Is sexual orientation genetic or shaped by social taboos?

[GeekDrew]

Folks, sadly, sexual orientation issues can't be discussed at length on ATOT. Learn that. Remember it.

- Forum Queer

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: HotChic
I read an article by a Christian author - James Dobson - once, which made an interesting point. On the question of whether or not homosexuality is a choice, who in their right mind would choose a path that leads to such incredible social mistreatment? There must be something more than simple choice involved, and few parents raise their children to "be" homosexual. (I put "be" in quotes because I don't really consider sexual orientation to be an identity.) That said, I don't think it's genetic as genetic would be techincally defined. I don't think it's a trait passed on through genetic makeup. I do think that those sexual desires are sometimes an inherent part of a person's makeup, without being genetic, just as personality is part of a person's makeup without being genetic. I don't think one can classify the cause of all homosexuals' homosexual desires either.

This is a post all without regard to the legitimacy of homosexual behavior, regarding only the cause of the sexual desire. My personal stance on the behavior is that it is immoral to act upon (that sounds very harsh in today's society, I am aware of that.) I don't, however, think there's a hierarchical moral system, so homosexuality is no more or less immoral than simple adultery, or lying for that matter. Just have to include that as the completion of my thoughts on the subject.

Just wanna say: The Dr's "who in their right mind would choose a path that leads to such incredible social mistreatment?" comment is a weak attempt of avoiding stating his opinion in order not to offend Christians or non-Christians. It's a ridiculous statement and if Homosexuality is ever proven to be genetic, will be like wondering why a Jew would be a Jew in Nazi Germany.

 

[Pliablemoose]

{Pokes topic with 11 foot pole}

Genetic predisposition + environmental factors = ghey

Same factors lead to the modding of cell phones

 

[compudog]

We are products of our environment. 'nuff said.

 

[BooneRebel]

Fortunately for the hetero majority, it doesn't matter if sexual orientation is genetic or shaped by social taboos. Homosexuals don't usually have homosexual parents because procreation doesn't work that way! Survival of the fittest, in this case referring to those who can create offspring, means that the natural heterosexual orientation will last indefinitely, while the strongest "homosexual society" is doomed to a single generation. There may be some minor overlap as their unnatural inclinations may impact hetero offspring in the next generation, but in the long run they are doomed to failure in our or any other species.

 

[Vette73]

genetic - I like woman. I DON'T choose to like them sexually, I just look at a good looking woman and I like that. I look at a guy and I get nothing. Might be a cool guy but no bells or whistles go off. With a woman, I am just drawn to them, I did not choose that, thats just who I am.

And my older brother is gay and knew he was different when he started pubirity(sp) He would look at woman but nothing happened for him, even though everybody said he should have. So knowing what he went through, I think it is hard for someone to admit that are gay, as everybody is saying woman + man is what we want, don't you. And don't get me started on all the biggots and preacher people.

And the real funny thing is I come from a family that is FULL of rasist and biggots. As soon as my brother came out, the biggot commets went away REAL fast. Nothing like having a person you pick on be your son, my parents learned that the hard way, FAST.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
genetic - I like woman. I DON'T choose to like them sexually, I just look at a good looking woman and I like that. I look at a guy and I get nothing. Might be a cool guy but no bells or whistles go off. With a woman, I am just drawn to them, I did not choose that, thats just who I am.

And my older brother is gay and knew he was different when he started pubirity(sp) He would look at woman but nothing happened for him, even though everybody said he should have. So knowing what he went through, I think it is hard for someone to admit that are gay, as everybody is saying woman + man is what we want, don't you. And don't get me started on all the biggots and preacher people.

And the real funny thing is I come from a family that is FULL of rasist and biggots. As soon as my brother came out, the biggot commets went away REAL fast. Nothing like having a person you pick on be your son, my parents learned that the hard way, FAST.

Mostly genetic but the desire to participate in homosexual behavior can also be induced by environmental circumstances.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
genetic - I like woman. I DON'T choose to like them sexually, I just look at a good looking woman and I like that. I look at a guy and I get nothing. Might be a cool guy but no bells or whistles go off. With a woman, I am just drawn to them, I did not choose that, thats just who I am.

And my older brother is gay and knew he was different when he started pubirity(sp) He would look at woman but nothing happened for him, even though everybody said he should have. So knowing what he went through, I think it is hard for someone to admit that are gay, as everybody is saying woman + man is what we want, don't you. And don't get me started on all the biggots and preacher people.

And the real funny thing is I come from a family that is FULL of rasist and biggots. As soon as my brother came out, the biggot commets went away REAL fast. Nothing like having a person you pick on be your son, my parents learned that the hard way, FAST.

Mostly genetic but the desire to participate in homosexual behavior can also be induced by environmental circumstances.

If participating in heterosexual behavior would mean you'd get tortured to death I'd be careful with showing my heterosexuality too. If it is accepted people will be more open about it, as simple as that.

Do you choose to be right handed or left handed? Percentage of left handed people is about equal to the percentage of homosexual people. Does that mean it's your environment which causes you to be lefthanded?

 

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1Do you choose to be right handed or left handed? Percentage of left handed people is about equal to the percentage of homosexual people. Does that mean it's your environment which causes you to be lefthanded?

Fortunately, I can be left-handed and still have children. We're not talking about being left-handed, blue-eyed, brown-haired, or any other genetic varieties that makeup our society as a whole. If you want to consider it a genetic trait, you'll have to put it in the category with sterility, mental and physical disorders, and other disabilities which prevent having children. A little more morbid than being left-handed.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1Do you choose to be right handed or left handed? Percentage of left handed people is about equal to the percentage of homosexual people. Does that mean it's your environment which causes you to be lefthanded?

Fortunately, I can be left-handed and still have children. We're not talking about being left-handed, blue-eyed, brown-haired, or any other genetic varieties that makeup our society as a whole. If you want to consider it a genetic trait, you'll have to put it in the category with sterility, mental and physical disorders, and other disabilities which prevent having children. A little more morbid than being left-handed.

It can be a matter of a combination of genes, a recessive gene, or indeed a defect in a gene. Or maybe it's a gene meant to slow down reproduction or something. We won't know until it's found, but it sure as hell isn't a matter of 'choosing' to like either side. I always liked girls/women, and never liked boys/men in that way, and I strongly doubt that's gonna change.

Edit: When you look at the subject in a different way, you can say the social aspect does matter, but it does not change what the person likes. A strongly religious homosexual may marry someone of the other sex, just because he/she thinks it's sinful to like someone of the same sex. Or he/she may choose to enter a position where they do not have to marry, for example by becoming a nun or priest.

 

[Amused]

I my opinion, it's neither in most cases.

I believe most cases of homosexuality are caused by hormone imbalances occurring during fetal development.

There IS one more option than "genetic vs nurture" here.

It cannot be genetic, because homosexuality does not follow family lines, It occurs randomly, and crosses both cultural and racial lines. It also seems to occur at roughly the same rate, no matter how a society reacts to it. For these reasons, it also cannot be a learned trait.

Honestly, how many folks here could change their orientation?

 

[BooneRebel]

Originally posted by: Amused
I my opinion, it's neither in most cases.

I believe most cases of homosexuality are caused by hormone imbalances occurring during fetal development.

There IS one more option than "genetic vs nurture" here.

It cannot be genetic, because homosexuality does not follow family lines, It occurs randomly, and crosses both cultural and racial lines. It also seems to occur at roughly the same rate, no matter how a society reacts to it. For these reasons, it also cannot be a learned trait.

Honestly, how many folks here could change their orientation?

Agreed up to a point. I think it can be a learned trait, as there have been societies (as mentioned in the African tribe, above) that promote homosexuality. Ancient Rome had a higher rate of homosexuality as it was openly promoted then as well. It doesn't necessarily have to be genetic to be passed down from one generation to the next. If my father was a carpenter and I am a carpenter as well, do I carry the carpenter gene?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel

Originally posted by: Amused
I my opinion, it's neither in most cases.

I believe most cases of homosexuality are caused by hormone imbalances occurring during fetal development.

There IS one more option than "genetic vs nurture" here.

It cannot be genetic, because homosexuality does not follow family lines, It occurs randomly, and crosses both cultural and racial lines. It also seems to occur at roughly the same rate, no matter how a society reacts to it. For these reasons, it also cannot be a learned trait.

Honestly, how many folks here could change their orientation?

Agreed up to a point. I think it can be a learned trait, as there have been societies (as mentioned in the African tribe, above) that promote homosexuality. Ancient Rome had a higher rate of homosexuality as it was openly promoted then as well. It doesn't necessarily have to be genetic to be passed down from one generation to the next. If my father was a carpenter and I am a carpenter as well, do I carry the carpenter gene?

And if the Inquisition would have burned left handed people at the stake, don't you think the left handed people in that time would have tried to hide it?
There would not be a need for 'coming out' if it was socially accepted.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel

Originally posted by: Amused
I my opinion, it's neither in most cases.

I believe most cases of homosexuality are caused by hormone imbalances occurring during fetal development.

There IS one more option than "genetic vs nurture" here.

It cannot be genetic, because homosexuality does not follow family lines, It occurs randomly, and crosses both cultural and racial lines. It also seems to occur at roughly the same rate, no matter how a society reacts to it. For these reasons, it also cannot be a learned trait.

Honestly, how many folks here could change their orientation?

Agreed up to a point. I think it can be a learned trait, as there have been societies (as mentioned in the African tribe, above) that promote homosexuality. Ancient Rome had a higher rate of homosexuality as it was openly promoted then as well. It doesn't necessarily have to be genetic to be passed down from one generation to the next. If my father was a carpenter and I am a carpenter as well, do I carry the carpenter gene?

While homosexual practices can be forced by society, the PREFERENCE for one sex or another cannot. Men will corn hole each other all the live long day in prison, but throw a woman in their cell and that practice will all but disappear for 90+% of them. Justbecause they're having homosexual sex does not mean that is what they prefer.

The Romans played hanky panky with boys as a social practice, but they prefered women and still married. Sexual practices can change with the styles, but, IMHO, basic preferences cannot.

 

[zephyrprime]

Being left handed was considered bad as recently as 100 years ago in the United States (and perhaps elsewhere too). Parents would try to get their kids to hide the fact that they were left handed and try to be right handed instead.

 

[Vortex22]

Mostly genetic but the desire to participate in homosexual behavior can also be induced by environmental circumstances.

We have a winner!

 

[BeauJangles]

mostly genetic some environmental.

 

[Woodchuck2000]

Is it just me or does this question pop up about once a fortnight? People cite overused arguments, call each other gay, and then conclude that it's part environment, part genetic and we can't prove it either way.

Please just let this one die...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Woodchuck2000
Is it just me or does this question pop up about once a fortnight? People cite overused arguments, call each other gay, and then conclude that it's part environment, part genetic and we can't prove it either way.

Please just let this one die...

Hehehe, so true.

 

[quirky]

definattely agree with amused