sit there like uhhhhhhh "The Lord works in mysterious and wonderful ways". Oh, I even hit em with the If God was so Merciful how could he let 6 millions Jews die philosophical question? Another "The Lord works in mysterious and wonderful ways".

Once again, hardly unique concepts or opinions.

-I have a problem with someone preaching that, as TRIPLESHOT did here, if you're Mormon, you will be reunited with your family in Heaven. This SPECIFICALLY goes against traditional scripture, and yes, I'm too lazy to look it up. Also, 3 levels of Heaven? You're either in, or out is the way I see it... no, murderers don't get to go to Planet one, while the "really good people who read x,y,z scripture" get to go to Planet 3 and be with their family in spirit. Start the chant: BULL$H*T, BULL$H*T,...

Actually, being united with family and beloved friends in Heaven is NOT against traditional scripture, though (IIRC) it is not referenced specifically in the Bible. Bear in mind that the Jews (who follow the Torah, or Old Testament as we call it) don't believe in any afterlife whatsoever.
As for the 3 levels of Heaven, who knows? 9 Levels of Hell is acceptable but not 3 levels of Heaven? Is not God just?

-I had a problem with these missionaries telling me that whomever is the head of their "Modern Day Phrophet" program (and you thought Navy Seals was hard to get in to, think again!) speaks "directly to God". Nobody on Planet Earth is more special than any other human and gets to talk to the BIG MAN, sorry! Also, after speaking with God, this "modern day prophet" can then add Amendments to scripture or whatever to account for "Modern Times". Yeah, I can see it now: Thou shalt not surf and look at porn on the internet.

By that same logic, you can't believe in ancient prophets either. If the Bible is clear about anything, it is that men are NOT equal, and God does judge some men as better than others, according to their faith AND their works (isn't that what Heaven and Hell are all about?).
And if you know of ANY Christian religion that believes that surfing porn on the internet is acceptable, let me know. 😉

-About Joseph Smith, missionaries tell me he found these Golden Tablets and they were "buried". I ask them, ok, so where are they buried then? Can I check them out and visit the site, do the tourist thing? They tell me, nobody knows where they are now. This contradicts what other Mormons, who aren't even missionaries on this board, are saying about the Tablets: that some angel took em away. Riiiiiiiight. Your whole religion is founded on something that doesn't even MATERIALLY EXIST!! Give me a break, where is the proof?! At least the Bible had the Dead Sea Scrolls which are carbon dated, according to my Jewish friend...

Proof is contrary to faith. The Dead Sea Scrolls weren't discovered until recently.

That about does it for my Rant. Note to all future politicians: get in good with the Mormons, they will vote for you big and you'll win Utah. Hey, if G.Dubya can do it, so can anyone.

Utah, with only (IIRC) 5 electoral votes is hardly a big win. Yes, it does appear that Mormons have higher than average levels of voter turnout.

Last but not least, I think religion is good. It keeps people straight, and calm. If nobody was religious, there would definitely be alot more road rage. So keep up the good work, and preach on. I'm all for peace on Earth, and sorry if I offended anyone, it is bound to happen when it comes to religious beliefs (Time or Newsweek actually wrote a good article a couple years back on how the world would be divided by countries of religion, I think I'm starting to believe it with bin Laden and the way you guys are squabbling over petty stuff that won't matter in 80 years when u have Alhzeimers and won't remember Anandtech). Enjoy life, and to each his own hobby, religion, or cult. 🙂

Of course, that is what religion of men is all about: the control of emotion. That is why I support the separation of Church and State and always have. Many people have blamed religion for the cause of wars, when in fact the cause of wars is always emotion and its manipulation on a massive scale. Placing politics in control of this emotional power cleanses religion of this evil and places the pursuit and study of God on a higher level. The Islamic Fundamentalists wish to maintain this control of emotion and power and fear losing it, hence our current issues.
Of course, the reasons of religion and God are that it will not only matter 80 years from now but throughout all eternity. But, if it's any consolation to you, medical studies in recent years show that Alhzheimers is most likely caused by the failure of individuals to stretch out and use their minds. Kind of like the rest of your body, if you don't exercise it, you lose it. 🙂

edit: minor spelling typo

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Netopia

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Hmmmm..... ALL of the original Apostles (save Paul) actually walked around with the pre-Crucified Jesus and Paul had a rather public encounter with Him in front of others. All of them did miracles that could be witnessed by believers and unbelievers alike. What are the "requirements" to be an Apostle in the Mormon religion? If I claim to have had a personal encounter with Jesus but am not a Mormon, would they accept me as an Apostle or is there some other qualification beyond who God chooses, and if so, is the LDS "transforming themselves in the apostles of Christ"?

Joe

You make a valid point. All I can say is that, like all the various Christian sects, they have exclusivitized the faith into themselves. For example, if you claimed to have seen Christ and were not Catholic, do you expect the Catholics to allow you to be Pope? Or even a lowly priest? Of course not. You would be condemned and persecuted. Now remember that that same example will work for ALL of the various Christian sects.

edit: arggh, can't spell today

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
"- They believe that the purpose of humankind is to acheive perfection. All that is perfect thinks with one mind. The purpose is to "join" with God in Heaven. That which is perfect could not be male only."

Not to be nitpicky: Vic, if females are also "perfect", then why can't they be missionaries? Black are a minority, and they're now allowed. Curious

All the Bible bangers here have left me disgusted... MORMONS REALLY ARE A CULT. And this isn't just from ignorance, I'VE BEEN TO THEIR CHURCH BEFORE!!!! TWICE!! I studied with a couple of em just to get a better understanding of their religion and here are some of the things I learned:

-These guys wouldn't even drink Nestea or Coca cola. The wouldn't eat CHOCOLATE because of the caffeine in it!! Seriously, that is PATHETIC, Chocolate has about as much caffeine as there are pandas left in the wild.

-To any question that the missionaries couldn't answer (and I see the same trend here), they will tell you to "pray and ask God, and the answer will soon be clear". Try asking any Bible banger about the Dinosaurs and why they aren't referred to in the Bible (CREATION) and they just sit there like uhhhhhhh "The Lord works in mysterious and wonderful ways". Oh, I even hit em with the If God was so Merciful how could he let 6 millions Jews die philosophical question? Another "The Lord works in mysterious and wonderful ways".

-I have a problem with someone preaching that, as TRIPLESHOT did here, if you're Mormon, you will be reunited with your family in Heaven. This SPECIFICALLY goes against traditional scripture, and yes, I'm too lazy to look it up. Also, 3 levels of Heaven? You're either in, or out is the way I see it... no, murderers don't get to go to Planet one, while the "really good people who read x,y,z scripture" get to go to Planet 3 and be with their family in spirit. Start the chant: BULL$H*T, BULL$H*T,...

-I had a problem with these missionaries telling me that whomever is the head of their "Modern Day Phrophet" program (and you thought Navy Seals was hard to get in to, think again!) speaks "directly to God". Nobody on Planet Earth is more special than any other human and gets to talk to the BIG MAN, sorry! Also, after speaking with God, this "modern day prophet" can then add Amendments to scripture or whatever to account for "Modern Times". Yeah, I can see it now: Thou shalt not surf and look at porn on the internet.

-About Joseph Smith, missionaries tell me he found these Golden Tablets and they were "buried". I ask them, ok, so where are they buried then? Can I check them out and visit the site, do the tourist thing? They tell me, nobody knows where they are now. This contradicts what other Mormons, who aren't even missionaries on this board, are saying about the Tablets: that some angel took em away. Riiiiiiiight. Your whole religion is founded on something that doesn't even MATERIALLY EXIST!! Give me a break, where is the proof?! At least the Bible had the Dead Sea Scrolls which are carbon dated, according to my Jewish friend...

That about does it for my Rant. Note to all future politicians: get in good with the Mormons, they will vote for you big and you'll win Utah. Hey, if G.Dubya can do it, so can anyone.

Last but not least, I think religion is good. It keeps people straight, and calm. If nobody was religious, there would definitely be alot more road rage. So keep up the good work, and preach on. I'm all for peace on Earth, and sorry if I offended anyone, it is bound to happen when it comes to religious beliefs (Time or Newsweek actually wrote a good article a couple years back on how the world would be divided by countries of religion, I think I'm starting to believe it with bin Laden and the way you guys are squabbling over petty stuff that won't matter in 80 years when u have Alhzeimers and won't remember Anandtech). Enjoy life, and to each his own hobby, religion, or cult. 🙂

Well, I'm happy you are reading this thread. It caught your eye because you "attended a ward meeting once or twice". That makes you an authority all of a sudden?

Here is the deal, folks. You prove we are wrong. We don't have to prove to you we are right. We invite you to spend the time to learn about us, not just go off half cocked with pre concieved notions. We would gladly explain things to you if you have a sincere desire to learn. That is not the thrust of this thread anymore.

To clarify, we are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, we have a full belief and faith in our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. We are Christians, got it? We have the Bible, as far as it is translated correctly, the Book of Mormon and other standard works we believe to be an additional inspired and accepted scripture to use as guideposts to our Heavenly Father and teach us obedience. We have a Prophet at the head of our Church, just as in the days of the ministry of Jesus Christ, (which by the way is under His Holy direction) who speaks to God through prayer, and is the only one to speak FOR the Church. We believe anyone and everyone can talk to God through prayer, and moreover, if your heart is right, and you are sincere, I believe He answers those prayers. Try it sometime.

All the information about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is located here.

Please us this site to answer your questions. You can do it in privacy and no one but you and your concience will know. Keep an open mind. I did when I went to Catholic Churches and Baptist Churchs and to Synagogs. When I found my way to this Church, I knew it was true. It answers all the questions most of you still have. It adds heaps of blessings on you that you can have for the asking, if you have a contrite spirit and ask in the name of Jesus Christ.

Please try some understanding. We do that for you.🙂



Moonies where a cult. Dave koresh was a cult. Jim Jones was a cult. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is "The CHURCH of....." ! It is a church with as much standing in society as any you have ever gone to. Stop trying to bash it. You just make fools of yourself in the process.

 

[MadRat]

Tripleshot,

When your days have reached their number give Adam a piece of my mind. How dare that bastard be the source of original sin.

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Tripleshot,

When your days have reached their number give Adam a piece of my mind. How dare that bastard be the source of original sin.

hehehe 😀

I saw the movie. I think it was Eve that started it.


By the way, when my days are numbered, I hope I don't see the real culprit, the serpent that beguiled Eve.
If I do see him, I will know I went down the wrong road somewhere. 😉

 

[Lovepig]

Netopia said, ?To follow up on my previous post... isn't the LDS sort of like a Theological Amway? I'm being serious here. It's my understanding that the LDS believe that the Universe is eternal and that it is (the first) God (or Father?) that had a starting point. That he had reached perfection and so others worshipped him. Someone who worshipped him reached perfection and was promoted to being a god too, at which point others worshipped him... and so on and so on. Is this correct.?

-------------------

Theological Amway?! Lol! That?s a funny term?I want to use it on someone else now!

When I think of Amway I think of an organization that people are only successful because A) they re-arrange their lives to use the products in every area of their life and B) they convince others to do the same. Revenue is generated at the bottom from people joining and using the products - with that revenue flowing to the top levels. Very little income is generated from people just buying products themselves without being a member. Another characteristic is that there is very little payback for most members, who end up feeling scammed!

Whew! Again great term, ?theological Amway?. I?m not sure how the theological part would modify my thinking since a goal of business is making money and a goal of theology (should be) the welfare of souls!

Bottom line is that there is no official doctrine of our Heavenly Father?s Father. Any discussion would be merely opinion and speculation. We do clearly believe that we are in a literal sense His spiritual offspring. And that He wasn?t kidding or tormenting us when He commanded us to be like Him.

There is no official doctrine of the starting of the universe or whether or not God had a God. And truthfully, although I do like discussing it, it does seem to be a moot point with little relevance to how I follow Christ here and now, little bearing on how I treat my wife, and zero relevance on how I teach my children to be righteous, humble, and thoughtful.

So for my opinion of your questions, yes, I do think the universe is eternal. I treat God as though He is the first God. We have no way of knowing if He is the first or not. If there are others they are certainly not our spiritual parents and have little relevance to our salvation and eternal happiness. And ~if~ there were a long succession of Gods, then one of them had to be the first, why not ours?

 

[petrek]

I'm beginning to wonder if it is possible for you to stay on any topic without bending it to become your personal soapbox.

Sorry you think that way. I was just pointing out that just as I believe Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, the work of Salvation being completed by Christ on the cross. So to do I believe that the preservation of the Word of God is God's responsibility, God says "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever" Psalm 12:6-7

D

 

[EXman]

I'm beginning to wonder if it is possible for you to stay on any topic without bending it to become your personal soapbox.

typical ATOT nothing more.

Everyone thinks they are right and everyone else wrong regardless of the facts.

Yes mormanism is still a cult 😛 that is my opinion nothing more nothing less. If you think you can change my mind (or anyone elses) on the topic save your breath.

 

[Netopia]

...it does seem to be a moot point with little relevance to how I follow Christ here and now, little bearing on how I treat my wife, and zero relevance on how I teach my children to be righteous, humble, and thoughtful.

You are correct. We are debating the theology involved as opposed to how much of it or what you put into practice. At least you know what your theology is... so many people of all sorts of religions around the world are simply culturally religious and don't even understand what what they follow or why.

BTW... if the universe is eternal, what was it The Word created in the first chapter of the Gospel of John?

Joe

 

[Lovepig]

BTW... if the universe is eternal, what was it The Word created in the first chapter of the Gospel of John?

Or in the first chapter of Genesis? I don't believe God is confounded by the laws of physics as we know them. He knows and works through higher laws.

I think one thing that makes discussions difficult as we get into more and more abstract issues is our syntax of ideas like eternity, infinity, omnipotnet, omniscient. All these things describe things that we cannot really understand or fully comprehend.

So, as far as the universe being eternal, well the matter and energy has probably always been around and probably will always be around. God probably just changes the form and reorganizes the matter and energy in the way HE wants. But I imagine if He wanted more or less or anything He could take care of that too...

So God is eternal, everything else is negotiable.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: petrek

I'm beginning to wonder if it is possible for you to stay on any topic without bending it to become your personal soapbox.

Sorry you think that way. I was just pointing out that just as I believe Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, the work of Salvation being completed by Christ on the cross. So to do I believe that the preservation of the Word of God is God's responsibility, God says "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever" Psalm 12:6-7

D

With all due respect and kindness, someone needs to teach you context when reading and studying the Bible and its history. The words of the Lord ARE pure words... but those words are the words of David. And what David was asking the Lord to preserve was not the words, but the righteous from the wicked. I think Netopia was right about you and your soapbox.

edit: you have also given me the ability to demostrate the power of translation, this passage is perfect for that. Observe.

KJV: 6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

NASB: 6 The words of the LORD are pure words; As silver tried in a furnace on the earth, refined seven times.
7 You, O LORD, will keep them; You will preserve him from this generation forever.

NIV: 6 And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times.
7 O LORD, you will keep us safe and protect us from such people forever.

 

[SirFshAlot]

OT......

Lovepig, I'm impressed with your responses; very cool and level-headed.

15 posts in 2 years???? Good work, Mr. Lurker.
😉


btw, I've read this thread in it's entirety.

I live in Utah, and have a pretty good understanding of Mormons.
Funny to see people and their half-cocked ASSumptions.

 

[StinkyMeat]

Originally posted by: LAUST
I remember them being asked not to take advantage of the Olympics being in Salt Lake... but yet flyers spread everwhere.

Religion spread by flyers makes me wonder just abit.

Well. It's cost effective.

Seriously, I don't see how these arguements like "the bible says so" or "Kingdom Cult" says so have any basis whatsoever. Both of these books were written by man. Everyone knows that the word of God was translated through man in order to write the Bible. Why shouldn't we believe that it's possible that this Smith character had a similar experience?

Think of a burned CD. The more copies you make, the more quality you lose. This is how I [OPINION] see the bible. It has been though so many changes and amendments and translations that I have trouble believing every word is the word of God.

I personally know a family of mormons, and I believe they are one of the strongest families I have ever met. It's a shock nowadays to walk into a home and feel such a sense of family and love in the household. I've been to their grandparents house, and learned first hand about how some members of their faith operate. It doesn't seem like a cult to me, it has obviously made their lives absolutely wonderful. Individually, they are by far the smartest, strongest, and most hardworking people I know. There is nothing bad that I can say about them.

They believe what they want. They live life as they think they should. And they turn out pretty damn good.

More power to them.

 

[SirFshAlot]

Everyone knows that the word of God was translated through man in order to write the Bible.
It has been though so many changes and amendments and translations that I have trouble believing every word is the word of God.

amen

The Bible is a book.
It's the message that should be revered, and followed, according to your faith, through prayer.

Arguing it's points will never bring you closer to the truth of it's messages.


good post, StinkyMeat

 

[MadRat]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot

Originally posted by: MadRat
Tripleshot,

When your days have reached their number give Adam a piece of my mind. How dare that bastard be the source of original sin.

hehehe 😀

I saw the movie. I think it was Eve that started it.


By the way, when my days are numbered, I hope I don't see the real culprit, the serpent that beguiled Eve.
If I do see him, I will know I went down the wrong road somewhere. 😉

*grin* But where did Eve come from? 😉