Is suicide selfish?

[eits]

I preempted this exact reply with the shades of grey comment but maybe that was too vague. You are painting very black and white pictures.

I don't disagree with your examples but they are very simplistic. What do you call suicide of the terminally ill? Euthanasia is commonly performed by someone else. If a terminally ill person commits suicide is that selfish?

Then there's "not terminally ill but in extreme pain" patients with little to no hope of recovery. Also a touchy subject is patients in a vegetative state.

Again, shades of grey...

right, i understand euthanasia is often done by someone else. i'm talking about when a terminally ill person does it to themself. that's not selfish.

as for someone who's in extreme pain, but not terminal, what are we talking about? like, the pain will be a life-long thing? physical pain? emotional pain? what do you mean?
for example, if someone has life-long extreme physical pain, then i don't think it's selfish because there's an element of mercy involved. but if someone is being all emotionally depressed about something, they need to find a way to overcome that somehow, because it can go away. brain chemistry can change and emotional pain can be treated/fixed.

as for someone in a vegetative state, ending their life isn't selfish. i mean, they can't really do it themselves, but they can request that they not be in that situation if it occurs.

ironically enough, my mom was brain dead for over a month... her body was just a thing that couldn't do anything on its own... machines did all the work (except have brain function). when my dad brought me in to say goodbye, that day my mom miraculously regained brain function and her body started working again without assistance. she called the house 3 days later from the hospital. now, do i think my mom's plug should have been pulled? yes. but i'm thankful of the miracle that occurred before the plug was actually pulled.

 

[OinkBoink]

dude, who HASN'T been there? i've tried killing myself twice... the first time was because of a chemical imbalance as a teenager, the second time was a personal, situational depression issue.

getting the right therapist or the right medication isn't the easiest journey, but eventually, you'll get there. it's not as easy as just "shaking thoughts". but it is as easy as having a therapist or psychiatrist that you can be open with and tell them whether or not you think their therapy is working and that either they need to change something or they need to refer you to someone else who can help.

you tough things out until you eventually find the help you need.

a lot of it has to do with yourself, too. get out and exercise and eat right, even if you don't want to. that typically works better than whatever medication there is out there. in many cases, it's just that easy.

a lot of people are depressed because they don't look like ryan gosling or something... they're fat, dress awkwardly, still live with their parents, sit around all day long playing video games or watching tv surrounded by mountain dew bottles and taco bell wrappers and empty doritos bags. then they get depressed and don't want to live because they look at themselves in the mirror and don't want to deal with the hard work of changing their lifestyle and getting in shape.

a lot of people have chronic pain which causes them depression. i see it all the time. it isn't until they realize that they have the option of chiropractic care, acupuncture, surgery, etc. to help rid whatever is causing their pain, then they start feeling better and less helpless.

there are tons of ways to battle thoughts of suicide.

regardless, suicide is selfish because you're killing someone someone else loved just because you didn't want to go through the hard work of getting yourself better by whatever means necessary.

Killing 'someone' someone else loved? You're killing yourself. You didn't ask to be loved. You want to drown out your pain and you know that people move on no matter who dies. It's a part of life.

Let's say I didn't want to work hard and I wanted to avoid working hard to sustain life and I just wanted it to end. So what ?

 

[eits]

Or maybe I'm just trying to be objective.

but that's the thing... the objectivity is that everyone has an innate desire to want to live. if they don't, then there's something wrong.

the subjectivity is whether or not you feel that is something that should be fixed. but, then again, your subjectivity/decision making skills on that issue is compromised because your emotions overtake what you should naturally want or think.

do you subjectively make the decision to be well mentally and normal? or do you decide not to? if you decide not to, then you're going against what you should want.

suicide is selfish. the tricky part of it is, in many cases, would they make the same decision if they had a normal brain chemistry? because if not, then their brain chemistry led them to making the selfish decision.

if we're talking about someone who had NO one, literally no one, who cared about him and he had no purpose in life whatsoever, then no... it's not selfish. it's sad, but not selfish. but that doesn't exist, really. everyone has people that care about them.

 

[eits]

Killing 'someone' someone else loved? You're killing yourself. You didn't ask to be loved. You want to drown out your pain and you know that people move on no matter who dies. It's a part of life.

Let's say I didn't want to work hard and I wanted to avoid working hard to sustain life and I just wanted it to end. So what ?

then don't work hard. be homeless. nbd.

regardless of the fact of you asking people to care about you or not is completely inconsequential. once people care about you and your well-being and you off yourself, you took something away from all those who love you. that's selfish.

is stealing selfish? i mean, people get over things that have been stolen from them, sure, but is it selfish? of course it is. well, then what makes suicide NOT selfish when you're stealing yourself from those who love you forever just because you don't want to get on a treadmill and exercise, see a therapist, or get some happy pills?

 

[eits]

It can be; if you leave your family and friends in a position where they need to recover your debts and other things, then yes, but if I killed myself today, and the day is not yet over, nobody would give a shit and certain people would actually be better off than they are today (nobody would be worse off). So I say no; sure, it's selfish by definition I guess, since you are, in theory, only thinking about yourself when committing suicide, but overall it's somewhat muddled.

KT

that's pure bullshit. you don't know that at all... either that or you're being melodramatic for some reason.

 

[destrekor]

everyone has an innate desire to want to survive and live. if you don't, then you've got a brain chemistry thing going on, whether chronically biological or situational. by people who aren't depressed (or were and no longer are, whether due to therapy or medication), the vast consensus is that life is worth living. so, people need to try and accept the fact that it is and what they're feeling is not "right" and get the help they need so they can feel happy and that life is worth living.

if you have a differing opinion, you're either just trying to be argumentative or are depressed and are trying to justify holding onto your depression because it's comfortable to you.

K.

Wrong.

I'll try to be succinct:
I feel I *might* have a mild case (or two) or a few mental disorders (i.e. mild depression and/or anxiety, OCD, etc), and what is the reason for those existing has been somewhat of a long-term effort to root out and extinguish. With that said, I'll also argue the following opinion, imho of course, has not been drawn out from specific neurotransmitter imbalances, but through personal rationalization and opinions. (yes, I understand personalities can/are shaped by a history of NT imbalances shaping personal rationalizations... I'll argue my case regardless as I do understand how I arrived where I am, and what did or did not influence such conclusions... I don't care to waste any more time on this explanation, so, moving on...)

I'm at times thought about an "exit stage left" simply because I've grown, well... disillusioned with the species. Part of this is my lack of spirituality combined with my personality, sure... but I see, with a realist's eye, no strong chance of our species taking the necessary steps to reach where I think our species should be. And arguing what NEEDs to happen, the attitudes necessary to reach that point, will only result in public humiliation and possibly murder. Cold realities and "civilized life" don't sync well in conversation, but life and cold realities are a logical fact that many put blinders on so they can be ignored. Because of that, I sometimes think the pointlessness of life itself (to propagate the species, ultimately a futile and pointless waste of energy in the universe at large - however, might as well make the best of it now that we're here, of course ), combined with the realistic expectations that our species will not reach a level of civilization necessary to prosper in the long-term, lends toward a belief that continuing this life, at this very moment, is nothing but a show of strength and will. Which, in of itself, is a waste of time. So your strong and able to push through problems, I still feel that results in no reward other than personal happiness and familial peace.
And likewise, I am sure there are at least a handful of people out there who are *not* depressed or suffering from grave illness, yet feel that the concept of life itself is so pointless as to be a waste of their personal effort, they simply feel it would be best to save resources for someone who truly gives a shit about the current day to day world... because, the reason I personally have no hope, is because everyone is concerned with today, leaving only the imaginative to think about tomorrow; whereas the policy makers and rabble-rousers of the world are the ones who, most of all, should be concerned with long-term planning. It takes energy and dedication today, to make the world better for the next few generations... instead, we solve problems after the fact, plan for too short of intervals, and let future generations deal with "the problems of the future." Thus, perpetuating the "ignore the hurdles in the distance, fix the past few hurdles that caused you to fall on your face"

I most certainly feel I am not a suicide risk, mind you... I get depressed, anxious, and annoyed at times, but I'm too stubborn to give up. At this point, it's a game, and I want to leave a lasting [positive] impression on this world.
Maybe that's the only thing that gets me through each and every day, but I wouldn't be ashamed if that is indeed the case. Having pride in family and family name is a strong motivator, and it's a positive motivation imho (some anxiety rears its head thanks to a fear of damaging the family name, of course ).

 

[mugs]

Yes, but if there's anything you should have the right to be selfish with it's your own life. As long as no one is depending on you (e.g. children), I'll never fault a person for suicide.

You know what's selfish? Expecting a person to continue living a life of pain so won't have to grieve their death.

 

[Ronstang]

No. Selfish is the people who think it is selfish and want the person to live in unbearable pain so they can feel good....yet do nothing to actually help the person. One has to be to the brink to understand. For some there is simply no other way. You should either find them real help or let them go.

 

[eits]

what is this unbearable pain everyone keeps talking about. most people who commit suicide aren't in "unbearable pain"...

define "unbearable pain"... are we talking about teenagers who've been bullied constantly? are we talking about teens who're getting abused physically/emotionally/mentally/sexually/all of the above at home? or are we talking about actual PHYSICAL unbearable pain that will never go away?

 

[dwell]

Isn't giving birth selfish too?

 

[KeithTalent]

that's pure bullshit. you don't know that at all... either that or you're being melodramatic for some reason.

It's not. If you think anyone cares, then you are are full of yourself. People may feign caring or a few hours because they feel they need to, but the world, including anyone I know, would move on in a few hours. Just because people feel they need to show emotion for a few moments does not mean they really care. Nobody cares, including me.

KT

 

[eits]

It's not. If you think anyone cares, then you are are full of yourself. People may feign caring or a few hours because they feel they need to, but the world, including anyone I know, would move on in a few hours. Just because people feel they need to show emotion for a few moments does not mean they really care. Nobody cares, including me.

KT

yeah, you're right, no one here gave a shit when acemcmac died. and no family members you have would care. no one would ever miss you. you have no friends in real life.

stfu, man. people would care. i'd care. i'd miss you.

 

[Quakester]

1.) Some people are of the opinion that suicide is selfish because of the pain it causes near and dear ones. That way, isn't giving birth selfish too? By procreating, you are converting inanimate matter into life and giving it the ability to feel pain. People don't choose to be born. They don't choose what they're going to look or be like. It's a bit of a gamble. And that's a risk parents are willing to take. Isn't that selfish?

2.) When a person really wants to die, why doesn't society allow him/her to ? Why don't they give them the means to have a painless death? Why is it always necessary to go on living? I mean, there's no rational reason behind it.

I'm looking for answers to both these questions.

Suicide comes from deep depression so who really cares? It's not like they want to live anyway. I say don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out ya pathetic excuse for a human being. Nobody likes you anyway.

Does that make me a bad person ya panzy loser?

 

[KeithTalent]

yeah, you're right, no one here gave a shit when acemcmac died. and no family members you have would care. no one would ever miss you. you have no friends in real life.

stfu, man. people would care. i'd care. i'd miss you.

Nice try, but that's bullshit and you know it. Nobody would notice, then a month later someone would realize a movie had not been reviewed in a while and wonder what happened, but it would be totally irrelevant. That is totally fine with me. My Work would need to find a new accountant and, well, that's about it.

It's not that I don't find it sad when people off themselves, but selfish? No, not at all.

KT

 

[nickbits]

Depression isn't the only condition that can lead to suicide. Apathy, often the first stage of dimentia, can also be a cause. Apathy is not generally treatable. How can you convince someone life is worth living if they don't care about anything?
As far as the OP, yes it is selfish but it is more selfish for other people to make someone live who doesn't want to (depressed or not).

 

[Miramonti]

However the dictionary describes it.

1
: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others
2
: arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others

excessively, without regard, disregard, etc....each are very undefinable subjective terms, individually and culturally.

Iow, there is no true answer to this question imo.

 

[phats1313]

Depression isn't the only condition that can lead to suicide. Apathy, often the first stage of dimentia, can also be a cause. Apathy is not generally treatable. How can you convince someone life is worth living if they don't care about anything?
As far as the OP, yes it is selfish but it is more selfish for other people to make someone live who doesn't want to (depressed or not).

Good post, I agree all the way.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If you are sufficiently insured, suicide may be the most productive thing you ever do and have far more long reaching positive impact on your family and children than slaving away at a cash register or in a cubicle ever could.

Before anybody gets any ideas, I am NOT worth more dead than alive and I intend to make sure it stays that way...

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Absolutely it's selfish. It's the act of taking ones own life. Pretty sure that is the definition of selfish. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong or people shouldn't be able to if they still want to after getting help.

 

[slayer202]

It's not. If you think anyone cares, then you are are full of yourself. People may feign caring or a few hours because they feel they need to, but the world, including anyone I know, would move on in a few hours. Just because people feel they need to show emotion for a few moments does not mean they really care. Nobody cares, including me.

KT

Truth. Mourning a death just doesn't make sense to me. Especially the "being sad" aspect. Grandma is going to die, why is this so sad? Man up! It's unfortunate when someone dies "early" and even more so if the person was making a positive impact on the world, but people like that are rare. Even then it's not a "sad" event. The dead person doesn't care, and the world just moves on like KT said.

Don't get me started on funerals. And open casket wakes D: Shit, just take my organs and burn the rest. If I ever do anything worth remembering, "mourn" me by revisiting that work. But I'll be dead, move the hell on especially if I'm just some average joe

p.s. eits, you're insane

 

[SillyOReilly]

Absolutely it's selfish. It's the act of taking ones own life. Pretty sure that is the definition of selfish. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong or people shouldn't be able to if they still want to after getting help.

Definition of SELFISH
1
: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others
2
: arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act>
3
: being an actively replicating repetitive sequence of nucleic acid that serves no known function <selfish DNA>; also : being genetic material solely concerned with its own replication <selfish genes>

How about no for 100 Alex, no matter how irrationally you try to disassemble #2.

 

[JoeBleed]

No, it is not selfish. Those that whine about losing loved ones are often the selfish ones. Think about how many people have a terminal illness and their loved ones want them to keep fighting it through the pain even though the dr's tell them it is pointless. Those are the uncaring, selfish ones.

People should be allowed to die if they want. It should be made essay. Hopefully then we could avoid suicide by cop, train, car/truck. In those cases, the person committing suicide is being selfish. They don't care how it will ultimately effect the person that ends up killing them.

It sounds bad, but even parents that want to commit suicide should be allowed to do so. At least then MAYBE they will make arrangements for the kids and remaining family. At the very least they hopefully wouldn't do a wise and beautiful woman move like one of my cousins mothers did. She shot herself on his bed with his shotgun. If these kinds of people want to die, let them. They will likely only make life worse for people around them.

If people were allowed to go to a dr or some established place and be "put to sleep" like is often done with animals, maybe some people would get over the feeling that death is such a bad thing. It would probably only help a small number of people though.

 

[eits]

Absolutely it's selfish. It's the act of taking ones own life. Pretty sure that is the definition of selfish. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong or people shouldn't be able to if they still want to after getting help.

:thumbsup:

i agree with this. i would make an amendment that "that doesn't mean it's always wrong".

there are people in my life who, i know that i wouldn't blame them if they committed suicide. i wouldn't think it was wrong if they did it. but for the majority of people who do commit suicide, i think they are wrong in doing it.

 

[eits]

p.s. eits, you're insane

how so? because i think that it's possible to overcome depression and enjoy life again rather than wallow in your own emotions and off yourself?

if someone really wants to kill themselves, they're gonna kill themselves. that, to me, is a selfish act. they're disregarding how others would feel about it. they're not thinking about anyone else but themselves. they're not thinking about how their future would get better and things will change and time will heal whatever they're depressed about. they're making a permanent solution with lots of ripples for a temporary problem.

does it mean they're always wrong in doing it? no. but that's not the question. the question is whether or not it's selfish.

people seem to be equating selfish with wrongness and that's not a fair association.

 

[slayer202]

sigh, why am I even bothering to respond...

how so? because i think that it's possible to overcome depression and enjoy life again rather than wallow in your own emotions and off yourself?

if someone really wants to kill themselves, they're gonna kill themselves. that, to me, is a selfish act. they're disregarding how others would feel about it. they're not thinking about anyone else but themselves. they're not thinking about how their future would get better and things will change and time will heal whatever they're depressed about. they're making a permanent solution with lots of ripples for a temporary problem.

does it mean they're always wrong in doing it? no. but that's not the question. the question is whether or not it's selfish.

people seem to be equating selfish with wrongness and that's not a fair association.

It's very simple. A person's life is their own. If you feel the urge to get angry at someone who killed themself, then YOU are the selfish one.