Is now a good time to buy a house?! (err... Condo)

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: trmiv
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you are buying a $600K condo now in San Jose, be prepared to lose up to $200K in equity. We are just in the beginning of a multiyear bear market in real estate.
You know the area, think about it. People buying condos here are like you and I, younger engineers making around $100K/year. So if they have to take out ARMs just to buy a condo, who is going to support the prices in the long term, especially when higher interest rates kick in on their mortgages.
$100k/yr = $8,333/mo.

$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed = $2,650/mo. P&I + est. $500/mo. for T&I = $3,150/mo. PITI = 38% DTI

I agree the price is outrageous, but your specific argument is lacking.

I would wager that 99% (yes I made that up on the spot, 72% of all statistics are made up. ;) :) ) of the young people in this area making decent money that are buying 600K condos are putting no where near 20% down, if they are putting anything down at all.

I won't argue that point, note that I used a 30 fixed rate. An 80/20 interest only ARM payment wouldn't be much more, assuming good terms (say around $3,500 mo. 1st/2nd PITI, or 42% DTI). And sure, those ARM's will eventually adjust, but *OMG shocker* rates are still low, so it's not like they're going to adjust to the moon (once again, assuming good terms, not the isolated illiterate who signs an ARM with a monster margin).

3K/month is a lot of money for a condo. That's like twice the rent on a nice 2 br 2 bath apartment.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,480
8,340
126
I realize the tax deductions, but it's a full year (if not more) before those are realized. And even then they aren't as much as they are made out to be.

Lenders give you just enough rope to hang yourself. It's what you could make payments on, not what you really can "afford". There's a difference.

But you know that.

When you have a $3000 mortgage and a take home pay of $5500'ish a month, that doesn't leave *a lot* of money left laying around each month for car payments, retirement, insurance on said car, food, utilities, ect.

And that's assuming you coughed up the 120k down payment which most likely isn't the case for a first time buyer.

The income doesn't match the price.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,974
126
Originally posted by: Vic
$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed = $2,650/mo. P&I + est. $500/mo. for T&I = $3,150/mo. PITI = 38% DTI
Are CA 30-year mortgages even close to 5.25% for the typical buyer? Just a question, since you are in the business.

And you are avoiding the more important question. Do you think CA prices will drop, stay steady, or rise?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: trmiv
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you are buying a $600K condo now in San Jose, be prepared to lose up to $200K in equity. We are just in the beginning of a multiyear bear market in real estate.
You know the area, think about it. People buying condos here are like you and I, younger engineers making around $100K/year. So if they have to take out ARMs just to buy a condo, who is going to support the prices in the long term, especially when higher interest rates kick in on their mortgages.
$100k/yr = $8,333/mo.

$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed = $2,650/mo. P&I + est. $500/mo. for T&I = $3,150/mo. PITI = 38% DTI

I agree the price is outrageous, but your specific argument is lacking.

I would wager that 99% (yes I made that up on the spot, 72% of all statistics are made up. ;) :) ) of the young people in this area making decent money that are buying 600K condos are putting no where near 20% down, if they are putting anything down at all.

I won't argue that point, note that I used a 30 fixed rate. An 80/20 interest only ARM payment wouldn't be much more, assuming good terms (say around $3,500 mo. 1st/2nd PITI, or 42% DTI). And sure, those ARM's will eventually adjust, but *OMG shocker* rates are still low, so it's not like they're going to adjust to the moon (once again, assuming good terms, not the isolated illiterate who signs an ARM with a monster margin).

3K/month is a lot of money for a condo. That's like twice the rent on a nice 2 br 2 bath apartment.

I wasn't arguing that. I personally would never pay that much for a condo (but then again, I like being able to blast my music and having a yard). The issue (which you started) is whether or not it's affordable. The answer is that it is. Which is why people are buying them.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Pho King
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you are buying a $600K condo now in San Jose, be prepared to lose up to $200K in equity. We are just in the beginning of a multiyear bear market in real estate.
You know the area, think about it. People buying condos here are like you and I, younger engineers making around $100K/year. So if they have to take out ARMs just to buy a condo, who is going to support the prices in the long term, especially when higher interest rates kick in on their mortgages.

Senseamp, everything you're saying makes sense to me. I have the exact same concerns and its the reason I haven't bought yet - but then again the whole bayarea housing market is irrational to me. I just seems like it's a damn that's about to burst ....

Don't listen to him...nothing's going to burst. There's a lot of dumb money out there waiting for this supposed pop, so any sign of a price drop will be supplanted by the dumb money. If anything there's some froth, and you should be looking for sellers that are in a bind and HAVE to sell. Remember, most people that qualify for loans can afford to pay for the mortgage, and even if rates go up, this can be offset by less spending and/or higher income.

I am talking specifically about Metro California areas (LA and SJ) where land is scarce and new homes are not being built. Of course Sacramento on the other hand...
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Vic
$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed = $2,650/mo. P&I + est. $500/mo. for T&I = $3,150/mo. PITI = 38% DTI
Are CA 30-year mortgages even close to 5.25% for the typical buyer? Just a question, since you are in the business.

And you are avoiding the more important question. Do you think CA prices will drop, stay steady, or rise?

They were at the time that people consider to be the bubble. Right now, they're about 5.875%.

I've never avoided that question in any of these threads. I think CA prices will drop in some overheated markets (like Sacramento to Stockton, etc.) but remain flat elsewhere. Most other areas of the country are going to be similar. The few really overheated ones will drop, most will remain flat, while the undervalued markets (those that didn't pop double-digit annual appreciation in the past few years) will continue to rise steadily. Location, location, location.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: vi_edit
I realize the tax deductions, but it's a full year (if not more) before those are realized. And even then they aren't as much as they are made out to be.

Lenders give you just enough rope to hang yourself. It's what you could make payments on, not what you really can "afford". There's a difference.

But you know that.

When you have a $3000 mortgage and a take home pay of $5500'ish a month, that doesn't leave *a lot* of money left laying around each month for car payments, retirement, insurance on said car, food, utilities, ect.

And that's assuming you coughed up the 120k down payment which most likely isn't the case for a first time buyer.

The income doesn't match the price.

What good does it do a lender to have a person hang themselves? They want you to make that payment. Especially on a high LTV purchase transaction. That's their business model. So-called predatory transactions, where the lender wants the borrower to default (aka "loan-to-own"), are all low LTV for obvious reasons (that the lender would then pick it up for pennies on the dollar). Lenders have no desire to pick up properties for full price.
And hey, what do they know? They only do millions and millions of these, for trillions of dollars each year, and average a less than 1% default rate.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,974
126
Originally posted by: Vic
They were at the time that people consider to be the bubble. Right now, they're about 5.875%.

I've never avoided that question in any of these threads. I think CA prices will drop in some overheated markets (like Sacramento to Stockton, etc.) but remain flat elsewhere. Most other areas of the country are going to be similar. The few really overheated ones will drop, most will remain flat, while the undervalued markets (those that didn't pop double-digit annual appreciation in the past few years) will continue to rise steadily. Location, location, location.
Your posts were confusing me (don't worry, it is easy to confuse me). Specifically, what were you responding to here?
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you are buying a $600K condo now in San Jose, be prepared to lose up to $200K in equity. We are just in the beginning of a multiyear bear market in real estate.
You know the area, think about it. People buying condos here are like you and I, younger engineers making around $100K/year. So if they have to take out ARMs just to buy a condo, who is going to support the prices in the long term, especially when higher interest rates kick in on their mortgages.
$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed...

I agree the price is outrageous, but your specific argument is lacking.
He was mentioning buying a home now, and you gave an argument with interest rates from a few years ago. What specifically is lacking in his idea that a home now may not be a good idea in some areas of CA?
 

Pho King

Member
Sep 9, 2004
199
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Vic
$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed = $2,650/mo. P&I + est. $500/mo. for T&I = $3,150/mo. PITI = 38% DTI
Are CA 30-year mortgages even close to 5.25% for the typical buyer? Just a question, since you are in the business.

And you are avoiding the more important question. Do you think CA prices will drop, stay steady, or rise?

They were at the time that people consider to be the bubble. Right now, they're about 5.875%.

I've never avoided that question in any of these threads. I think CA prices will drop in some overheated markets (like Sacramento to Stockton, etc.) but remain flat elsewhere. Most other areas of the country are going to be similar. The few really overheated ones will drop, most will remain flat, while the undervalued markets (those that didn't pop double-digit annual appreciation in the past few years) will continue to rise steadily. Location, location, location.

Vic, I would be interested in hearing about what you thought about the location of the condo I'm looking at - next to the San Jose Arena. Are you familiar with the area?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Vic
They were at the time that people consider to be the bubble. Right now, they're about 5.875%.

I've never avoided that question in any of these threads. I think CA prices will drop in some overheated markets (like Sacramento to Stockton, etc.) but remain flat elsewhere. Most other areas of the country are going to be similar. The few really overheated ones will drop, most will remain flat, while the undervalued markets (those that didn't pop double-digit annual appreciation in the past few years) will continue to rise steadily. Location, location, location.
Your posts were confusing me (don't worry, it is easy to confuse me). Specifically, what were you responding to here?
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you are buying a $600K condo now in San Jose, be prepared to lose up to $200K in equity. We are just in the beginning of a multiyear bear market in real estate.
You know the area, think about it. People buying condos here are like you and I, younger engineers making around $100K/year. So if they have to take out ARMs just to buy a condo, who is going to support the prices in the long term, especially when higher interest rates kick in on their mortgages.
$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed...

I agree the price is outrageous, but your specific argument is lacking.
He was mentioning buying a home now, and you gave an argument with interest rates from a few years ago. What specifically is lacking in his idea that a home now may not be a good idea in some areas of CA?

Perhaps I misunderstood, but saying that anyone who bought a condo right now would lose equity almost right away based on ARM mortgages adjusting would be implying mortgages that were originated in the past (as most ARMs are fixed for the first 3 to 5 years).

Also, that 5.25% rate was just a bit over a year ago (not a few years ago, although it was available at frequent intervals from 2003-2005). The 5.875% that is available right now on a fixed would increase the payment by less than $200/mo. (all of which would be tax deductible).
In addition, rates on interest-only and option ARMs are typically less than those of fixed.

What is lacking? Simple. There is this idea that home values are going to fall because they are unaffordable. In those few areas where that is actually true, then that will take place. However, that idea is not true in most places (ironically, it is not true in the example he gave, which was my point), and the only reason that values might fall in those areas is because of sagging confidence, and not because they have to due to lack of affordability. What is true is that values could not continue to go up as they were in those hot markets. So if you're planning to buy into a "hot market," don't. If you're planning to buy because you want to own your own home, then do.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
Originally posted by: Pho King
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Vic
$600k sales price - 20% down = $480k mortgage @ 5.25% 30 year fixed = $2,650/mo. P&I + est. $500/mo. for T&I = $3,150/mo. PITI = 38% DTI
Are CA 30-year mortgages even close to 5.25% for the typical buyer? Just a question, since you are in the business.

And you are avoiding the more important question. Do you think CA prices will drop, stay steady, or rise?

They were at the time that people consider to be the bubble. Right now, they're about 5.875%.

I've never avoided that question in any of these threads. I think CA prices will drop in some overheated markets (like Sacramento to Stockton, etc.) but remain flat elsewhere. Most other areas of the country are going to be similar. The few really overheated ones will drop, most will remain flat, while the undervalued markets (those that didn't pop double-digit annual appreciation in the past few years) will continue to rise steadily. Location, location, location.

Vic, I would be interested in hearing about what you thought about the location of the condo I'm looking at - next to the San Jose Arena. Are you familiar with the area?

I wouldn't live in that area. I'd live around The Alameda, but the area right next to the Arena has some crappy areas.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Pho King
Originally posted by: senseamp
If you are buying a $600K condo now in San Jose, be prepared to lose up to $200K in equity. We are just in the beginning of a multiyear bear market in real estate.
You know the area, think about it. People buying condos here are like you and I, younger engineers making around $100K/year. So if they have to take out ARMs just to buy a condo, who is going to support the prices in the long term, especially when higher interest rates kick in on their mortgages.

Senseamp, everything you're saying makes sense to me. I have the exact same concerns and its the reason I haven't bought yet - but then again the whole bayarea housing market is irrational to me. I just seems like it's a damn that's about to burst ....

Don't listen to him...nothing's going to burst. There's a lot of dumb money out there waiting for this supposed pop, so any sign of a price drop will be supplanted by the dumb money. If anything there's some froth, and you should be looking for sellers that are in a bind and HAVE to sell. Remember, most people that qualify for loans can afford to pay for the mortgage, and even if rates go up, this can be offset by less spending and/or higher income.

I am talking specifically about Metro California areas (LA and SJ) where land is scarce and new homes are not being built. Of course Sacramento on the other hand...

Dumb money may give you a temporary bounce, but it won't reverse the long term bursting of this bubble. This is why you will have to wait several years. You have to wait till all the dumb money is gone, and all the buyers are scared off.
 

bleuless

Senior member
Jul 25, 2001
437
0
76
here's a bit of my own experience.

i bought in sunnyvale 2bd 2bath condo, at the peak, but i was able to get a 5.5% interest rate, this was ~1.5 year ago. the price has since then dropped about 5% to 10% at least that is what it appears to me from my neighbor sales.

in the retroperspective, if i did not buy at the peak, i would not enjoy the 5.5% rate (5 year fix). 5 year is a short time for economy to recover, but what i am banking on is a small profit, and maybe i might just keep it to build equity for a 2nd investment home.

yes, the price might drop, but you are almost guranteed not to see rates below 7% in a few years. and i have faith that the demand in these area will remain modest to strong, heck i moved here from east coast and loved it so much, all my friends visited me planned on moving here. CA is attractive, and even so for the bay area. so the demand will always be there.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
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I'm not from the Bay Area, so I can't say anything about the particular area. And frankly (and I think I already said this), I wouldn't buy a condo. The condo market is always more volatile than that of single-family homes. If you do buy a condo, make sure that the development has a high owner-occupancy rate (this is crucial).
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
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Originally posted by: Vic
Perhaps I misunderstood, but saying that anyone who bought a condo right now would lose equity almost right away based on ARM mortgages adjusting would be implying mortgages that were originated in the past (as most ARMs are fixed for the first 3 to 5 years).
I read that as slightly different than you did, but I don't want to argue about someone else's semantics. I was just trying to understand your point more fully. A point that I mostly agree with. I'll boil it down to what I consider the most important aspect of your posts in this thread:
So if you're planning to buy into a "hot market," don't. If you're planning to buy because you want to own your own home, then do.
I agree on both counts. However, I like to add a qualifier. If you are planning to buy because you want to own your own home, then do, but (1) you might be better off researching throughly and (2) while doing so, waiting a few months might get you a better overall cost. Don't wait years and years as that violates your whole premise of buying a house because you want a house. But don't rush in mad like you need to buy the house quickly either (like you possibly should have done in a quickly rising market). This is the one time in housing where a slow, steady, methodical approach to homeownership might be the best option.

An expert like you, Vic, might not need qualifiers (like what I added above and many others that I could have added) because they are obvious. However, young homebuyers might not realize the obvious.
 

richardycc

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2001
5,719
1
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rate is back down to 5.875? I closed in May 06, and I got 6.5, and that was the pretty good back then, maybe time to refi.
 

bleuless

Senior member
Jul 25, 2001
437
0
76
i also find 5.875 hard to believe, maybe full doc and some special terms... but still sounds lower than what i've heard recently a minimum of 6.5 or higher.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
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Originally posted by: bleuless
i also find 5.875 hard to believe, maybe full doc and some special terms... but still sounds lower than what i've heard recently a minimum of 6.5 or higher.

Of course full doc. I crunched the DTI. And good credit (also, of course). No special terms except maybe pay a bit of the closing costs. I don't know why everyone has this idea that mortgage rates went sky high. They didn't.
 

bleuless

Senior member
Jul 25, 2001
437
0
76
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: bleuless
i also find 5.875 hard to believe, maybe full doc and some special terms... but still sounds lower than what i've heard recently a minimum of 6.5 or higher.

Of course full doc. I crunched the DTI. And good credit (also, of course). No special terms except maybe pay a bit of the closing costs. I don't know why everyone has this idea that mortgage rates went sky high. They didn't.

it didn't go "sky high" but it surely went higher than 6% are we talking about bay area? what are your condition and terms? i just find 5.875 a very good deal for a regular 30 year loan, mind letting us know who you are getting your loan from?
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,544
2,219
126
For those of you thinking about spending every last available penny on this nationwide real estate bubble:


http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=76276

Americans Cashed Out $715 Billion in Home Equity Since 2001 To Bridge the Gap Between Falling Salaries And Higher Costs


NEW YORK, Nov. 14 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Homeowners have been tapping into their home equity to get the cash needed to pay down credit card debt incurred not for luxury expenses, but for basic needs. This strategy leaves them on precarious financial footing after two years of interest rate hikes and the largest drop in home prices in 35 years, according to "House of Cards 2006 Update: Still Refinancing The American Dream", a report published today by Demos, a non-partisan public policy organization based in New York.

"House of Cards 2006" is based on extensive analysis of government, industry and academic research and provides a comprehensive analysis of the causes and impact of the mortgage refinancing boom in the United States since 2001. The report shows that, as mortgage interest rates fell to record levels during the refinance boom, many Americans cashed out home equity to pay down debt and finance living expenses -- a quick-fix that compounds the long-term economic burdens of the average family. The net result: The financial well-being of many Americans is at risk as the refinancing boom blurred the line between good debt - - debt that results in an appreciable asset, such as a house with equity -- and bad debt, which does not.

"As the housing bubble deflates and with interest rates on risky adjustable rate mortgages rising, more and more homeowners are feeling the pinch," said Jennifer Wheary, senior fellow at Demos and co-author of the report. "About $1.4 trillion in adjustable rate mortgages will reset between 2006 and the end of 2007, leaving many homeowners facing monthly payments that are 25 percent higher. Since refinancing for a second or third time has become a common band-aid to offset skyrocketing costs and delay the impact of a weaker housing market, many homeowners will find themselves making unmanageable payments on houses in which they have little or no equity and which may no longer hold the value of the original mortgage."

"This is a dangerous time for American families," added Wheary. "About a third of home mortgages continue at an adjustable rate; previously-rare interest-only mortgages made up 20 percent of home loans in 2005; and sub-prime home loans are widespread. The evidence is clear -- default rates could skyrocket in the coming years as millions of American homeowners find themselves way over their heads in these loans."

Key findings from the report include:

-- Households cashed out $715 billion worth of home equity between 2001 and 2005. In the three years between 2003 and 2005, owners extracted $150 million more in equity from their homes than they did in the previous eight.

-- Households have used cash equity from their homes to cover living expenses and pay down credit card debt, further eroding their homes' cash value, which many families rely on for economic security in times of emergency, to finance education or for retirement.

-- Between 1973 and 2004, average home equity actually fell -- from 68.3 percent to 55 percent. In other words, Americans own less of their homes today than they did in the 1970s and early 1980s.

-- In 2006, the financial obligations ratio -- the percentage of monthly income to the amount needed to manage monthly debt payments -- surpassed 19 percent, a record since data started being collected in 1980.

-- About $400 billion worth of adjustable-rate mortgages, representing about five percent of all outstanding mortgage debt, are set to readjust this year for the first time. Another $1 trillion in loans are set to readjust in 2007.

-- Adjustable rate mortgages made up 31 percent of home loans in 2005. Interest-only loans, which were uncommon just two years ago, made up about 20 percent of loans.

-- Industry experts predict a spike in refinancing next year as homeowners seek relief from these large increases and look to refinance for the second or third time.

-- The rise of appraisal fraud has fueled inflated home prices over the last several years and could leave many homeowners "upside down" in their homes -- that is, owing much more than the true market value of their home.

-- Even though it is underreported, appraisal fraud was the fastest type of mortgage fraud reported by major lenders in 2000 and there is no end in sight. In 2005 more than 22,000 cases of mortgage fraud were reported to the FBI, a seven fold increase since 1999.

-- With the past two years of interest rate hikes by the Federal Reserve, families with adjustable rate mortgages are experiencing significant increases in their monthly mortgage payments. The combination of higher mortgage payments coupled with rising costs of basic living expenses represents a growing financial threat and is leading many families to refinance for a second or third time.

One of the most alarming findings in the report is the role that mortgage fraud, in particular appraisal fraud, plays in the refinancing process. There are growing numbers of third party brokers pressuring appraisers to inflate home values in order to "close the deal" and reap larger fees or bonuses. The consequence can be dire for homeowners who refinance and draw out more cash equity than their home is actually worth. Unfortunately, banks often spend little time investigating the appraisal process, because they normally hold the loans for a short period before they re-bundle and sell them to investment firms.

The report suggests reforms that would have immediate and long-lasting impact-to improve the financial security of America's households:

-- Enact a Borrower's Security Act. New legislation is required in order to ensure that borrowers are protected from the excessive rates, fees and capricious changes in account terms, which are all legal and common industry practices today.

-- Strengthen Current Bankruptcy Laws To Support Hard Working Families In Severe Economic Distress. Bankruptcy is the last resort for hard working families who find themselves in dire straits. Many middle class families are left in this situation from unforeseen circumstances such as health problems and unpredictable illness. In 2005 Congress passed sweeping changes to bankruptcy laws which removed many protections available to average families. As families' financial stability grows increasingly fragile and the safety net of home equity evaporates, these changes must be reexamined and reversed.

-- Protect Americans from Appraisal Fraud. While Congress passed comprehensive reforms after the Savings and Loans financial crisis, further reform is needed to protect consumers from the ruinous effects of appraisal fraud. The Appraisal Institute reported that more than 7,000 appraisers have been pressured to inflate appraisals. Congress should ensure that brokers are prohibited from coercing or intimidating appraisers in order to receive a desired property appraisal value.

"There's a financial crisis hitting America's families," said Tamara Draut, director of the Economic Opportunity Program at Demos. "In order to make ends meet, Americans have been depleting the one key asset that most rely on for future financial security -- their home. And now out of control lending practices are going to cause millions to teeter on the edge. There are many clear steps that Congress can take to start to protect America's households from economic ruin, and help restore the security that homeownership once promised. They can, and should, start now."

To view the full report, "A House of Cards 2006 Update: Still Refinancing The American Dream", visit http://www.demos.org
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,544
2,219
126
AND ITS NOT GETTING ANY BETTER, even for "average people with average loans":

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/15995536.htm

As of Sept. 30, 5.5 percent of FHA loans made in Fort Worth-Arlington went into default within two years of being made, according to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. That rate compares with 3.3 percent nationwide during the same period and 4.7 percent for all of Texas.
 

bleuless

Senior member
Jul 25, 2001
437
0
76
that's like quoting the bible, its still up for interpretation, and we are still waiting for doomsday to come.
 

erub

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
5,481
0
0
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
AND ITS NOT GETTING ANY BETTER, even for "average people with average loans":

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/15995536.htm

As of Sept. 30, 5.5 percent of FHA loans made in Fort Worth-Arlington went into default within two years of being made, according to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. That rate compares with 3.3 percent nationwide during the same period and 4.7 percent for all of Texas.

uhhh FHA housing loans aren't exactly made to people with prime credit histories and strong jobs.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,544
2,219
126
Originally posted by: erub
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
AND ITS NOT GETTING ANY BETTER, even for "average people with average loans":

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/15995536.htm

As of Sept. 30, 5.5 percent of FHA loans made in Fort Worth-Arlington went into default within two years of being made, according to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. That rate compares with 3.3 percent nationwide during the same period and 4.7 percent for all of Texas.

uhhh FHA housing loans aren't exactly made to people with prime credit histories and strong jobs.


Hogwash. Mortgage money is mortgage money. Not everybody wants to tie up all their money in a home. While it is smart to avoid PMI/MIP, "prime credit histories" and "strong jobs" can mean anything.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Originally posted by: bleuless
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: bleuless
i also find 5.875 hard to believe, maybe full doc and some special terms... but still sounds lower than what i've heard recently a minimum of 6.5 or higher.

Of course full doc. I crunched the DTI. And good credit (also, of course). No special terms except maybe pay a bit of the closing costs. I don't know why everyone has this idea that mortgage rates went sky high. They didn't.

it didn't go "sky high" but it surely went higher than 6% are we talking about bay area? what are your condition and terms? i just find 5.875 a very good deal for a regular 30 year loan, mind letting us know who you are getting your loan from?
I'm a broker.

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: erub
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
AND ITS NOT GETTING ANY BETTER, even for "average people with average loans":

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/15995536.htm

As of Sept. 30, 5.5 percent of FHA loans made in Fort Worth-Arlington went into default within two years of being made, according to the Department of Housing and Urban Development. That rate compares with 3.3 percent nationwide during the same period and 4.7 percent for all of Texas.

uhhh FHA housing loans aren't exactly made to people with prime credit histories and strong jobs.

Hogwash. Mortgage money is mortgage money. Not everybody wants to tie up all their money in a home. While it is smart to avoid PMI/MIP, "prime credit histories" and "strong jobs" can mean anything.
5.5% is not an unusual default rate for FHA loans.