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Is the Mormon religion a cult?
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Allow me then to highlight the part I was specifically referring to, as you seem to have missed it:
"On the subject of Eternal progression, again it is just clarified in the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe they are literal sons and daughters of our father in heaven (God). We were literally concieved by him, making our relationship with him so much more personel, so naturally wouldn't one assume we could become like him? Eternity would be a pretty long time without any progression."
It would be foolish and blasphemous to believe such. To assume I could become like God is to do the same thing that caused Satan's fall. Believing myself to be like the most High is in no uncertain terms blashphemous. As well, to seriously consider the idea that I was "literally concieved" by God makes me physically sick to my stomach.
D
In re"petrek et. al., could you learn to paste only the pertinent info into your quotes? This thread has become very sloppy with all the quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes of........"
This is the first time I choose to respond with the quote button. I thought I would try it to see if it made it easier for others to follow the convo, clearly you are of the opinion it does not. I prefer the other way as well, my bad.
D 🙂
This is the first time I choose to respond with the quote button. I thought I would try it to see if it made it easier for others to follow the convo, clearly you are of the opinion it does not. I prefer the other way as well, my bad.
D 🙂
Tripleshot
Elite Member
It would be foolish and blasphemous to believe such. To assume I could become like God is to do the same thing that caused Satan's fall. Believing myself to be like the most High is in no uncertain terms blashphemous. As well, to seriously consider the idea that I was "literally concieved" by God makes me physically sick to my stomach.
Poor baby.:frown:
You haven't a clue do you? Are the quotemarks your invention; to lay emphasis on what source of your consternation?
BTW, the fall of Satan was because he wanted all the glory of saving all the souls (hint: there was a plan of salvation all along, huh? 🙂 ) to himself, that he would have dominion. Jesus offered to give of himself a perfect sacrifice, to save all the souls and the Glory be to the Father. Now, that is how I understand it. I am not confused at all about it. But inso believing this, it bercomes obvious we were in a spirit state before we gained a human body. To have a soul, one must have a body. Hence man was created and commanded to be fruitful and multiply. Multiply means to populate the planet He created for his purpose, and that being to bring about the immortality of man, which was created in His image.
If we are created in His image, and that image is God, then what's your problem, besides getting violently sick to your stomach?
Excuse me while I laugh at your expense.😀
Poor baby.:frown:
You haven't a clue do you? Are the quotemarks your invention; to lay emphasis on what source of your consternation?
BTW, the fall of Satan was because he wanted all the glory of saving all the souls (hint: there was a plan of salvation all along, huh? 🙂 ) to himself, that he would have dominion. Jesus offered to give of himself a perfect sacrifice, to save all the souls and the Glory be to the Father. Now, that is how I understand it. I am not confused at all about it. But inso believing this, it bercomes obvious we were in a spirit state before we gained a human body. To have a soul, one must have a body. Hence man was created and commanded to be fruitful and multiply. Multiply means to populate the planet He created for his purpose, and that being to bring about the immortality of man, which was created in His image.
If we are created in His image, and that image is God, then what's your problem, besides getting violently sick to your stomach?
Excuse me while I laugh at your expense.😀
GreatBambino
Senior member
For real shux if you can't contribute in any intelligent way then why don't you leave us alone dude.
Go mess around with your seti and go contribute to looking for aliens like the rest of the ppl that contribute to seti.
Go mess around with your seti and go contribute to looking for aliens like the rest of the ppl that contribute to seti.
In re"I think it is pretty obvious to infer from this passage that Satan walks the earth and operates his campaign of evil with God's express permission. To the point where God encourages Satan, even against "perfect" men. Now some (Fundies usually) would be horrified by this line of thought, but the fact is that God is perfect and that nothing operates in this universe without His knowledge and permission. The other necessary reality is that God created Satan, therefore (in a manner of speaking) Satan could be referred to as God's child, just as we (as creations of God) can be referred to as children of God."
I refer to myself as a fundamental Bible believing Christian, because I fundamentally believe the KJV Bible to be the providentially preserved, verbally inspired Word of God. However for one to refer to me as a fundamentalist or "fundie" is to err. The classification does not necessarily fit the person. Fundamentalist beliefs have become as varied in doctrinal stance as virtually any other Christian classification and therefore can't be used to properly isolate ones doctrinal beliefs.
Having said that, your above statement seems to be in line with Biblical doctrine so far as I can see. Satan is most certainly the God of this world, and has free reign, so far as God allows over the earth and it's inhabitants. The term sons of God, as used in Scripture, refers to angels. Lucifer, who was chief among all angels would also then be one of God's sons. The fact that a third of the angels followed Satan in his fall, would not negate the fact that they were angels in a bodily sense, it would however classify them as fallen. Based on what God says in Job, it is a fair assessment to believe that fallen angels are still referred as sons, even though their eternal abode will be in a lake of burning fire.
If you are suggesting however, that Satan is a son of God in the same manner as Christ is a son of God, I will have to vehemently disagree. To do such would be to negate numerous Biblical passages, including 1 John 4:9
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him."
D
I refer to myself as a fundamental Bible believing Christian, because I fundamentally believe the KJV Bible to be the providentially preserved, verbally inspired Word of God. However for one to refer to me as a fundamentalist or "fundie" is to err. The classification does not necessarily fit the person. Fundamentalist beliefs have become as varied in doctrinal stance as virtually any other Christian classification and therefore can't be used to properly isolate ones doctrinal beliefs.
Having said that, your above statement seems to be in line with Biblical doctrine so far as I can see. Satan is most certainly the God of this world, and has free reign, so far as God allows over the earth and it's inhabitants. The term sons of God, as used in Scripture, refers to angels. Lucifer, who was chief among all angels would also then be one of God's sons. The fact that a third of the angels followed Satan in his fall, would not negate the fact that they were angels in a bodily sense, it would however classify them as fallen. Based on what God says in Job, it is a fair assessment to believe that fallen angels are still referred as sons, even though their eternal abode will be in a lake of burning fire.
If you are suggesting however, that Satan is a son of God in the same manner as Christ is a son of God, I will have to vehemently disagree. To do such would be to negate numerous Biblical passages, including 1 John 4:9
"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him."
D
Tripleshot
Elite Member
Only Begotten is reference to the fact that Jesus was born of Mary and recieved a body of flesh. Satan can never have a body of flesh. That is the difference. Only Begotten does not substantiate your argument. Satan and Jesus were in the pre existance co shares of the kingdom with the Father. In that the Father even asked of Satan t offer a plan speaks volumes of his status in the pre existance.
Be greatful, as I'm sure you are, that God the Father chose the plan offered from Jesus the Christ to be the saviour of mankind and further Gods eternal plan. Otherwise we might not be having this conversation. You must have been very special in the spirit world that He sent you here in this time to obtain a body of flesh and bone and know love and kindness, sorrow and hate.
You are truly blessed more than you may know.🙂
Be greatful, as I'm sure you are, that God the Father chose the plan offered from Jesus the Christ to be the saviour of mankind and further Gods eternal plan. Otherwise we might not be having this conversation. You must have been very special in the spirit world that He sent you here in this time to obtain a body of flesh and bone and know love and kindness, sorrow and hate.
You are truly blessed more than you may know.🙂
"2 Samuel 24:1 and 2 Chronicles 21:1 are not contradictory, but complementary. It was Satan who provoked David to number Israel, and this brought upon them the Lord's anger. This is made plain in 1 Chronicles 21:1. There seem to have been two reasons why God looked upon this as such a serious sin: (1) It was a matter of pride. Compare Prov. 16:18-19. It was the same sin committed by Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 5. (2) It was a matter of misplaced trust. Israel belonged to God, and it was His responsibility to protect the nation. God had instructed the kings not to multiply horses, which would indicate the building of large standing armed forces (Deut. 17:16). David had shifted his faith from God to the arm of flesh. Compare Proverbs 21:3 ; Psalm 127:1; Jeremiah 17:5-7. God looks upon the matter of misplaced trust very seriously. It is misplaced trust which sends men to eternal Hell (John 8:24). The Lord Jesus Christ frequently rebuked the disciples for failing to have faith in God (Matt. 6:30; 8:26; 16:8; Luke 12:28)." Things Hard to Be Understood, A handbook of Biblical difficulties, By David W. Cloud, 1996 page 43.
Anybody can drop the name jesus christ. Whether the jesus christ they are referring to is the same Jesus Christ found in the Bible is dependant solely upon their view of Biblical doctrine. For eg: I believe in jesus christ but I don't believe the virgin birth, then, quite frankly you don't believe in Jesus Christ.
D
GreatBambino
Senior member
1st Article of faith...WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
here's a link.
here's a link.
Tripleshot
Elite Member
Don't worry, sport. Its the real McCoy Jesus Christ we Mormons believe in, not the one you are trying to invent to suit your nieve needs.
You just can't help yourself today, can you? We have extended to you every courtesy that a sane person can. We have provided links for you to read on the subject. You just keep comimg back with your perverted conception of what we do or don't believe. What do you get out of it? Do you think we will change based on what little you put up on this thread? Or are you trying to make sure anyone who reads this thread stears clear of the truth that can be found about our Church in the links provided?
When was the last time you saw a thread started by a Mormon declaring protestents were a cult?
You haven't, because we are not so shallow or empty that we need to re inforce our beliefs at the expense of someone elses.
We accept that you today are not Mormon, leave it at that. You may struggle along with your bias to your last day on earth. So be it. We have given you the oppurtunity to glean from our website the truth about what we believe, not what some monkey on a redneck talk radio show pukes out to get ratings.
Try Mormons again . Here is a short cut for you.😉
Bignate603
Lifer
I have, and I'm still Mormon. I'm not one to follow blindly, I like to have a clue where I'm going.
Bignate603
Lifer
Before I go to bed, here's a thought.
Why do I believe in The LDS Church? Because out of all the things I've read, seen or felt, nothing can shake that feeling I get when I study the scriptures, when I KNOW that I can be with my family for eternity as long as I stay righteous, and that no matter what happens I can always pray for answers when in doubt.
One of the greatest gifts that I've ever had was the accesibility to priesthood holders because of our church. In biblical times you could recieve blessings from a priest. I've witnessed the power of this and have had the privlege of actually acting in the name of the Lord to give a blessing of healing, then seeing the results. Truthfully, spiritually I got as much out of that as the person recieving it did physically. I cannot go back on my testimony because of the things I've seen, the things I've felt. To do so would be to deny the Lord out right because he's given me so much evidence.
I will never give anyone grief about what they believe, I will tell them what I know to be true, but it's their choice to believe it if they want. Free agency is central to the gospel, we can choose what we want, however we are judged on our choices. I've had my faith shaken before but right now it's stronger then it's ever been. Contrary to the points of some of your arguements, studying over my scriptures to answer them strengthened it, rather then weakened it like you thought it would.
With that said, I'm going to say my prayers and go to bed, and actually thank God for a chance to have my testimony strengthened in a very odd way. God does work in mysterious ways, sometimes even in the form of geeks. G'night all.
Why do I believe in The LDS Church? Because out of all the things I've read, seen or felt, nothing can shake that feeling I get when I study the scriptures, when I KNOW that I can be with my family for eternity as long as I stay righteous, and that no matter what happens I can always pray for answers when in doubt.
One of the greatest gifts that I've ever had was the accesibility to priesthood holders because of our church. In biblical times you could recieve blessings from a priest. I've witnessed the power of this and have had the privlege of actually acting in the name of the Lord to give a blessing of healing, then seeing the results. Truthfully, spiritually I got as much out of that as the person recieving it did physically. I cannot go back on my testimony because of the things I've seen, the things I've felt. To do so would be to deny the Lord out right because he's given me so much evidence.
I will never give anyone grief about what they believe, I will tell them what I know to be true, but it's their choice to believe it if they want. Free agency is central to the gospel, we can choose what we want, however we are judged on our choices. I've had my faith shaken before but right now it's stronger then it's ever been. Contrary to the points of some of your arguements, studying over my scriptures to answer them strengthened it, rather then weakened it like you thought it would.
With that said, I'm going to say my prayers and go to bed, and actually thank God for a chance to have my testimony strengthened in a very odd way. God does work in mysterious ways, sometimes even in the form of geeks. G'night all.
Tripleshot
Elite Member
Good night. I agree with you totally. I feel the same way. My faith is unshakable. My testimony has grown. I am empowered because people like you understand, and make it worthwhile. Oh the joy we feel. It would be so nice if others here could feel as we do. This being the season we remember our Lord's birth, it is his life and death/reserection that gives me such hope that all is well. I hope those that read these posts do take the oppurtunity to visit the LDS website. The gift of the Fullness of the Everlasting Gospel is contained in there and is free for the asking.
Peace to all, and to all, Good Night! 😀
pnwmtbiker97
Junior Member
Put the crack pipe down and take a breath :Q before you pass out with all this nonsense!!!
Your convusing me with someone else. I didn't start the topic, nor did I create your beliefs.
Edit: As well I would like to add that this statement "Anybody can drop the name jesus christ. Whether the jesus christ they are referring to is the same Jesus Christ found in the Bible is dependant solely upon their view of Biblical doctrine. For eg: I believe in jesus christ but I don't believe the virgin birth, then, quite frankly you don't believe in Jesus Christ." was not directed solely at Mormons. It was directed at anyone that thinks that just because someone says they believe in jesus christ, does not mean the believe in Jesus Christ. The reason why I stated it in this thread is because it was pointed out that the term Jesus Christ is used on the outside of the building and therefore that means that the LDS is trustworthy and holds to the doctrines espoused in the Bible. Clearly this is not believed by everyone, which is why I made the comment that just because someone claims to believe in jesus christ does not mean they believe in Jesus Christ.
In fact I'm sure there are people who think that my doctrines are incorrect, an obvious assumption due to the fact that I dissagree with their doctrines. Thus the only way to know for sure whether the Christ I speak of is the same one found in the Bible is to read the Bible, and reason for yourself, or if in a group or discussing things in an open forum then reason amongst yourselves whether these things be so.
D
Yes, please provide Biblical support for the doctrine of "literal conception".
D
Precisely then. I understand the passage (Isaiah 14:14) differently. I understand it to mean that Satan wanted the glory and praise which is due only to God, the Creator. Satan wants to be worshipped.
D
Edit G'night Nik 🙂
NikPreviousAcct
No Lifer
'night everybody. 🙂
pnwmtbiker97
Junior Member
I must say I definitely got caught up in this debate and must a apologize 😱 for not bringing grace to the table...I know it's cliche'ish but W.W.J.D. really the heat in this string arguing amongst ourselves about who's right wrong...etc....is the very thing Jesus of Nazareth would not do. 😉
Goodnight -
You see, that's the jump I simply can't make. To go from believing that Christ died for me before I was born to believing that I was in an unknowing spirit state awaiting a body prior to my birth just isn't rational to me.
Are you differentiating between soul and spirit?
D
Are you suggesting that Jesus is not concerned about doctrine. The purpose of the Bible, God's Word, is to provide doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. Man's eternal destiny is based on what he believes, so to suggest that Christ would not care what people believe is blasphemous.
D
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