Is suicide selfish?

[eits]

sigh, why am I even bothering to respond...



It's very simple. A person's life is their own. If you feel the urge to get angry at someone who killed themself, then YOU are the selfish one.

uh, no. you're simply reacting to someone's selfishness. feeling hurt, sad, devastated, angry, lost is a normal response when someone does something without mutual respect and love. you're reacting to someone's selfish act.

if you had a friend who was talking about suicide but didn't commit suicide and some gangbanger came around and killed your friend, would you be totally cool with it or would you be mad at the gangbanger who carried out what your friend wanted to do anyway? you'd act the same way anyone else would when they've lost someone they loved.

it's not as clean-cut and dry as "a person's life is their own". yes, a person can do whatever they want with their life. but everyone is interconnected and what someone does to their life affects other peoples' lives. if you off yourself, it will greatly affect those around you. we aren't solo entities without any interpersonal relationships or without anything that ties us all together in a web. we're all connected. that's why if some kid in nepal gets shot dead, we all feel something. when 9/11 happened, we all felt something and were saddened (with the exception of amdhunter). most of us didn't know a single person who died on 9/11, but we still feel angry or sad about it... we still have the images of people jumping out of burning buildings... we still think about those kids who had to grow up without a mom or dad...

now, that doesn't mean that some people shouldn't end it. in our capacity for humanity and interconnectedness, we all feel compassion to the degree where if someone is suffering immensely, we would be ok with them being put out of their misery. however, if it's something that you can deal with eventually, then we'd feel like it was tragic that jimmy hung himself because his wife was cheating on him with his best friend or that mike killed himself because he was depressed and lived as a fat, lazy slob in his parents basement with no ambition in life.

but to call a person who loves another person selfish for not wanting them to kill themselves is ridiculous (unless the person who wants to die is suffering and there's no end in sight and life will be unbearable evermore). have you never loved anyone more than yourself?

 

[MotionMan]

1.) Some people are of the opinion that suicide is selfish because of the pain it causes near and dear ones.

Of course it is selfish. It ends the decedent's pain (which is usually overblown anyway) and inflicts terrible pain on everyone who cared about that person.

That way, isn't giving birth selfish too? By procreating, you are converting inanimate matter into life and giving it the ability to feel pain. People don't choose to be born. They don't choose what they're going to look or be like. It's a bit of a gamble. And that's a risk parents are willing to take. Isn't that selfish?

In some way, having children is selfish, but, in the end creates something that is worth risking everything for. (Do you have children?)

2.) When a person really wants to die, why doesn't society allow him/her to ? Why don't they give them the means to have a painless death? Why is it always necessary to go on living? I mean, there's no rational reason behind it.

I generally agree. However, suicide has a social taboo because of the Bible. Once we overcome that, Soylent Green-type self-deaths will be possible (though hopefully, we won't eat the dead).

MotionMan

 

[HamburgerBoy]

what is this unbearable pain everyone keeps talking about. most people who commit suicide aren't in "unbearable pain"...

define "unbearable pain"... are we talking about teenagers who've been bullied constantly? are we talking about teens who're getting abused physically/emotionally/mentally/sexually/all of the above at home? or are we talking about actual PHYSICAL unbearable pain that will never go away?

Unbearable mental pain can exist too (see: rape victims). Even if they comprise a small minority which you accept as valid suicide cases, you are in no position to judge the mental/emotional state of others. That you feel a need to bring up your own suicide attempts as if they have bearing on those of others proves that you are thinking from a selfish perspective, unable to consider what others may be going through.

 

[alkemyst]

Personally everyone gets a life to do whatever they want with. If you are living to just make other's happy, you are going to have a sad existence.

 

[eits]

Unbearable mental pain can exist too (see: rape victims). Even if they comprise a small minority which you accept as valid suicide cases, you are in no position to judge the mental/emotional state of others. That you feel a need to bring up your own suicide attempts as if they have bearing on those of others proves that you are thinking from a selfish perspective, unable to consider what others may be going through.

everyone's different... i understand that. rape victims, as harsh as it may sound, can get over it and live a normal, healthy, happy life.

emotional pain fades. it will still be there and it'll affect you certain days out of the year, but by and large, you move on and live your daily life whenever you learn to deal with it with whatever way you find most effective.

 

[Baked]

Everyone is selfish.

 

[oslama]

how would you define the Self in selfish?

But is it also selfish for the depressed to wallow in self pity and constantly complain about their condition to others who may get annoyed and wished the depressed would off themselves.

i am going through the same issues and questions.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

I'd rather die. Cleaning up my death would be cheaper than the cost of me living.

 

[Veliko]

It may well be but the people contemplating suicide are possibly suffering from a mental illness of some kind.

 

[alkemyst]

It may well be but the people contemplating suicide are possibly suffering from a mental illness of some kind.

most would.

some need to just get off the ride they started.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

If you are depressed then stop having self pity and stop being self hating. Take that guilt and make it authentic, make it something that leads you to your own most potentiality for being a whole person; not as defined by inauthentic others. Make it something that allows you to share with others the good and light that can be from you. There is a sorrow that leads to self hate and self pity and there is a sorrow that leads you to give up the things you did to lead to this sorrow.

How?

Think of why you are pitying your self. All that hippy non-sense about you not 'deserving' it is only half the story. Not only do you not deserve it, but you also don't deserve anything good either. There's nothing to pity because there IS not 'deserves', its just something you made up so you can bitch. Get over your bitching accept that life sucks sometimes, for everyone, and you don't deserve pity for yours sucking too.

AND

Get over self hate. Remember the time that you did something good? How much good is going out in the universe because of that now... You will do more good in the future, gain making you the epicenter of a wave of good that will go out from you. Why hate that which creates so much good? Everyone screws up, but everyone does good. There's nothing to hate there, as you're just part of a network of ideas and genetics.


Spread love instead of being a nixes of hate and pity; change your behavior and accept that means that you've changed who you are.

 

[WT]

On Thursday, months after contributing a poignant essay to The New York Times about navigating a six-decade marriage upended by his spouse’s Alzheimer’s disease, Mr. Snelling killed his wife and himself, the Snelling family said in a statement released to The Morning Call of Allentown, Pa.. They were found Thursday in their home in Lehigh County in eastern Pennsylvania, the police said. Mr. Snelling shot himself, the coroner said. The ruling on Ms. Snelling’s death was pending. Both were 81.

In the statement, the Snelling family said Mr. Snelling had acted “out of deep devotion and profound love.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/us/love-that-endured-alzheimers-ends-in-2-deaths.html

 

[Dr. Zaus]

On Thursday, months after contributing a poignant essay to The New York Times about navigating a six-decade marriage upended by his spouse’s Alzheimer’s disease, Mr. Snelling killed his wife and himself, the Snelling family said in a statement released to The Morning Call of Allentown, Pa.. They were found Thursday in their home in Lehigh County in eastern Pennsylvania, the police said. Mr. Snelling shot himself, the coroner said. The ruling on Ms. Snelling’s death was pending. Both were 81.

In the statement, the Snelling family said Mr. Snelling had acted “out of deep devotion and profound love.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/us/love-that-endured-alzheimers-ends-in-2-deaths.html

I don't think anyone can judge. It is the in-authentic influence of other people that leads to the guilt that drives suicide. It is only in our own recognition of the ever present state of our own death that we see the importance of life.

 

[OinkBoink]

Not many have really answered Question 2.) When a person really wants to die, why doesn't society allow him/her to ? Why don't they give them the means to have a painless death? Why is it always necessary to go on living? I mean, there's no rational reason behind it.

Let's keep this conversation impersonal. This is not about me or any other particular member.


Many members have offered explanations and 'solutions' as to why one should live, stop pitying themselves and blah blah.

A person wants to die. He does not want to have a better life. He does not want to work hard to make it better. He just wants to die. Why is this choice so hard for people to accept? Almost everyone ends up offering 'solutions' and explanations.

It is very difficult to take your own life. I probably couldn't do it. But there are methods one can come up with, to make the process of dying easy and painless.

Why doesn't society give access to these tools and methods to people who want to off themselves? Why is it always about living? Why is suicide illegal?

 

[alkemyst]

Sadly the basis is taxes.

 

[alkemyst]

On Thursday, months after contributing a poignant essay to The New York Times about navigating a six-decade marriage upended by his spouse’s Alzheimer’s disease, Mr. Snelling killed his wife and himself, the Snelling family said in a statement released to The Morning Call of Allentown, Pa.. They were found Thursday in their home in Lehigh County in eastern Pennsylvania, the police said. Mr. Snelling shot himself, the coroner said. The ruling on Ms. Snelling’s death was pending. Both were 81.

In the statement, the Snelling family said Mr. Snelling had acted “out of deep devotion and profound love.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/us/love-that-endured-alzheimers-ends-in-2-deaths.html

Nick Santino made a similar quest over his dog.

Trash him all you want, but for many their pet is their everything.

 

[AFurryReptile]

Not many have really answered Question 2.) When a person really wants to die, why doesn't society allow him/her to ? Why don't they give them the means to have a painless death? Why is it always necessary to go on living? I mean, there's no rational reason behind it.

Let's keep this conversation impersonal. This is not about me or any other particular member.


Many members have offered explanations and 'solutions' as to why one should live, stop pitying themselves and blah blah.

A person wants to die. He does not want to have a better life. He does not want to work hard to make it better. He just wants to die. Why is this choice so hard for people to accept? Almost everyone ends up offering 'solutions' and explanations.

It is very difficult to take your own life. I probably couldn't do it. But there are methods one can come up with, to make the process of dying easy and painless.

Why doesn't society give access to these tools and methods to people who want to off themselves? Why is it always about living? Why is suicide illegal?

I'm of the thought that people SHOULD be able to do whatever the hell they want to with their body, whether that's getting an abortion, smoking weed, or killing themself. I think as our society grows more liberal and falls away from the religious indoctrination of our grandparents, these kinds of things will become legal, but none of it will be a quick transition.

That said, killing yourself is a MORAL choice, not a legal one. So what if it's technically illegal? What are they going to do, prosecute you once you're already gone?

I, personally, care too much about my peers to put them through the aftermath of a suicide. My brother's best friend from high school (they haven't spoken in years) killed himself, and it fucked up my brother. He still blames himself, and he's wholly convinced his best friend is burning in hell.

It was mentioned earlier, but working out is a GREAT way to feel better about yourself. Nothing is going to be easy, happiness isn't going to just fall onto your plate - you have to work for it. I've been where you are, and imo, life was worth working through.

 

[OinkBoink]

I, personally, care too much about my peers to put them through the aftermath of a suicide. My brother's best friend from high school (they haven't spoken in years) killed himself, and it fucked up my brother. He still blames himself, and he's wholly convinced his best friend is burning in hell.

It is sad that he believes something so ludicrous.

It was mentioned earlier, but working out is a GREAT way to feel better about yourself.

GREAT is an exaggeration (well it might have been your subjective experience that it was GREAT). But yes, it's nice.

Nothing is going to be easy, happiness isn't going to just fall onto your plate - you have to work for it. I've been where you are, and imo, life was worth working through.

Again, this is not about me. No, I'm not going to kill myself just because I asked questions about suicide. (But, I will admit, death in my subjective opinion is preferable to life because you don't have to work for anything or feel anything or prove anything to anyone or even yourself. One might argue that life has its beautiful moments. But I'd prefer life over death if it has ONLY beautiful moments without a hint of pain or with very little pain.) Once again you are trying to convince someone with your own opinion that 'life was 'worth' working through' . 'Worth' is a very subjective thing. Maybe you feel your life was worth it. Many probably don't. Once again, I just asked a couple of questions. No, I have no intention of offing myself.