Is the civil war already here?

[Thump553]

The left has always been impotent. The left has not been given actual power by the voters.

You are a remarkably bad student of American history. America has been, at it's gist, a liberal society since it's inception. The American Revolution was a revolt against rule by a foreign monarchy, and one which rejected monarchy completely. The Civil War's main issue was whether a portion of the country had the right to enslave other human beings. Teddy Roosevelt enshrined public ownership and use of lands and made major steps to monopoly breaking and protection of worker's rights, including such things as workers comp.

And I guess you also never heard of FDR, who beat the Great Depression, enacted multiple "liberal" policies such as bank and financing reform and regulation, Social Security, ets. Or of JFK and LBJ, who enacted the Civil Rights Acts (until recently unilaterally gutted the the Supreme Court when it usurped the authority of Congress and deemed itself a defacto legislature) and Medicare.

When are recently in a so-called conservative slant, begun by Reagan, where more and more power and money is being concentrated in a financial aristocracy. Perhaps that will continue resulting in the ultimate collapse of the US, perhaps not, but this relatively recent aberration does not negate what United States was, and what it stood for (until recently).

 

[dank69]

You are a remarkably bad student of American history. America has been, at it's gist, a liberal society since it's inception. The American Revolution was a revolt against rule by a foreign monarchy, and one which rejected monarchy completely. The Civil War's main issue was whether a portion of the country had the right to enslave other human beings. Teddy Roosevelt enshrined public ownership and use of lands and made major steps to monopoly breaking and protection of worker's rights, including such things as workers comp.

And I guess you also never heard of FDR, who beat the Great Depression, enacted multiple "liberal" policies such as bank and financing reform and regulation, Social Security, ets. Or of JFK and LBJ, who enacted the Civil Rights Acts (until recently unilaterally gutted the the Supreme Court when it usurped the authority of Congress and deemed itself a defacto legislature) and Medicare.

When are recently in a so-called conservative slant, begun by Reagan, where more and more power and money is being concentrated in a financial aristocracy. Perhaps that will continue resulting in the ultimate collapse of the US, perhaps not, but this relatively recent aberration does not negate what United States was, and what it stood for (until recently).

I thought it was implied that I was talking about the last 40 years, not the entire history of the US.

 

[gothuevos]

I thought it was implied that I was talking about the last 40 years, not the entire history of the US.

You're both correct.

 

[woolfe9998]

The left has always been impotent. The left has not been given actual power by the voters.

Yes, and some of that is directly the fault of the left. For example, the way that supporting the 2020 summer rioting and "defund the police" hurt the democrats in the election.

The way I see it, we can keep making the same obvious complaints about the right and pretend that there are no problems on the left. If so, that is a recipe for continuing down the path we are currently on, which could well lead to an end of democracy.

The right doesn't care about our complaints and they aren't going to change. So we can either opt for status quo complaining or try to clean up our own back yard.

 

[dank69]

Yes, and some of that is directly the fault of the left. For example, the way that supporting the 2020 summer rioting and "defund the police" hurt the democrats in the election.

The way I see it, we can keep making the same obvious complaints about the right and pretend that there are no problems on the left. If so, that is a recipe for continuing down the path we are currently on, which could well lead to an end of democracy.

The right doesn't care about our complaints and they aren't going to change. So we can either opt for status quo complaining or try to clean up our own back yard.

The way I see it is that the right will make up problems with the left whether there are problems are not. The way I see it is that any and all problems on the left are minuscule compared to all the issues on the right. The way I see it is that anyone who does not recognize that the right is a full-blown fascist threat to democracy and that voting for ANYONE that can beat them is a fucking imperative at this point can go fuck themselves because it is WILLFUL ignorance. There is no reaching these people. How many actual Democrats at the federal level came out for defund the police? How many supported riots? How many are pushing CRT? How many were involved in Mr. Fucking Potato Head and Dr. Fucking Seuss? Any radical shitpost on Twitter immediately becomes "the left." I'll start worrying about nitpicking the left when the GOP is fucking dead, and not a moment sooner.

 

[HomerJS]

Yes, and some of that is directly the fault of the left. For example, the way that supporting the 2020 summer rioting and "defund the police" hurt the democrats in the election.

The way I see it, we can keep making the same obvious complaints about the right and pretend that there are no problems on the left. If so, that is a recipe for continuing down the path we are currently on, which could well lead to an end of democracy.

The right doesn't care about our complaints and they aren't going to change. So we can either opt for status quo complaining or try to clean up our own back yard.

Yes the left needs to clean up their own house but I get really tired that standards are completely different for conservatives and progressives. Do you think in 2008 take all the same qualities Obama had except give him half the bad behavior of Trump, could he have been elected?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Yes, and some of that is directly the fault of the left. For example, the way that supporting the 2020 summer rioting and "defund the police" hurt the democrats in the election.

I think you are wrong. I think the real problem here is that those things didn't bring about any real change. That since at least the 'Occupy Wallstreet' movement the government has been able to successfully repress the voices of the disenfranchised.
Slowly we have been taught that protests are bad things, and that the main goal of the government is to break up protests, by whatever means necessary. It has led to an inability to have legitimate grievances of the people to be peacefully heard and addressed.
That combined with systemic voter disenfranchisement (in it's many forms), mass media propaganda, and an unlimited faucet of money pouring into politics has come together to strip away the 'we the people' part of our government.
The US Government has become mostly concerned with making sure that the majority of the people are dumb and happy. The trouble is that the real problems that we are ignoring are making more people unhappy, but instead of addressing that the government is just working to convince you that the unhappy people are the problem and using that to justify stronger and stronger actions against the malcontents.

 

[sandorski]

The reason the Left is impotent in the US is that, like Stalin, the US also had a Purge of Leftists in the 1950s. It certainly was less murderous/violent, nevertheless it was equally effective. It was one of the greatest Civil Rights violations in US history and Americans are worse off as a result of it.

 

[sandorski]

I think you are wrong. I think the real problem here is that those things didn't bring about any real change. That since at least the 'Occupy Wallstreet' movement the government has been able to successfully repress the voices of the disenfranchised.
Slowly we have been taught that protests are bad things, and that the main goal of the government is to break up protests, by whatever means necessary. It has led to an inability to have legitimate grievances of the people to be peacefully heard and addressed.
That combined with systemic voter disenfranchisement (in it's many forms), mass media propaganda, and an unlimited faucet of money pouring into politics has come together to strip away the 'we the people' part of our government.
The US Government has become mostly concerned with making sure that the majority of the people are dumb and happy. The trouble is that the real problems that we are ignoring are making more people unhappy, but instead of addressing that the government is just working to convince you that the unhappy people are the problem and using that to justify stronger and stronger actions against the malcontents.

French style revolution seems to become increasingly necessary.

 

[Roger Wilco]

We are actively in the bloodiest civil war this country has ever faced IMO.

The Union has mostly found a way to survive the rest of the war with minimal casualties, but the Confederates have chosen mass suicide in their most desperate hour. Covid will continue to evolve and kill as the years pass, and the vaccine-hesitant Confederacy will continue to bleed into its demise.

 

[Jaskalas]

The woke left is too divisive? No, motherfuckers, the right....

I'll start worrying about nitpicking the left when the GOP is fucking dead, and not a moment sooner.

Endorsing race based policy, racism renamed as equity.
Not completely condemning rioting, arson, looting on the streets.
Wanting American blood to spill is clearly not unique to the GOP.

"Nitpicking" is about winning elections. Not harming the "Left", but making it stronger and more appealing to more Americans. The GOP "fucking dead" is a fantasy so long as racism and rioting are apparent DNC policies. It may have lead to the current breakdown in Congress. Meaning no voter protection. No Build Back Better. It weakened Joe Biden's hand, and made a centrist leader impotent.

When it comes to preservation of our Democracy, the "Left" is hardly trying. No young (Read: middle aged) and charismatic leaders that can temper a radical youth and appeal to a wider audience by holding fast to the pulse of American voters. An organized campaign that knows you cannot win favor by giving voters the notion that you are coming for them with immoral and harmful practices. When people think you stand for racism and looting, the GOP has already won. You can combat that with better discourse, a better campaign.

Or you can give up and arm yourself.

 

[Leymenaide]

Yes it is seeing as if the Repubs already have their very own president and supreme court.

and their very own police.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Endorsing race based policy, racism renamed as equity.
Not completely condemning rioting, arson, looting on the streets.
Wanting American blood to spill is clearly not unique to the GOP.

"Nitpicking" is about winning elections. Not harming the "Left", but making it stronger and more appealing to more Americans. The GOP "fucking dead" is a fantasy so long as racism and rioting are apparent DNC policies. It may have lead to the current breakdown in Congress. Meaning no voter protection. No Build Back Better. It weakened Joe Biden's hand, and made a centrist leader impotent.

When it comes to preservation of our Democracy, the "Left" is hardly trying. No young (Read: middle aged) and charismatic leaders that can temper a radical youth and appeal to a wider audience by holding fast to the pulse of American voters. An organized campaign that knows you cannot win favor by giving voters the notion that you are coming for them with immoral and harmful practices. When people think you stand for racism and looting, the GOP has already won. You can combat that with better discourse, a better campaign.

Or you can give up and arm yourself.

Propaganda wins again. Gg america

 

[SMOGZINN]

Endorsing race based policy, racism renamed as equity.
Not completely condemning rioting, arson, looting on the streets.
Wanting American blood to spill is clearly not unique to the GOP.

This is exactly what I was talking about. People complain? They are rioting. If it is too peaceful, a little tear gas can fix that.

 

[ch33zw1z]

This is exactly what I was talking about. People complain? They are rioting. If it is too peaceful, a little tear gas can fix that.

GOP is totally ok with racism and rioting, as long as it's the right people doing it.

 

[HomerJS]

Endorsing race based policy, racism renamed as equity.
Not completely condemning rioting, arson, looting on the streets.
Wanting American blood to spill is clearly not unique to the GOP.

"Nitpicking" is about winning elections. Not harming the "Left", but making it stronger and more appealing to more Americans. The GOP "fucking dead" is a fantasy so long as racism and rioting are apparent DNC policies. It may have lead to the current breakdown in Congress. Meaning no voter protection. No Build Back Better. It weakened Joe Biden's hand, and made a centrist leader impotent.

When it comes to preservation of our Democracy, the "Left" is hardly trying. No young (Read: middle aged) and charismatic leaders that can temper a radical youth and appeal to a wider audience by holding fast to the pulse of American voters. An organized campaign that knows you cannot win favor by giving voters the notion that you are coming for them with immoral and harmful practices. When people think you stand for racism and looting, the GOP has already won. You can combat that with better discourse, a better campaign.

Or you can give up and arm yourself.

Talking from the party actively trying to disenfranchise voters and subvert free and fair elections? Greater threat??

 

[dank69]

...

"Nitpicking" is about winning elections.

...

No, it fucking isn't. The top 100 criticisms of the left today are based on complete fiction.

 

[woolfe9998]

The way I see it is that the right will make up problems with the left whether there are problems are not. The way I see it is that any and all problems on the left are minuscule compared to all the issues on the right. The way I see it is that anyone who does not recognize that the right is a full-blown fascist threat to democracy and that voting for ANYONE that can beat them is a fucking imperative at this point can go fuck themselves because it is WILLFUL ignorance. There is no reaching these people. How many actual Democrats at the federal level came out for defund the police? How many supported riots? How many are pushing CRT? How many were involved in Mr. Fucking Potato Head and Dr. Fucking Seuss? Any radical shitpost on Twitter immediately becomes "the left." I'll start worrying about nitpicking the left when the GOP is fucking dead, and not a moment sooner.

First of all, based on the totality of my postings here, you should already know that I am aware that the right has turned to fascism. That is exactly why I'm criticizing the left as frequently as I am.

I disagree that the left's behavior, or that of certain people on the left, is not at times contributing to the problem. And at other times is dividing us to the point where we cannot effectively react. We are not only alienating swing voters, but also eating our own with this woke bullshit.

One of the things that right wing propagandists are adept at is taking fringe ideas of the left, often from activist types, and pretending that it's a mainstream position on the left. Things like open borders, gun confiscation, or various ideas of radical feminists. Unfortunately today, the mainstream media, which is playing to a liberal market, is aiding and abetting them at this. By pretending that the most extreme ideas of the left are mainstream and now the new cultural zeitgeist.

As a lone example, a few weeks back I read an article on cnn.com which was about the fact that they had hired a white Dutch person to translate Amanda Gorman's poetry into Dutch. The article treats this as if it is inarguably a bad thing, and informs us that of course this person was fired because of course it's racist to have any white person translate a black poet's work into any language. No contra opinions are quoted. Daily I read drivel like this on nytimes.com, wapo, cnn.

Don't even get me started on how the media has pitted the left and the black community against police through its selective and highly biased reporting on police shootings. I guess if there's an actual civil war, it's better that police think that everyone on the left hates them. You'd certainly get that idea very quickly by reading this very discussion board.

Given the way identity politics is framed today by big media, as well as popular culture by way of Hollywood, one can be forgiven for assuming that all this is totally mainstream on the left. Particularly if you don't know that many liberals in real life as I do.

Forget about the hardcore Trumpists. They are lost forever. Yet there are still swing voters out there. There are also some former dems who turned to Trump. There is evidence that older black and Latino voters are turning to the republicans. And there are plenty of people on the left who are just not willing to fight the right hard enough in part because they are also pissed off at the left. Liberals need to speak out not only against the right, but against problems on the left, and without fearing being labelled a racist for doing so.

When the Nazis took over in Germany, it wasn't just an authoritarian takeover which came out of nowhere. It was a direct result of the weakness of the Weimar republic, its institutions, and the people who supported it. The weaknesses with today's left are different weakness, but they are just as consequential. We can always say, "oh it's the fascists, they are just bad people." And yes, of course, they are. They're the worst. But so what? So what that they are "worse" then we are. What is our prize for being better when we still suck? They win. That's our prize.

So what are we going to do about it beyond sitting around complaining about how bad they are?

 

[Aikouka]

Don't even get me started on how the media has pitted the left and the black community against police through its selective and highly biased reporting on police shootings. I guess if there's an actual civil war, it's better that police think that everyone on the left hates them. You'd certainly get that idea very quickly by reading this very discussion board.

But aren't you describing both sets of people making the example same logical faux pas? You're suggesting that left-leaning voters assume that all police are morally corrupt/bankrupt, and that as a result of this portrayal, police and their supporters assume that all left-leaning voters hate the police. It isn't hard to pick out the problematic word that I used twice... "assume". One of the problems that we tend to get is that people love to speak with a broad brush where they apply one idea, which may certainly be valid for some, to everyone.

Ultimately, generalizing is a problem. It may not be readily apparent, but I know that I personally try to avoid it in my posts. If you take a look at what I write, I tend to make sure that I speak of generalized subsets of a group. For example, I may say "some Republicans" rather than just "Republicans".

 

[woolfe9998]

But aren't you describing both sets of people making the example same logical faux pas? You're suggesting that left-leaning voters assume that all police are morally corrupt/bankrupt, and that as a result of this portrayal, police and their supporters assume that all left-leaning voters hate the police. It isn't hard to pick out the problematic word that I used twice... "assume". One of the problems that we tend to get is that people love to speak with a broad brush where they apply one idea, which may certainly be valid for some, to everyone.

I agree, it isn't rational to assume everyone on the left hates police. But my point is that the media is presenting an apparent cultural zeitgeist where that seems to be the case. Because the activists who they quote DO hate the police. So as I said, one can be forgiven for assuming it even if the reality of actual rank and file liberals is different.

Just take one example. That Minneapolis council woman who was interviewed on CNN that summer, who wanted to defund the police, and in response to a question about about what happens if someone breaks into your house, and instead of reassuring her constituents of their own safety, she says that expecting 911 service is an example of "white privilege." I mean, why did they even interview that imbecile to begin with? How many votes did that interview cost the dems in November, so that CNN can boost its ratings and ad revenue by giving air to the most extreme views out there?

If liberals start to speak out more about this, the media will shift. Because conservatives left MSM a long time ago, liberals are their market. And that is all they are doing is playing to a market.

Ultimately, generalizing is a problem. It may not be readily apparent, but I know that I personally try to avoid it in my posts. If you take a look at what I write, I tend to make sure that I speak of generalized subsets of a group. For example, I may say "some Republicans" rather than just "Republicans".

Good practice.

 

[dank69]

First of all, based on the totality of my postings here, you should already know that I am aware that the right has turned to fascism.

I know this and assumed you knew I know this considering I recognized you when you came back as 9998 and asked you if you were 9999. I pay pretty close attention to who posts what on this sub.

That is exactly why I'm criticizing the left as frequently as I am.

I believe this hurts more than it helps in the current political climate. Most people, especially swing voters, do not pay attention to details or nuances when it comes to politics. You write something like "Democrats are too woke but Republicans are fascist" and 99% of people that don't already recognize that Republicans are fascist are going to come away with "Democrats are too woke" and completely ignore the rest.

I disagree that the left's behavior, or that of certain people on the left, is not at times contributing to the problem. And at other times is dividing us to the point where we cannot effectively react.

Explain exactly who these people on the left are because they aren't politicians at the federal level. They are usually random internet strangers and bloggers.

We are not only alienating swing voters, but also eating our own with this woke bullshit.

Please, think for a damn second about the mentality of a person who is a swing voter in this political climate. Think about the amount of apathy and/or brainwashing required to be a swing voter in this political climate. If someone hasn't been reached by now, no amount of coddling is going to overcome it. No amount of badgering will overcome it either. Barring the completely apathetic, these are people actively searching for any and every reason to criticize Democrats to maintain the belief that both sides are just as bad. They will read the above and come away with "Democrats are too woke" because that is what they want. It is what they have always wanted and will always want.

One of the things that right wing propagandists are adept at is taking fringe ideas of the left, often from activist types, and pretending that it's a mainstream position on the left. Things like open borders, gun confiscation, or various ideas of radical feminists. Unfortunately today, the mainstream media, which is playing to a liberal market, is aiding and abetting them at this. By pretending that the most extreme ideas of the left are mainstream and now the new cultural zeitgeist.

I take issue with your assertion that mainstream media is playing to a liberal market, on many levels. First of all, and again I know you know this, conservative media is mainstream. Just calling everything else mainstream media is playing into their hands. Do us all a favor and refer to it as "not batshit rightwing media (NBRM)" because that's what it is. Secondly, if NBRM is playing to liberals, and I'm not conceding that it is, it would be because batshit rightwingers avoid consuming it, which naturally means their consumers skew liberal. As you know, media outlets publish for the clicks, and outrage generates clicks. If you want to blame someone for being divisive, put the blame where it belongs: on the media and not on Democrats. We could probably count on one hand the number of legitimately divisive statements made by Democrats and even those would be open to debate.

As a lone example, a few weeks back I read an article on cnn.com which was about the fact that they had hired a white Dutch person to translate Amanda Gorman's poetry into Dutch. The article treats this as if it is inarguably a bad thing, and informs us that of course this person was fired because of course it's racist to have any white person translate a black poet's work into any language. No contra opinions are quoted. Daily I read drivel like this on nytimes.com, wapo, CNN.

This sounds like an editorial. How would you address your concerns here? I mean, what is the solution? The media can publish whatever the fuck it wants, however it wants. On a side note, my initial reaction to this story was disgust, similar to that which you are conveying. However, I am working on training myself to thoroughly examine things that trigger disgust and have come up with the following: how can I, a white male, criticize what that author feels about that issue? To outsiders like us, there are likely a myriad of complexities with just this one issue that we don't realize and may never understand.

Don't even get me started on how the media has pitted the left and the black community against police through its selective and highly biased reporting on police shootings.

The police and their unions are doing all that just fine without the help of the media. Sure, the media isn't helping, whether it be because of the race to be first rather than accurate, or because of a desire to maximize clicks, but I do not believe the media to be the primary cause.

I guess if there's an actual civil war, it's better that police think that everyone on the left hates them. You'd certainly get that idea very quickly by reading this very discussion board.

Police already think people on the left hate them and that POC hate them. They have always thought that, and for the most part, they are fucking right. Unlike the right-wing, I refuse to cater to evil in order to achieve my political goals.

Given the way identity politics is framed today by big media, as well as popular culture by way of Hollywood, one can be forgiven for assuming that all this is totally mainstream on the left. Particularly if you don't know that many liberals in real life as I do.

I'll need an example of how identity politics is "framed" by big media or popular culture. In my experience, this almost always translates to "I don't care what gay people do in their bedrooms I just don't want it in my face" type of bullshit. Catering to bigots is a fool's errand.

Forget about the hardcore Trumpists. They are lost forever. Yet there are still swing voters out there. There are also some former dems who turned to Trump. There is evidence that older black and Latino voters are turning to the republicans. And there are plenty of people on the left who are just not willing to fight the right hard enough in part because they are also pissed off at the left. Liberals need to speak out not only against the right, but against problems on the left, and without fearing being labelled a racist for doing so.

See above for my thoughts on catering to swing voters. You want to cater to any of these groups you are going to have to go big to punch through the apathy and drag the cretins kicking and screaming. There is no other option.

When the Nazis took over in Germany, it wasn't just an authoritarian takeover which came out of nowhere. It was a direct result of the weakness of the Weimar republic, its institutions, and the people who supported it. The weaknesses with today's left are different weakness, but they are just as consequential. We can always say, "oh it's the fascists, they are just bad people." And yes, of course, they are. They're the worst. But so what? So what that they are "worse" then we are. What is our prize for being better when we still suck? They win. That's our prize.

The point is that Democrats do not suck. They are far from perfect but they are also far from sucking. The only reason they haven't fixed most of everything is that they have not been given the power to change anything for 40 years, except a few months where they were able to push the ACA through. It isn't messaging. It isn't their flaws. It is a fucking sick population susceptible to misinformation and lies. Period.

So what are we going to do about it beyond sitting around complaining about how bad they are?

That's the $500M question, isn't it? The best I have come up with is stop tolerating bullshit. Shut that shit down in our personal lives ASAP. I don't have any personal contact and dialog with any conservatives other than my mother but I needle her constantly. She is so close to breaking through but the mental devices they employ to prevent reason are relentless. The most effective question I have found so far is "Imagine that Democrats gain full control of the federal government for 10-12 years. What is the worst thing you think will realistically happen in that scenario?" Any answer(s) they give to that question can be ripped apart. Make them feel fucking crazy for believing crazy, as it should be. Until you show people their fears are unfounded nothing will change.

 

[dank69]

...

Just take one example. That Minneapolis council woman who was interviewed on CNN that summer, who wanted to defund the police, and in response to a question about about what happens if someone breaks into your house, and instead of reassuring her constituents of their own safety, she says that expecting 911 service is an example of "white privilege." I mean, why did they even interview that imbecile to begin with? How many votes did that interview cost the dems in November, so that CNN can boost its ratings and ad revenue by giving air to the most extreme views out there?

...

This is a prime example of why I often just don't care anymore. 911 is a joke, even for white people. When seconds count, the cops are minutes away. A person who has not realized this yet is unreachable. I didn't need to be personally affected by this truth to know it affects millions and understand it is reality. The comment about it being white privilege is dead nuts accurate. If you haven't been personally affected by this truth, there is a real good chance you are white. I swear to god, the human experiment is over. We need a huge fucking comet to just end it.

I get it Woolfe. You are a rational person and are playing the game where every vote counts. It seems to me though that very few races are decided by thin margins anymore. As we all know, Republicans are doing everything in their power to keep it that way, and Americans refuse to give Democrats the power to change any of it.

 

[uclaLabrat]

You are a remarkably bad student of American history. America has been, at it's gist, a liberal society since it's inception. The American Revolution was a revolt against rule by a foreign monarchy, and one which rejected monarchy completely. The Civil War's main issue was whether a portion of the country had the right to enslave other human beings. Teddy Roosevelt enshrined public ownership and use of lands and made major steps to monopoly breaking and protection of worker's rights, including such things as workers comp.

And I guess you also never heard of FDR, who beat the Great Depression, enacted multiple "liberal" policies such as bank and financing reform and regulation, Social Security, ets. Or of JFK and LBJ, who enacted the Civil Rights Acts (until recently unilaterally gutted the the Supreme Court when it usurped the authority of Congress and deemed itself a defacto legislature) and Medicare.

When are recently in a so-called conservative slant, begun by Reagan, where more and more power and money is being concentrated in a financial aristocracy. Perhaps that will continue resulting in the ultimate collapse of the US, perhaps not, but this relatively recent aberration does not negate what United States was, and what it stood for (until recently).

Your examples illustrate at least to me the opposite: that the US exhibits sporadic outbursts of liberalism in response to existential crises, which are brought on by intrinsic devotion to conservativism outside of existential crises.

That suggests that the US reverts to conservativism until it literally threatens our way of life.

 

[Stokely]

IMO, yes.

It isn't lines of musket-bearing infantry wearing different uniforms. The battle lines are everywhere, even inside homes.

We are at war and it's getting worse, as misinformation becomes ever easier to spread. There are multiple realities, and the common ground is getting less and less between them. I used to be independent but registered D because there's no chance of me ever voting GOP again, they have gone too far over the cliff. Most people I know are Republican, and they certainly feel the same way about me. The only way I get along with the people I have to is to avoid politics completely.

For an example of a multiple-reality conversation that isn't politics, I was involved with one where I used to work between an ultra-Christian person and an atheist, about Evolution. There just is a basic gap between those two realities, they are mutually exclusive. One person thinks a deity waved species into being in pretty much their present state (no macro-evolution), the other says that didn't happen and species diverged wildly over millions of years. End of conversation, that or you just talk past each other.

The only way this war ends (other than some roundup of heretics or something truly extreme) would be if people truly start valuing objective fact. We can disagree on what those facts mean, but if we can't agree on the basic realities there's no talking. I don't have much hope that will happen. Hell a data engineer I work with believes qanon nonsense about the vaccines, and this is an educated person who makes a good living making sure data is accurate, spouting looney bullshit that makes flat earth theories look sane....

 

[Moonbeam]

Merrick Garland on Capitol attack: 'The actions we have taken thus far will not be our last'

By Tierney Sneed, CNN In a sweeping speech marking the one-year anniversary of the Capitol attack, Attorney General Merrick Garland pushed back on criticism that the Justice Department’s January 6 probe has not been aggressive enough, while signaling that no one would be off limits as...

abc17news.com

The latest update I am aware of on Milktoast Garland. Lots of promising talk.........

When will we see meaningful results, not that what I might think is meaningful is the real thing, I wonder.