Is the California Recall Unconstitutional/Fair?

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emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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This Law professor argues that the recall is unconstitutional. He argues that the first question (Keep/Remove) requires a majority vote but the 2nd question (who replaces him) just requires a planarity and Newsom isn't on the 2nd question. So a candidate could win with a smaller percentage than Newsom gets on the Keep/Remove question. I didn't know this but seems rather unfair to me. He should be on the 2nd question as well. Thoughts?

Aside: Was going to cancel my Nytimes sub but maybe I won't.

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | There Is a Problem With California’s Recall. It’s Unconstitutional. (Published 2021)

Governor Newsom can receive far more votes than any other candidate but still be removed from office.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
hal2kilo

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,506
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It a very flawed law. The bar is way too low for reasons to remove a governor in the first place. This is just a rigged chance (I will explain the rigged part) to have a do over.
It's rigged because special elections bring out the people who were mostly for the reason of the special election. Unfortunately, the people who have no problem with the current leadership, don't seem to get motivated enough to show up. The people who get these special elections going, know this.
I lived in OC when Gray Davis was screwed.
 
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E

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
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hal2kilo said:
It a very flawed law. The bar is way too low for reasons to remove a governor in the first place. This is just a rigged chance (I will explain the rigged part) to have a do over.
It's rigged because special elections bring out the people who were mostly for the reason of the special election. Unfortunately, the people who have no problem with the current leadership, don't seem to get motivated enough to show up. The people who get these special elections going, know this.
I lived in OC when Gray Davis was screwed.
Click to expand...

Why haven't California Pols fixed it then?
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lifer
Nov 17, 2019
13,435
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I guess one could argue that anyone who votes 'Keep' has already made the choice of who should be in office. Only those that vote to change would have to make a choice of who with.
 
K

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
6,032
1,348
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California recall election is unfair for the sitting governor. Say there are exactly 1 more YES vote to recall vs NO and the rest of the candidates split the YES votes, Newsom still get removed even though he essentially gets the most votes. It just does not make any sense to me.
 
sportage

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
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CA is recall happy. It's easy to get enough signatures for any cause no matter how lame or ridiculous. Just hang out in any grocery store parking lot with a clipboard, and you can get people to sign anything. Was a time (and probably has not changed) when enough signatures could be collected to put the craziest notions on a election ballot up for vote. And they passed!!! But the passed law or issue was so costly to enforce or so impossible to turn into actual law that it was not allowed to become law despite the voters. Like that time some idiot believed that every telephone pole should be painted green with a big bright yellow topper on top. You know, all those ugly telephone poles looking just like a big pretty giant fluffy dandelion. They gathered the signatures, the voters passed the law via ballot, and not one telephone pole was ever painted green yet alone adorned with a big giant yellow dandelion.

I loved old CA, but they are nutz. They would trade THIS for THAT simply because they didn't like living under the pandemic. WHile everyone else was blaming China, CA was blaming Gavin Newsom.

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Sunburn74

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
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emperus said:
This Law professor argues that the recall is unconstitutional. He argues that the first question (Keep/Remove) requires a majority vote but the 2nd question (who replaces him) just requires a planarity and Newsom isn't on the 2nd question. So a candidate could win with a smaller percentage than Newsom gets on the Keep/Remove question. I didn't know this but seems rather unfair to me. He should be on the 2nd question as well. Thoughts?

Aside: Was going to cancel my Nytimes sub but maybe I won't.

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | There Is a Problem With California’s Recall. It’s Unconstitutional. (Published 2021)

Governor Newsom can receive far more votes than any other candidate but still be removed from office.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
Click to expand...
Yeah it's really really stupid the way they have designed their system. Someone could be Governor with like 10 percent of the vote if the field is large enough and sufficiently split. Basically 49.99% of voters could vote to keep him and he gets out and then someone wins with like 5% of the vote or something stupid like that. Democracy....
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,729
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Sunburn74 said:
Yeah it's really really stupid the way they have designed their system. Someone could be Governor with like 10 percent of the vote if the field is large enough and sufficiently split. Basically 49.99% of voters could vote to keep him and he gets out and then someone wins with like 5% of the vote or something stupid like that. Democracy....
Click to expand...

Even if one of the Republicans does make it like that the seems like winning is worse than losing. The Dem supermajorities would neuter the office and you get to be the most hated person in California politics likely galvanizing any Democrat that can breathe into voting in 2022. I mean sure the libs are owned through the terrible quirks of the recall law but substantively it's probably really not good for Rs.
 
UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,700
10,437
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So…Newsome should’ve endorsed an “official” Democrat candidate for Question 2…no???

“Vote remain, but in case I lose that vote—vote for X!”

I think the turnout model has Newsome screwed.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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BoomerD said:
The Republicans used the recall law to get rid of Gray Davis almost 20 years ago and install a meathead actor who couldn't have beat him in a regular election.
This is just more of the same.
Click to expand...

Despite all the issues, Ahnuld's win was legit because he got more votes than Davis.

en.wikipedia.org

2003 California gubernatorial recall election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

As has been said, it's theoretically possible for a contrarian result to occur but I doubt that Newsome is sufficiently despised to lose the vote of confidence in the first place. If the GOP can't rally public sentiment behind a single candidate like they did Schwarzenegger I figure their chances are slim to none.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
UNCjigga said:
So…Newsome should’ve endorsed an “official” Democrat candidate for Question 2…no???

“Vote remain, but in case I lose that vote—vote for X!”

I think the turnout model has Newsome screwed.
Click to expand...

What turnout model do you speak of, Kimosabe? It's universal vote by mail, a first in CA. There's no precedent for a model. The GOP beat Davis because they made it a race against Ahnuld, an enormously popular public figure. He had the right image & the right pitch at the right time. None of that applies this time.

I mean, who really wants Newsome out badly enough to let some GOP whackaloo become Governor? Obviously not a lot of Californians & it's extremely easy to vote it down. You don't even have to show up in person.
 
L

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
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Jhhnn said:
I mean, who really wants Newsome out badly enough to let some GOP whackaloo become Governor?
Click to expand...

You pretty much nailed it.

I dislike Newsom.
I HATE any potential republican crazy who wants to replace him.

Naturally, I will be voting against the recall.

But if a compelling democratic candidate showed up, Newsom would be in big trouble.
 
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rmacd02

Senior member
Nov 24, 2015
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If Newsom is recalled, we in California are screwed. Those replacements are either not qualified, or are just plain looney tunes.
 
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UNCjigga

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
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Jhhnn said:
What turnout model do you speak of, Kimosabe? It's universal vote by mail, a first in CA. There's no precedent for a model.
Click to expand...
I still think you run into a situation where the only people really jazzed about turning in their ballot are the GOP crazies forming at the mouth to see Newsome removed.

You can lead a horse to water, etc.
 
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J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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UNCjigga said:
I still think you run into a situation where the only people really jazzed about turning in their ballot are the GOP crazies forming at the mouth to see Newsome removed.

You can lead a horse to water, etc.
Click to expand...

California Dems are pretty much always jazzed about cock blocking the GOP. Postage paid vote by mail makes it entirely too easy.
 
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