Is soundproofing against bass possible?

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GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Yeah, in my house the only frequencies that get through are really low. I should just try to go to bed earlier, it seems to start at 10 or 1030. I think it might partly be the design of my house. The window points right at where it appears to be coming from and I have a big bedroom with nothing on the walls and no carpet.


Hang a big quilt, tarp or heavy drapery over that window and see if it helps. Large windows can definately act as reciever/amplifiers of long distance low frequency sound waves.
 

Leros

Lifer
Jul 11, 2004
21,867
7
81
I live about 300 feet from a stop light. A few times a week, I'll wake up to hear bass thumping. Its amazing how far it can travel.

If they're just driving by, its not too bad. So I know they're stopped at the light when I can hear it for a duration.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81

Ted White

Member
Aug 24, 2010
44
0
0
www.SoundproofingCompany.com
To stop low frequencies, the walls, ceiling and floor need to have a lower resonance point (frequency) than the frequencies coming in. Bass traps will do nothing. That is not what they are designed to do.

Hopefully, some here might find this interesting. Generally the most difficult aspect of high level isolation is controlling the low frequencies (bass). Keep in mind that STC doesn't measure bass, as it does not consider frequencies below 125Hz, and we're obviously dealing with rooms that put out a great deal of sound below that. Generally construction efforts to reduce low frequencies will naturally take care of the lower energy high frequencies.

In short, every compressible cavity (such as air cavities in walls and ceilings) will define a specific resonance point (frequency) in a decoupled system. If we have a double stud wall, or ceiling with clips and channel, then we have a decoupled system. Think of this decoupled system as a spring that oscillates. This system will have a calculable low frequency resonance point, defined by the Mass-Air (spring)-Mass parameters. Let's say this resonance point is 70Hz.

At 70Hz, we don't stop a lot of sound, since resonance allows that frequency to pass fairly easily. At 100Hz, we're doing much better, but as we start looking at frequencies lower than 100Hz, Transmission Loss gets worse and worse until we hit 70Hz rock bottom. So at resonance (70Hz), and just above resonance (70-100Hz) things are not great for our sound isolation. Generally the math is from the resonance point up to around 1.5X the resonance point we don't do as well in sound isolation.

If we could move that resonance point from 70Hz. to 40Hz. we would be much better off:

Scenario #1 has 70Hz resonance point, and weakness from 70Hz through 105Hz. (70 x 1.5= 105).

Scenario #2 has a 40Hz. resonance point, and a weakness from 40Hz through 60Hz. (40 x 1.5= 60).

This is why we spend time looking to incorporate methods to lower that LF resonance point as much as possible. How do we accomplish this? Keeping in mind that a decoupled system is a spring system:

We can add absorption in the form of simple (standard thermal) insulation. This will lower the resonance point (frequency) of the system a bit.

We can add mass to the system. This essentially weighs down our spring system, slowing the oscillation = lowering the resonance. The added mass is more effective than the insulation.

We can add cavity depth to the system. For the same reason that insulation helps, so does more air in the cavity. This also isn't as effective as adding the mass.

So again, if we can progressively march that low frequency point down, we minimize the frequencies that will display weakness.

Hope this helps.
 

brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
2
0
I had this happen a few times. I just go slash their tires every time. Eventually they figure it out.
 

ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
To stop low frequencies, the walls, ceiling and floor need to have a lower resonance point (frequency) than the frequencies coming in. Bass traps will do nothing. That is not what they are designed to do.

Hopefully, some here might find this interesting. Generally the most difficult aspect of high level isolation is controlling the low frequencies (bass). Keep in mind that STC doesn't measure bass, as it does not consider frequencies below 125Hz, and we're obviously dealing with rooms that put out a great deal of sound below that. Generally construction efforts to reduce low frequencies will naturally take care of the lower energy high frequencies.

In short, every compressible cavity (such as air cavities in walls and ceilings) will define a specific resonance point (frequency) in a decoupled system. If we have a double stud wall, or ceiling with clips and channel, then we have a decoupled system. Think of this decoupled system as a spring that oscillates. This system will have a calculable low frequency resonance point, defined by the Mass-Air (spring)-Mass parameters. Let's say this resonance point is 70Hz.

At 70Hz, we don't stop a lot of sound, since resonance allows that frequency to pass fairly easily. At 100Hz, we're doing much better, but as we start looking at frequencies lower than 100Hz, Transmission Loss gets worse and worse until we hit 70Hz rock bottom. So at resonance (70Hz), and just above resonance (70-100Hz) things are not great for our sound isolation. Generally the math is from the resonance point up to around 1.5X the resonance point we don't do as well in sound isolation.

If we could move that resonance point from 70Hz. to 40Hz. we would be much better off:

Scenario #1 has 70Hz resonance point, and weakness from 70Hz through 105Hz. (70 x 1.5= 105).

Scenario #2 has a 40Hz. resonance point, and a weakness from 40Hz through 60Hz. (40 x 1.5= 60).

This is why we spend time looking to incorporate methods to lower that LF resonance point as much as possible. How do we accomplish this? Keeping in mind that a decoupled system is a spring system:

We can add absorption in the form of simple (standard thermal) insulation. This will lower the resonance point (frequency) of the system a bit.

We can add mass to the system. This essentially weighs down our spring system, slowing the oscillation = lowering the resonance. The added mass is more effective than the insulation.

We can add cavity depth to the system. For the same reason that insulation helps, so does more air in the cavity. This also isn't as effective as adding the mass.

So again, if we can progressively march that low frequency point down, we minimize the frequencies that will display weakness.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for writing this info up :thumbsup: and I ask you this: what is the difference between a cavity full of air built into a structure, and tuned bass traps in the corners of a room that are there to reduce bass resonances in that room?
 

Ted White

Member
Aug 24, 2010
44
0
0
www.SoundproofingCompany.com
Corner traps are to reduce reverberating bass frequencies that have insufficient energy to leave the room. If they are higher energy, they will not bounce off a wall, they will leave the room via the wall. Two different events.

Bass waves that have sufficient energy to leave the room will be less able to be trapped. Traps are not a viable means to soundproof.
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,782
2
76
Corner traps are to reduce reverberating bass frequencies that have insufficient energy to leave the room. If they are higher energy, they will not bounce off a wall, they will leave the room via the wall. Two different events.

Bass waves that have sufficient energy to leave the room will be less able to be trapped. Traps are not a viable means to soundproof.

Not to mention that the noise is coming from external sources, and isn't originated in the room.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81
Corner traps are to reduce reverberating bass frequencies that have insufficient energy to leave the room. If they are higher energy, they will not bounce off a wall, they will leave the room via the wall. Two different events.
You're saying that noise has to be loud enough to leave a room? Noise leaves the room at pretty much any SPL.
 

ChaiBabbaChai

Golden Member
Dec 16, 2005
1,090
0
0
You're saying that noise has to be loud enough to leave a room? Noise leaves the room at pretty much any SPL.

No - like was said, if the frequency of the sound is higher than the structure's resonances, then it will be stopped, but obviously if a portion of the structure has gaps or other types of material like glass windows, then the frequencies that are lower than that of the glass will escape through the window glass or air gaps (since sound is air movement). Low bass frequencies that are below the resonance of the walls and whatever the structure is comprised of will travel through, but not the frequencies that made it through the glass window, which is because of it's higher resonance.
*Thanks to Ted for explaining this.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Bass 'absorbers'/traps are to prevent standing waves and other bad mojo.

They are not designed to keep the sound from going beyond them.

The thing one has to realize is once you get into real home theatre/music and get to 20Hz or lower those waves are about 60+ feet and have the energy to penetrate most homes.

This is why the 'boom cars' can be heard for blocks.
 

Ted White

Member
Aug 24, 2010
44
0
0
www.SoundproofingCompany.com
Bass 'absorbers'/traps are to prevent standing waves and other bad mojo.

They are not designed to keep the sound from going beyond them.

The thing one has to realize is once you get into real home theatre/music and get to 20Hz or lower those waves are about 60+ feet and have the energy to penetrate most homes.

This is why the 'boom cars' can be heard for blocks.

:):):)
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81
Agreed.

But you mentioned "reverberating bass frequencies that have insufficient energy to leave the room". I don't agree with your implication that bass needs to have sufficient energy to leave the room. As I said before, walls don't block sound (unless it's reflected), only attenuate its outward transmission.
 
Last edited:

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Bass 'absorbers'/traps are to prevent standing waves and other bad mojo.

They are not designed to keep the sound from going beyond them.

The thing one has to realize is once you get into real home theatre/music and get to 20Hz or lower those waves are about 60+ feet and have the energy to penetrate most homes.

This is why the 'boom cars' can be heard for blocks.

Except boom cars peak around 65Hz. ;)