Is the gtx 470 now the better buy over the 5850?

[yh125d]

Really though, when you buy a 300/400$ card, 180$ cpu,with a high end psu, who puts it in a 50$ case and exspects anything to be cool.

Toyota, stop grinding your teeth, I'm not talking about you bud.

So we can't have a nice system without a full tower case? Tons of people put very robust systems in cases like the Antec 300. The cost doesn't mean jack, it and its peers have better cooling than 90% of the cases out there. Spending more on a case doesn't necessarily get you more cooling, just more features.


Sometimes your train of thought baffles me

 

[Dark Shroud]

Not only that the Antec 300 is not a $50 case. Even if you're buying the plain OEM model with no PSU or extra fans you're still going to have to install three 120mm fans yourself. My gaming case is a HAD 932.

Also size doesn't matter that much in one respect, Nvidia requires cases to have air ducts for/to the video cards to get certified for Fermi cards. See the new HAF X or the Thermaltake Element V Nvidia Edition.

 

[3DVagabond]

It is a bit. ummm... off, let's say for people to complain about power usage, noise, and heat, then in the next sentence, brag on the more efficient cards over volt/over clocking prowess. The HD5870, when looked at for power usage and heat, seems to be the clear cut choice for a high performance card, rather than saving $50.00 and then cranking the piss out of a lower end card.

 

[MagickMan]

Funny all these people with overclocked/overvolted quad cores crying about power consumption and heat.

I generally run my Q9550 at 3.8GHz, which is my max OC while running at stock volts. It runs very cool at 100% load with my H50, it stays at 45-50C gaming and 53C running Prime95. It's about 8C warmer @4.2GHz and 1.36V. I don't need that extra speed, though. It's plenty fast for gaming at 3.8.

Or how much a overvolted/overclocked 5850 pulls or the heat it generates @ 1000 core @ 1.3 volts?

Even at 1050MHz my 5850 core (75C in Crysis) is over 15C cooler under gaming load.

Adding a TRad-2, Scythe GT 120mm, and VRM-R3 improved on that by 2-3C, and more importantly, it's the same ultra-low sound level at idle and load. All that for $70. How much would it cost to do the same with a 470?

Face it, the 470 is (much) hotter, has less OC headroom, is louder, and none of those things can be easily or inexpensively remedied. Take the avg reference 5850 to it's max OC, put another $70 into it, and it'll be faster, cooler, and you'll never hear it in your case.

 

[Tsavo]

well thats great and all so if the 300 doesnt have enough airflow to justify putting a gtx470 in just what the heck does. I read reviews of this case before I bought it and was surprised to find out that it has some of the best airflow out there. sure there are some better cases but the vast majority are worse.

How many reviews did you read that tested the case with a GTX 470? Despite all the glowing reviews of the case from 2008 and tested with a 7600GS, the case to me would not pass muster with a 470.

 

[Grooveriding]

Thread is getting derailed into heat and case discussion, as per usual. Yes video cards are hot, we know this. The room with my main gaming rig is quite big and we have central air. When I game I notice the temperature going up around me and literally feel warmer, and my cards only load out at 75.

The question was if the 470 is a better buy than a 5850.

Per Newegg:

470 $350 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-157-_-Product

5850 $290 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-330-_-Product

Some benches, using 1920x1200 as 2560x1600 neither card can handle on it's own :

As I said before, the 5850 is far and away the better buy if you bought it 9 months ago because you could of had this performance for the past nine months, and per benches, 5850=470. The 470 has a tiny lead, one you probably would not notice in actual use.

That said if you are buying today you need to decide if you see $60 more value in a 470, which does run hotter and louder if you care about that stuff, personally I don't care about power consumption, just performance.

The thing to remember is ATI's new cards are coming in September, and going on the current trend, you get more performance and value out of an ATI card. Per the example of the 5850 vs 470, 5850 offers the same performance and has done so for 9 months now, and cheaper. 470 has offered this same performance for only 1 and a half months, at a higher cost and the 470/480 will be trumped when ATI's new cards drop.

Currently ATI is ahead of the game, if they can maintain this lead and keep releasing cards that perform well and improve significantly on the past release, a la 48XX to 58XX, you will get more performance and value going with one of their cards buying them at release date.

If you haaaave to buy now, then this is not a consideration for you, just if you think the 470 performs $60 better than a 5850, going on benches, you'd be hard pressed to see any difference in most games. But maybe you could find something appealing about NV's feature set over ATI, if you like PhysX over something like Eyefinity.

 

[Tsavo]

As I said before, the 5850 is far and away the better buy if you bought it 9 months ago because you could of had this performance for the past nine months, and per benches, 5850=470. The 470 has a tiny lead, one you probably would not notice in actual use.

That said if you are buying today you need to decide if you see $60 more value in a 470, which does run hotter and louder if you care about that stuff, personally I don't care about power consumption, just performance.

The thing to remember is ATI's new cards are coming in September, and going on the current trend, you get more performance and value out of an ATI card. Per the example of the 5850 vs 470, 5850 offers the same performance and has done so for 9 months now, and cheaper. 470 has offered this same performance for only 1 and a half months, at a higher cost and the 470/480 will be trumped when ATI's new cards drop.

Currently ATI is ahead of the game, if they can maintain this lead and keep releasing cards that perform well and improve significantly on the past release, a la 48XX to 58XX, you will get more performance and value going with one of their cards buying them at release date.

If you haaaave to buy now, then this is not a consideration for you, just if you think the 470 performs $60 better than a 5850, going on benches, you'd be hard pressed to see any difference in most games. But maybe you could find something appealing about NV's feature set over ATI, if you like PhysX over something like Eyefinity.

All very good points! For me the difference is $40, but the real killer for Nvidia isn't Nvidia, But EVGA's killer warranty and product support...which I WANT for a single product costing over $300.

And besides, I can use the GTX 470 to heat my house in the winter...try that with your 5850!

 

[Voo]

I think I agree with the conclusion in the AT review: While I can see some reasons for the 470/480 I don't see the point in the 465: ~10% less performance while being ~10% cheaper - that's all the disadvantages of fermi without the advantage of its bigger brothers.
Seems like neither both companies have problems with the cheapest version of their highperformance cards (the 5830 isn't better..)

 

[Tsavo]

Damn thread has me thinking about a 5850.

Now I know how Luke Skywalker felt...do I join the dark side or do I stay home and eat cup cakes?

Of the following companies, who has the best product support including RMA's: Asus, Gigabyte and Sapphire?

 

[Xarick]

asus 3 year.
It would appear the consensus is that the 470 is faster and has more features but being that the 5850 is cheaper (I got mine for $270) then either is a good buy depending on if you want to deal with less features or more heat/noise.

 

[SlowSpyder]

if you are able to overclock a 5850 high enough to beat a gtx480 then the power consumption and resulting heat would be just as high anyway.

I doubt that's true. AMD's architecture just seems to be more efficient when it comes to FPS/watt. Just a thread I found on a different forum. At just over 1GHz/1.3v it looks like it's around 225w.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=111223

Now don't get me wrong, I understand when you are looking at enthusiast level parts you may have to deal with elevated power/heat/noise. But AMD really has Nvidia beat as far as efficiency goes this round. 5850's seem to be about as sure of a thing as you can get in regards to overclocking, 470's seem more hit and miss. And when you factor in price the 5850 seems to be even more the card to get in my opinion. Just my $.02.

 

[toyota]

I doubt that's true. AMD's architecture just seems to be more efficient when it comes to FPS/watt. Just a thread I found on a different forum. At just over 1GHz/1.3v it looks like it's around 225w.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=111223

Now don't get me wrong, I understand when you are looking at enthusiast level parts you may have to deal with elevated power/heat/noise. But AMD really has Nvidia beat as far as efficiency goes this round. 5850's seem to be about as sure of a thing as you can get in regards to overclocking, 470's seem more hit and miss. And when you factor in price the 5850 seems to be even more the card to get in my opinion. Just my $.02.

you would have to get a 5850 well over 1Ghz to beat a gtx480. at 950 its just matching a 5870 so that means its really got 15-20% more to go to beat the 480.

 

[MagickMan]

So, at 1050 I'm probably kicking a 480 in the nuts, right?

Also, on average (some better, some worse), @930MHz I'm matching a 5870.

 

[happy medium]

So, at 1050 I'm probably kicking a 480 in the nuts, right?

Also, on average (some better, some worse), @930MHz I'm matching a 5870.

Na, I think you need around 1230 core to match a gtx 480.
But , I think unless you use water to cool it ,it will be hotter and louder then the gtx 480.

 

[SlowSpyder]

you would have to get a 5850 well over 1Ghz to beat a gtx480. at 950 its just matching a 5870 so that means its really got 15-20% more to go to beat the 480.

I'm willing to bet a 950-1GHz 5850 will give a 480 a run. I don't know that it'll be faster, but I bet it'll be within a few FPS generally speaking.

 

[happy medium]

I'm willing to bet a 950-1GHz 5850 will give a 480 a run. I don't know that it'll be faster, but I bet it'll be within a few FPS generally speaking.

Well, you need a 930 core overclock to match a 5870. So add another 20/25% to that (with perfect overclocking scaling) and you have a gtx 480.

 

[MagickMan]

Na, I think you need around 1230 core to match a gtx 480.
But , I think unless you use water to cool it ,it will be hotter and louder then the gtx 480.

My 5850 @1050MHz is almost dead silent at full load, you definitely can't hear it over any of the other 120mm Gentle Typhoons in my case. As for heat, it games at 72-75C, that's 20C cooler than NV's flagship.

1230MHz? There you go again, pulling numbers out of your nether regions. At 1050 it's already ~10% faster than a stock 5870, that's 480 territory. To fix that I guess you'd OC the 480... but that produces even more heat and noise. Pretty soon you have a blow dryer sound coming from your case, your internal case temp has climbed 10C, and no slick after-market air cooling solution that can handle it. What then? $250 for water? That does work, and it works well, but then you're $750 into a video card. Good luck with that.

 

[happy medium]

My 5850 @1050MHz is almost dead silent at full load, you definitely can't hear it over any of the other 120mm Gentle Typhoons in my case. As for heat, it games at 72-75C, that's 20C cooler than NV's flagship.

1230MHz? There you go again, pulling numbers out of your nether regions. At that speed it's already ~10% faster than a stock 5870, that's 480 territory. To fix that I guess you'd OC the 480... but that produces even more heat and noise. Pretty soon you have a blow dryer sound coming from your case, your internal case temp has climbed 10C, and no slick after-market air cooling solution that can handle it. What then? $250 for water? That does work, and it works well, but then you're $750 into a video card. Good luck with that.

Your post above says @ 930 it matches a 5870. Now you say it's 10% faster at that speed (1050 core). So your overclock = 10% more and your performance goes up 10%? No way in hell.
With the newest drivers the gtx 480 is at least 20% faster then a 5870 on average.
So add another 15% overclock to match a gtx 480 on average. Unless you think your 5850 scales perfectly with your overclock.

So you have the one 5850 on the planet that can run at 1050 core under stock temps and fan noise of a reference card? I find that hard to believe.

reference 5850's runs at 80c at load but yours does 72c at 1050 core?
AMAZING! are you loading it with Call of Duty 2?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2947/12

Edit : sorry I just seen you have some fancy cooler on your allready cool and quiet card.

Edit 2:

Here is a quote from you in another thread...........

"1050/1300 @1.31V with my new cooling setup is 82C GPU and 98C on the VRMs after 20 minutes of Kombustor with the side of the case open. I kept thinking, "oh shit, they're gonna hit 100C" but they didn't. I had my finger on the Esc key and was a little nervous. haha "

So much for 72c load temps.......Ok you can stop bullshitting now.

 

[tweakboy]

I say the 470 and 5850 very close in benchmarks and games. Id go 470 and wait a few months then get a 480 and live happily ever after. thx

 

[MagickMan]

Your post above says @ 930 it matches a 5870. Now you say it's 10% faster at that speed (1050 core). So your overclock = 10% more and your performance goes up 10%? No way in hell.
With the newest drivers the gtx 480 is at least 20% faster then a 5870 on average.
So add another 15% overclock to match a gtx 480 on average. Unless you think your 5850 scales perfectly with your overclock.

So you have the one 5850 on the planet that can run at 1050 core under stock temps and fan noise of a reference card? I find that hard to believe.

reference 5850's runs at 80c at load but yours does 72c at 1050 core?
AMAZING! are you loading it with Call of Duty 2?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2947/12

Edit : sorry I just seen you have some fancy cooler on your allready cool and quiet card.

You keep backpedaling you're gonna trip over Tweakboy. I doubt you'd notice since you're so busy defending the Empire's flagship from ATI's mid-range performer. Why should that even be happening in the first place?

Just face it, a $300 card with an inexpensive aftermarket cooler comes within spitting distance of a GTX 480, close enough that you can't tell a visible difference, and do it with no noise, much less heat, and uses a lot less power. Good job, maybe someone should tell NV that they need to work harder on this shit because they're getting their asses handed to them out here and they're slowly losing the market that they established. Maybe they should focus on making a fast, efficient, cooler card that competes in all areas, instead of wasting their time with stupid crap that doesn't mean a thing to most gamers.

 

[MagickMan]

Here is a quote from you in another thread...........

"1050/1300 @1.31V with my new cooling setup is 82C GPU and 98C on the VRMs after 20 minutes of Kombustor with the side of the case open. I kept thinking, "oh shit, they're gonna hit 100C" but they didn't. I had my finger on the Esc key and was a little nervous. haha "

So much for 72c load temps.......Ok you can stop bullshitting now.

That's Kombustor, some people call it FURMARK. Ever heard of it? Are you even paying attention? :\

 

[happy medium]

That's Kombustor, some people call it FURMARK. Ever heard of it? Are you even paying attention? :\

82c with after market cooling, I'm paying attention. Same temps as the Palit gtx 470 non reference running Furmark.

Sure its not the 72c you claimed. Next time be more specific. There is a big difference when your claiming 72c when gaming and comparing it to gtx designs using furmark.

Most gtx 4xx designs are in the low 80's/fan speed @ 60/70% when gaming.

 

[toyota]

MagickMan this all goes back to person saying that the gtx480 uses too much power. yet he then says that he could overclock a 5850 to beat the gtx480. first off there is no way you could oc the 5850 enough(on air) to beat the gtx480 in most games. next by the time you modded enough to be right at 480 performance levels it would also be at 480 power consumption levels therefore defeating the whole point of that guys post.

 

[happy medium]

MagickMan this all goes back to person saying that the gtx480 uses too much power. yet he then says that he could overclock a 5850 to beat the gtx480. first off there is no way you could oc the 5850 enough(on air) to beat the gtx480 in most games. next by the time you modded enough to be right at 480 performance levels it would also be at 480 power consumption levels therefore defeating the whole point of that guys post.

Well said.

 

[Grooveriding]

Might as well lock this thread, the resident troll has managed to derail it a second time.