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Is the Chavez honeymoon almost over for Latin America

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Chavez's seizure of the press in Venezuala, and subsequent creation of a state run media, and his terror tactics against those that voted against him are definately anti-democracy but I believe the proof will be in the pudding when Chavez finishes his re-write of the venezulan constitution. I have no doubt, being a Castro follower, that it will contain provisions that he can assume absolute control of the country and eliminate elections. And when the oil money runs dry which I don't doubt is going to happen sooner, rather than later the country will fall to stagnation and he being the dictator he aspires to be will live in a state of wealth while the populous lives in abject poverty, just like Castro.

It was also interesting to me that after Boliva seized all the foreign investment in the country hurting their largest neighbor badly, that shortly thereafter and very low key it was announced that Venezuala would be taking over delivery and management of all the Bolivian fossil fuel resources. So in effect they kicked Brazil out and gave Venezuala control. Is that to the benefit to Boliva and south america in general?
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Stealing power? From where?

How has he stole anything?
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I have seen, and in a past thread, posted reports. You claimed they were BS, but provided no backup.

See Steeple, you are nothing but the opposite side of the same coin as Dave or any other fundie, you claim differently, but when it comes down to it, you are not.


 
Originally posted by: rahvin
Chavez's seizure of the press in Venezuala
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Ok when did he "sieze" the press, they were on a never ending americanesque slamming fest, beyond all responsible jouralism to the point of being obvious shills of the us.

Sure, plenty hate bush but it would not be excusable if people were on fox day in day out telling a people who knew it was BS that bush was actually satan and ate babies that day kinda thing, either provide evidence or quit with the attacks. It is irresponsible. I hate fox irl for the same reason, all baseless accusations and no real news.
 
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Stealing power? From where?

How has he stole anything?
Click to expand...


I have seen, and in a past thread, posted reports. You claimed they were BS, but provided no backup.

See Steeple, you are nothing but the opposite side of the same coin as Dave or any other fundie, you claim differently, but when it comes down to it, you are not.
Click to expand...



So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.

The media in venz is corporate owned gangsters and waiting for the usa to invade so they can have their cake and eat it too, just like cuban refugees, and we back their lies.

Granted, we have not been funding terrorism against chavez lately as we did castro, but all things come to those who wait.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot

So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.

The media in venz is corporate owned gangsters and waiting for the usa to invade so they can have their cake and eat it too, just like cuban refugees, and we back their lies.

Granted, we have not been funding terrorism against chavez lately as we did castro, but all things come to those who wait.
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So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.
 
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Steeplerot

So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.

The media in venz is corporate owned gangsters and waiting for the usa to invade so they can have their cake and eat it too, just like cuban refugees, and we back their lies.

Granted, we have not been funding terrorism against chavez lately as we did castro, but all things come to those who wait.
Click to expand...

So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.
Click to expand...



So back up your tinfoil chavez is eating good capitalist babies propaganda or quit wasting ATs forum bandwidth. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Steeplerot

So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.

The media in venz is corporate owned gangsters and waiting for the usa to invade so they can have their cake and eat it too, just like cuban refugees, and we back their lies.

Granted, we have not been funding terrorism against chavez lately as we did castro, but all things come to those who wait.
Click to expand...

So you say, yet I see no linkage as usual.
Click to expand...



So back up your tinfoil chavez is eating good capitalist babies propaganda or quit wasting ATs forum bandwidth. 😉
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Dude, can you ever just provide any information or are you just another troll like Dave? At least he posts some links to his outlandish claims. All I am asking for is proof. I am not saying you are right or wrong.

Seriously...

 
And once again someone is going to tell you, you look up your own accusations, I could care less what the anti-chavez pro-american POV is, I can probably guess today it is something new like chavez sells his grandma and the pawnshop to buy lenins corpse or whatever spin, twisting of his words or outright lie it is today.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
And once again someone is going to tell you, you look up your own accusations, I could care less what the anti-chavez pro-american POV is, I can probably guess today it is something new like chavez sells his grandma and the pawnshop to buy lenins corpse or whatever spin, twisting of his words or outright lie it is today.
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I am not making accusations, just asking you to back up yours. Amazing how that works, backing up one's own word. Perhaps if you did more of that people might actually listen to you.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
And once again someone is going to tell you, you look up your own accusations, I could care less what the anti-chavez pro-american POV is, I can probably guess today it is something new like chavez sells his grandma and the pawnshop to buy lenins corpse or whatever spin, twisting of his words or outright lie it is today.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing though, there are more than two trains of thought on Chavez. You have people who think he is a dictator and that's it. Then you have someone like yourself, thinking everything is fine and it is just rhetoric from Bush people are scared of. But there's a third group who believe there is room for concern about Chavez; that he is encroaching on democracy; that he is working with unsavory people; that he is trying to destabilize certain areas.
 
Just bumping this to see if Steeple was just going to ignore it, or actually put his money where his mouth is.
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You'll probably be waiting for a while. He's too intellectually invested in the Chavez experiment to admit the very real problems in the country, some of which either Chavez has not helped or has worsened - for example, poverty and crime are up in Venezuela even with the additional money Chavez has been putting into social programs. He also seems to be quite comfortable (if not downright smitten) with authoritarianism as long as it's in a leftist, anti-American, and populist wrapper.

But then again he's mirrored by the reflexively anti-Chavez folks here who can't/won't find anything positive that he has accomplished - as Rahvin points out he's made some ominous moves to consolidate power and allow himself to become a permanent dictator. However it's just as much true that the opposition is the gang which can't shoot straight and can't find a credible candidate to run against him.

Just like with most other things, take a pinch of what one ATOT partisan says, a dash of what a partisan on the opposite side says, add a whole bunch of outside information that's not nearly so biased, and you'll basically have a reasonable understanding of the truth.
 
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
And once again someone is going to tell you, you look up your own accusations, I could care less what the anti-chavez pro-american POV is, I can probably guess today it is something new like chavez sells his grandma and the pawnshop to buy lenins corpse or whatever spin, twisting of his words or outright lie it is today.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing though, there are more than two trains of thought on Chavez. You have people who think he is a dictator and that's it. Then you have someone like yourself, thinking everything is fine and it is just rhetoric from Bush people are scared of. But there's a third group who believe there is room for concern about Chavez; that he is encroaching on democracy; that he is working with unsavory people; that he is trying to destabilize certain areas.
Click to expand...



That's fine, but until they can show there is reason for concern, instead of a endless stream of lies I think chavez is doing a great job (for as screwed up as that coutry is), his actions speak for himself. What you have are a bunch of tittering little whiners who gotcut out on big money, same deal with castro, the american mafia got he boot, thus castro= eternal enemy even though he has been pretty well behaved for ages now.

Sorry, looks like the thugs who run the show here are going to have to launder their money in barbados still, or rape some other country for the oil for the time being, venz and cuba are not having their sh1t anymore and I dont blame them.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Strk
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
And once again someone is going to tell you, you look up your own accusations, I could care less what the anti-chavez pro-american POV is, I can probably guess today it is something new like chavez sells his grandma and the pawnshop to buy lenins corpse or whatever spin, twisting of his words or outright lie it is today.
Click to expand...

Here's the thing though, there are more than two trains of thought on Chavez. You have people who think he is a dictator and that's it. Then you have someone like yourself, thinking everything is fine and it is just rhetoric from Bush people are scared of. But there's a third group who believe there is room for concern about Chavez; that he is encroaching on democracy; that he is working with unsavory people; that he is trying to destabilize certain areas.
Click to expand...


That's fine, but until they can show there is reason for concern, instead of a endless stream of lies I think chavez is doing a great job (for as screwed up as that coutry is), his actions speak for himself. What you have are a bunch of tittering little whiners who gotcut out on big money, same deal with castro, the american mafia got he boot, thus castro= eternal enemy even though he has been pretty well behaved for ages now.
Click to expand...

Again, proof to back up your claims?


Seriously dude, you are so fekkin weak. All you can do is post rhetoric, but when somebody asks you for some reasonable backup, you fail miserably. Keep it up sparky, because you are just a big disappointment. Here, I thought I'd actually find something of value, but overall you do nothing more than what O'Reily does, talk smack, spout rhetoric, yell, flame, pigeonhole, and then cower when somebody asks you to back it up.

Pathetic.


 
You are the one making accusations and demanding others to back your own crap up, save your whining or show your proof chavez is a dictator.

It is plain stupid for you to demand I prove a false statement that you make.



Here is your logic:

"The sky is purple! I say so! Prove me wrong!"

Ok now prove it, the sky is purple, I said so and I want you to find evidence.
 
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
You are the one making accusations and demanding others to back your own crap up, save your whining or show your proof chavez is a dictator.
Click to expand...

Rofl, post where I made an accusation? Come on sparky, you can do it! All I have consistantly asked for is proof of anything you post. yet you utterly fail in all categories.

If you have a stance, then post the damn thing so people might actually understand where you are coming from. If not, then STFU because you are nothing more than a talking head.

I DO NOT KNOW he is a dictator, are you just to stinking dense to understand that? People say he is, I have seen some proof. You say he isn't, where is your proof?

Geez, you are worse than arguing with a fundamental righty, at least they can point to robertson and drool. You just sit there and bitch that nobody understands you while never giving them anything to understand.

What a damn dolt.
 
Like I said, you say he is a dictator, the burden of proof is on you.

Now prove to me the sky is purple, becasue I say it is.
 
I wouldn't agree with the post you quoted fully, nor yours fully.

Chavez seems to be in the position of grabbing the power by leveraging the poor people and then grabbing more power by making sure nobody can oust him. Now, we cannot assume that he is doing so to become a complete dictator with the intent of *not* helping the poor people, or we can assume he is doing it for only helping.

Personally, I believe his original intent was to struggle against a corrupt establishment, but that has become lost in a power grab and corruption. Overall, who will benefit? I doubt many people at all, much like Cuba, the entire society is frozen in time and advancements are withheld for the powerful only.

Democracy in Venezuela has taken a hit, from all unbiased accounts. WHether or not that is a good thing will only be evident in a few more years.



here is what I originally posted.

So there, what do you have to answer my questions? Anything troll?
 
The answer to all your questions are right at your fingertips, click "search" then type CHAVEZ, select P&N and there you are, we have been over him a million times.
 
Blogs and right-wing sites, yes I have seen those posted before, your point?

Hint: You know, if you followed my advice instead of google searching you would find many many threads with me in it.

So, what is your issue? Care to quote something? Or are you just in a copy and paste mood?
 
Geez, you are worse than arguing with a fundamental righty, at least they can point to robertson and drool.
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Pat Robertson is definitely not even a Christian, but is instead a rapid self promoter and phony "christiam empire builder. A man loaded with heresy. The total complete opposite of true fundamental core christianity that is based solely on YHWH's Word.

Whenever you run into one of these Neo-Evangelicals and are tempted to play the shell game of wrongly switching labels on them, obsurdly calling them a "fundamentalist", plug the name into this search engine and read your results.

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/robertson/general.htm

Pat Robertson is a Judas Goat. By that i mean the Bush Regime will deploy it's master political manipulater Karl Rove (a Joseph Goebbels clone) to aquire Judas Goats to herd millions of duped "christians" to ultimately their deaths actually.

Look how hard hooked they have Pat Robertson in tow behind the Bush Regime. Pat says assassinate Chavez. Why? Because Pat is a player in various hard right wing phony christian organizations who have an agenda.

I don't know enough about Chavez to catagorize his place in the scheme of things. It appears that he is not going along with the New World Order Central Banker plan for World control and domination. I see him trying to form a coalition against it in fact. Among other South and Central American and Caribbean Nations. Chavez is indeed an interesting study subject. News that he is moving to sell oil in Euroes will certainly ruffle a lot of feathers. Such a move shifts power away from the Bush Crime Syndicate that now as puppets for a higher power occupies the office of USA President.
 
Pat Robertson is definitely not even a Christian, but is instead a rapid self promoter and phony "christiam empire builder. A man loaded with heresy. The total complete opposite of true fundamental core christianity that is based solely on YHWH's Word.

Whenever you run into one of these Neo-Evangelicals and are tempted to play the shell game of wrongly switching labels on them, obsurdly calling them a "fundamentalist", plug the name into this search engine and read your results.

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/robertson/general.htm

Pat Robertson is a Judas Goat. By that i mean the Bush Regime will deploy it's master political manipulater Karl Rove (a Joseph Goebbels clone) to aquire Judas Goats to herd millions of duped "christians" to ultimately their deaths actually.

Look how hard hooked they have Pat Robertson in tow behind the Bush Regime. Pat says assassinate Chavez. Why? Because Pat is a player in various hard right wing phony christian organizations who have an agenda.

I don't know enough about Chavez to catagorize his place in the scheme of things. It appears that he is not going along with the New World Order Central Banker plan for World control and domination. I see him trying to form a coalition against it in fact. Among other South and Central American and Caribbean Nations. Chavez is indeed an interesting study subject. News that he is moving to sell oil in Euroes will certainly ruffle a lot of feathers. Such a move shifts power away from the Bush Crime Syndicate that now as puppets for a higher power occupies the office of USA President.
Click to expand...

That's a shame. You started off strong with a powerful (and IMHO correct) first paragraph and then it just went to hell. It's been a while since I've seen someone go from making sense to complete nutjob conspiracy theory in such a short amount of time.
 
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