Is Palistine a Country?

[Czar]

Just thought I'd do this for fun

Jews have too much power in the U.S. today.*
- dont think so and dont care
Jews have too much control and influence on Wall Street.
- not a clue and it shouldnt matter
Jews have too much power in the business world.
- nopes
Jews are more willing to use shady practices to get what they want
- anyone can be shady and I dont see why jews should be any different from everyone else
Jews are [not] as honest as other businessmen
- nope, if anything more honest, dont ask why, just a feeling I have right now and only a jewish businessman could change that
Jewish businessmen are so shrewd that other people do not have a fair chance at competition
- ha ha, no
Jewish employers go out of their way to hire other Jews.*
- very true, but I think most people are guilty of that, whites hiring white, blacks hiring blacks and so on
Jews have a lot of irritating faults..
- only those blind belivers but there are blind belivers of any faith, or anything, so I cant say that this applies more to jews than others
Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust.*
- sometimes, just like anyone else who wants to use history for their own agenda
Jews don't care what happens to anyone but their own kind.
- generaly, no, but like with anything else there are exceptions
Jews always like to be at the head of things.
- doesnt everyone want that, survival of the fittest, its just our nature
Jews have too much influence over the American news media.*
- no, but lately the US media has been to influenced by personal opinion of those who work there that credibility has lost (has nothing to do with them being jewish or not, just talking about the general media... which isnt realy the topic here)
Jews are more loyal to Israel than to America.
- In many cases yes
Jews stick together more than other Americans.
- before sept 11. yes, after sept 11. probably not. Reason for that, any minority sticks together, its normal.

 

[Passner]

I am surprised, Czar, you did quite well. You have to remember though that by saying Jews, it is implying all Jews, as opposed to individuals of the Jewish faith, which is why any single affirmative answer could be characterized as racist.

 

[Jejunum]

pasnner attacks on races and genders are not permitted

nor are attacks against members; ur the one thats gonna get banned

 

[Czar]

<< pasnner attacks on races and genders are not permitted

nor are attacks against members; ur the one thats gonna get banned >>


what?

 

[Passner]

I did not attack anyone, I was just using the defenition set by the ADL, and you just sound bitter because I dissed you for such blatant hatred for Israel.

 

[HombrePequeno]

I seriously doubt that 35% of the people are in the middle.

 

[Jejunum]

halogen pay no attention to passner he has a chip on his shoulder and is looking for a fight

anyways its a fact that jews have more influence than any other group in this country

just look at the senate and the house ; there is a disproportionate number of jewish people in both than the population

passner i didnt say that was bad; i just pointed it out since ur all about bs facts

and ur statistics come from an awful skewed source...

 

[Passner]

the ADL is skewed? the only major national organization committed to fighting bigotry in all of its forms? The organization the just issued an incredibly harsh criticism
of the Jewish Defense League, calling it a terrorist group. The group that was one of the biggest critics of Eminem, and one of the biggest proponents of civil rights? To quote Edna Krabbaple "Ha."

 

[Jejunum]

blah stuipd me
i didnt mean adl was skewed; i just meant statistics are stuipd and skewed because of the lack of large polling (uhh someone explain what i mean cauze i cant seem to be articulate right now) (look i didnt edit my old comment )

oh and i hate hate hate eminem; hess sooo whiny; and i saw a preview for his movie yesterday i thought i was gonna go insane :0 wtf is with stuipd "rappers" getting to make movies

 

[Czar]

I must stand with Jejunum on one thing, adl is extremely biased. They have some points, a valid reason for their work, but it comes out biased and on the same ground of those they are trying to fight.


seee.. spelling.. wrote adsl instead of adl

 

[Passner]

I disagree, they are hardly biased, in fact the reveled in the fact that anti-Semetism was dropping. They are not trying to make any false claims
here, besides I believe close to 10,000 were polled from a cross-section of groups, that is big enough to transcend any "small sample size" claims.

 

[Czar]

<< I disagree, they are hardly biased, in fact the reveled in the fact that anti-Semetism was dropping. They are not trying to make any false claims here, besides I believe close to 10,000 were polled from a cross-section of groups, that is big enough to transcend any "small sample size" claims. >>


true, as I said they have a valid reason for this and have valid points, just how they present their case makes them look just as bad as people who are anti-semite.

 

[Passner]

explain please.

 

[Halogen]

that's a part of a jewish propoganda thing, if you say anything that is against jews you are suddenly an anti semite

although the people who make the claims about jews running media may not actually hate jews at all, the media will deem them as racists and anti semites even though they are not

i myself don't hate jews, i just find it very annoying how they won't shut up about the holocaust...

 

[Pers]

Passner, since when did anti-semitism, mean ONLY anti-jewish?

You do realize Arabs (yes....palestinians) are semitic?

and...dude....you're freaking annoying....you have made clear to ALL able readers on the friggin forum that you are pro-Israel...

thus, any stat, opinion, fact you give....kind of is meaningless.....someone less bias care to contribute?

 

[Passner]

If 6 million of your people died, and the world did nothing, don't you think you would be upset. you mention t hey were a minority of those killed, however
what happened to Jews was worse, because it was an assault on a religion, saying that those who subscribed to a set of beliefs, even if they themselves did not, were worthless, evil and needed to be eradicated.
You forget that some truly incredible Jews were victims of the Holocaust, such as Albert Flatow, and Arthur Eichengruen. There are many many famous Jews who died, so yeah we are gonna be a bit upset.

 

[Jejunum]

<< that's a part of a jewish propoganda thing, if you say anything that is against jews you are suddenly an anti semite >>



yes that phenomenon definately exists
i dont think that they should "shut up about the holocaust though" just not use it as an excuse to make everyone feel bad...

there have been many other tragedies in this century that dont get any attention or moneY (me thinks to repararition just paid to survivors of concentration camps and etc).

back to original point (i am so incoherent) if u hate affirmative action then ur just expression your political views; if you hate the constant barage of holocaust information you are an anti-semite

 

[Passner]

Independent third party numbers cannot show bias. And are you going to say Czar's opinions are meaningless, or Jej whatever, or one of the many others who dwells on the Palestinian side of things? That is what we call a double
standard you got in place there bub, and unless you care to clarify, your opinions are meaningless.

 

[glenn1]

<< I am surprised, Czar, you did quite well. You have to remember though that by saying Jews, it is implying all Jews, as opposed to individuals of the Jewish faith, which is why any single affirmative answer could be characterized as racist. >>



The test is somewhat faulty, because of the way the questions are constructed. The test asks yes/no questions about a collective, i.e. Jews. Not impressions on Jews in general, or the majority of Jews, or even a significant portion of Jews. Therefore, any "yes" answer automatically presumes one is making a blanket judgement against all Jews universally, even if that's not the case.

I could do the same thing if i asked a questionairre about blacks... let me give an example:

1. blacks like rap music
2. blacks still talk too much about what happened to them during slavery times
3. blacks have too much influence over American culture (music, sports, entertainment, etc.)
4. black athletes tend to dominate many professional sports
5. blacks stick together more than other Americans
etc.

See how the test is written, probably actually causes it to show a higher percentage of anti-semitism than is actually the case? I'm not trying to say that anti-semitism isn't real, but when this test seems to be a poor mechanism of determining the true amount of such feeling out there.

 

[Pers]

Passner....i bet the people at adl aren't as.......blind as you are.

Don't you think they added the hated arabs to that number??? I'm SURE arabs aren't really like in NY anyway.

 

[Passner]

the diff between AA and the holocaust "barrage" is that Affirmitave Action is a current political issue, and its rammifications extend to everyone.
The "barrage" as you call it is a mere matter of preferance in what gets shown on TV, and it relates to a single group, with no exterior rammifications, dealing with an event that happened 68-55 years ago.

 

[Czar]

ok, note that this is just an observation on how they present their findings, not about their findings

Front page
UN General Assembly Approves One-Sided Anti-Israel Resolution
This headline screams bias, a neautral headline could be in the lines of "UN General Assembly Approves of one-sided Resolution", but still that 'one-sided' is debateable, saying anti-israel is purely an opinion and provokes distrust in the UN by people who read this and support israel, before they are brought any information about that matter so they could make up their own mind.

Arab Extremists Borrowing Propaganda from U.S. Hatemongers
Anti-Semitism Spreads in the Arab World

I have no issues regarding what they are presenting there, all true as far as I know. The issue I have is how they present it, how they use words, not sure how exactly to explain this.

ok, when they are presenting the facts they put in their own personal opinion and brand people, notice that they use anti-something alot there and also notice "hatemongers". They also call groups and people "extremists" while on their about page they have a picture of John Ashcroft and Ariel Sharon which both are considered extremists for their own agenda. What is generaly being done on that page is not letting people know the facts and trust the people to come to their own conclusion but rather bring the facts with a conclusion they want the people to end up with in their heads. To sum it up, this page has a slight propaganda feel over it.

hope my point got through

 

[glenn1]

<< Independent third party numbers cannot show bias. >>




LOL... sir, surely you jest. "Independent third party numbers" can easily show bias. The validity of any given opinion test is subjective at best, because we're dealing with human beings, who prove time and time again that what they say for public consumption does not necessarily equate to what they actually believe. Also, the questions you ask and the way you ask them has quite a bit to do with the results you get as well. In every practical sense, it's impossible to get a truly accurate gauge on any question such as "how much anti-semitism is there out there" due to the nature of the question.

Again, i'm not saying the ASL numbers are bogus, or should be totally disregarded, but they should be taken with a rather large helping of salt. After all, who's going to come out and be completely honest and say, "yeah, i'm a bigot" ?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

i myself don't hate jews, i just find it very annoying how they won't shut up about the holocaust...

whoa, we derive value from history by remembering . . . granted many of our conflicts are due to long as well as short memories. But before this becomes Are Jews really a race and name that anti-semite . . . what about the original question?

I think it's a mistake to use the Western concept of nation to decide Palestine's status. Regardless of its history, today's Palestine has a people of significantly similar background, who reside in a relatively circumscribed area, with a leader of popular standing (they would not replace him with someone in particular if given the choice), the population agrees on the seat of power, and they collectively believe in what their future goals are. The Zulus, Iroquois, (name your tribe) all qualify as "nations" as long as your definition is sufficiently broad to encompass the cultural differences.

As for the holocaust, no one should forget Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin but American colonialism, Manifest Destiny, Western slave trade are equally despicable blights.

 

[wolf550e]

this is ridiculus. palestine never was a country. people who call themselves palestinians and live in Israel want to form a country and call it palestine, but it is not a country yet. they have autonomy now, and will get their wish if they coudl just behave themselves. most ppl in IL believe they do have the right to be independent, but there are matters of security which dont allow us to let them.