Is multi-gpu the way to go now?

[Silverforce11]

There's hardly a problem with CF/SLI scaling in games where they need the performance. Some older or non-AAA titles don't have support but its often running at 100 fps+ anyway on one card.

In recent releases, only DA2 and Shogun 2 lack scaling, and it was only afflicting SLI. NV fixed the problem relatively quickly. So, dual cards are well worth it. Perf/$$ is often 20-50% better than single GPUs.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Then you're doing it wrong.

False, is present in ALL multi-GPU setups due to the nature of copying a frame from GPU2's framebuffer to GPU1's framebuffer.

It's a fact, denying it is ignorant.

But it's not certain if multi GPU will affect you or not...than depends on you "biology".

 

[SlowSpyder]

False, is present in ALL multi-GPU setups due to the nature of copying a frame from GPU2's framebuffer to GPU1's framebuffer.

It's a fact, denying it is ignorant.

But it's not certain if multi GPU will affect you or not...than depends on you "biology".

Microstuttering is there with single GPU's as well, it's just less pronounced. But, my point is (and maybe I should have expanded on it in my earlier reply) that if you buy two cards/GPU's to give you similar performance of what a single card/GPU can already give you, you're likely taking the wrong path. If a GTX580 gives you 40FPS in game X, then you don't want to buy two cards/GPU's that will also give you that same performance. You should buy two cards that will give you 60+FPS (in his case he has a 120Hz monitor, so the more FPS the better).

When your frame rate is quite high microstuttering is much, much less noticible, it will appear a lot more like a single GPU of the same performance. As pointed out before, for 30FPS you need a frame every 33ms. So if a single GPU gives you your frame every ~30-36ms you can have your 30FPS and the frame are rendered pretty uniformly. A multi-GPU setup giving you 30FPS may have a 10ms space and then a 50ms space between them, that's bad, that's microstuttering.

Now if you choose two cards that give you closer to 60FPS you're getting twice the frames in the same amount of time. Now your single GPU needs to render a frame every ~16ms. So if your multi-GPU system is rendering twice as many frames, you should see about half the space in between the 'micro-stutter' frames. So now you'll see four frames where you used to see two in the same amount of time, that means that even the furthest spaced frames will be very close, likely around two frames rendered on a single GPU @ 30FPS. A frame 10ms after the last then 25ms later for the next will be much harder to precieve.

And in the case of 120Hz the gap should close even further.

So, no, I'm not ignorant. I'm not denying that microstutter exists and that some people are sensitive to it. I'm saying that you should not buy two cards to get the same performance you can get out of a single GPU set up if you are sensitive to microstutter... you will have a worse gaming experience overall. But if the fastest card you can afford isn't going to net well over 30FPS at your settings then two cards makes a lot of sense and microstutter doesn't have to be a deal breaker if you buy the right cards to get the right performance. I truly believe for 99% of gamers out there that a single GPU @ 36FPS would be a worse experience than dual GPU @ 55FPS.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Microstuttering is there with single GPU's as well, it's just less pronounced. But, my point is (and maybe I should have expanded on it in my earlier reply) that if you buy two cards/GPU's to give you similar performance of what a single card/GPU can already give you, you're likely taking the wrong path. If a GTX580 gives you 40FPS in game X, then you don't want to buy two cards/GPU's that will also give you that same performance. You should buy two cards that will give you 60+FPS (in his case he has a 120Hz monitor, so the more FPS the better).

When your frame rate is quite high microstuttering is much, much less noticible, it will appear a lot more like a single GPU of the same performance. As pointed out before, for 30FPS you need a frame every 33ms. So if a single GPU gives you your frame every ~30-36ms you can have your 30FPS and the frame are rendered pretty uniformly. A multi-GPU setup giving you 30FPS may have a 10ms space and then a 50ms space between them, that's bad, that's microstuttering.

Now if you choose two cards that give you closer to 60FPS you're getting twice the frames in the same amount of time. Now your single GPU needs to render a frame every ~16ms. So if your multi-GPU system is rendering twice as many frames, you should see about half the space in between the 'micro-stutter' frames. So now you'll see four frames where you used to see two in the same amount of time, that means that even the furthest spaced frames will be very close, likely around two frames rendered on a single GPU @ 30FPS. A frame 10ms after the last then 25ms later for the next will be much harder to precieve.

And in the case of 120Hz the gap should close even further.

So, no, I'm not ignorant. I'm not denying that microstutter exists and that some people are sensitive to it. I'm saying that you should not buy two cards to get the same performance you can get out of a single GPU set up if you are sensitive to microstutter... you will have a worse gaming experience overall. But if the fastest card you can afford isn't going to net well over 30FPS at your settings then two cards makes a lot of sense and microstutter doesn't have to be a deal breaker if you buy the right cards to get the right performance. I truly believe for 99% of gamers out there that a single GPU @ 36FPS would be a worse experience than dual GPU @ 55FPS.

You should read up:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2155860

It even has this link:
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/ati4870x2cf/index.php?p=2

Now you should stop compring seals to remote, okay?

Or you could join the club of Akardrel and JAG87 (the guy who is cluesless about SSAA) and claim that single GPU and multi GPU act alike...without any documentation.

The choice is yours.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You should read up:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2155860

It even has this link:
http://www.rage3d.com/reviews/video/ati4870x2cf/index.php?p=2

Now you should stop compring seals to remote, okay?

Or you could join the club of Akardrel and JAG87 (the guy who is cluesless about SSAA) and claim that single GPU and multi GPU act alike...without any documentation.

The choice is yours.

What you said here has nothing to do with what I said. Let me try again with a shorter, simpiler version.

1 - Microstuttering exists and some people are sensitive to it.

2 - If you are buying two GPU's/two cards to get the same performance that a single GPU/card can deliver at a given budget, then you will likely have a worse overall gaming experience. (Do not buy two 5770's over one 5870 if you could get either for about the same price)

3 - If you buy two cards that can give you better performance than a single GPU at the same budget, and get 60FPS or more most of the time at your settings and resolution, then you will likely have a better overall gaming experience and microstuttering will be minimal. (Do buy two 6950's over a GTX580 if the GTX580 will likely give you 30-40FPS at your settings and resolution)

 

[Lonbjerg]

What you said here has nothing to do with what I said. Let me try again with a shorter, simpiler version.

1 - Microstuttering exists and some people are sensitive to it.

2 - If you are buying two GPU's/two cards to get the same performance that a single GPU/card can deliver at a given budget, then you will likely have a worse overall gaming experience. (Do not buy two 5770's over one 5870 if you could get either for about the same price)

3 - If you buy two cards that can give you better performance than a single GPU at the same budget, and get 60FPS or more most of the time at your settings and resolution, then you will likely have a better overall gaming experience and microstuttering will be minimal. (Do buy two 6950's over a GTX580 if the GTX580 will likely give you 30-40FPS at your settings and resolution)

Nice spin...but lets drop the boring smoke&mirrors and go back to you fallacy like statement that single GPU have the same microstutter as multi GPU?
Or the your first post trying to make microstutter to be a user error?

Wake me up when you have a consistant stance, okay?

 

[Monster_Munch]

I've owned both SLI and Crossfire setups in the past but abandoned them both due to microstuttering.

Fraps might report 50 fps but the stuttering causes it to look subjectively less smooth than a single GPU running at 40 fps. In the end I came to conclusion that multi-GPU setups are only really worth it if your main interest is getting high benchmark scores rather than actually playing games.

I've never owned a dual-gpu card like the 6990, but I assume it will be the same since they still use AFR.

 

[Lepton87]

Nice spin...but lets drop the boring smoke&mirrors and go back to you fallacy like statement that single GPU have the same microstutter as multi GPU?
Or the your first post trying to make microstutter to be a user error?

Wake me up when you have a consistant stance, okay?

He didn't say it was the same on a single GPU, what he did say is that even a single GPU does not render frames at equal intervals so technically microstuttering is still there, but it's negligible. I recently added a second GPU to my computer, If microstuttering was really that bad my gaming comfort should not have improved much, but it's a night and day difference. For me everything under 60fps feels choppy regardless if it's rendered on a single GPU or on a multi-GPU setup.

 

[lavaheadache]

Microstuttering.

not worth your time, Some people either don't see it, don't care or don't even know what they are looking at. For people like you and I, it's single gpu unless I absolutely *must* get a dual card setup up for one reason or other. I have had Sli from every generation and Crossfire from all but the x800 series. Microstuttering has always been prevelant to me and a usually not worth the trade off in added performance. Some times Dual Gpu made a noticable difference but there were just too many times i was frustrated with it. When I spend lots of extra money for a supposedly better experience i don't want to regret it

 

[SlowSpyder]

Nice spin...but lets drop the boring smoke&mirrors and go back to you fallacy like statement that single GPU have the same microstutter as multi GPU?
Or the your first post trying to make microstutter to be a user error?

Wake me up when you have a consistant stance, okay?

Please re-read my statements. You are difficult to impossible to have a conversation with anytime someone doesn't 100% agree with you. The world isn't completely black and white, you know..? It'd be great if you could reread my posts, stop trying to interpret anything I say that doesn't jive with your stance completely as far to the extreme other side as possible.

I said that single GPU's do exhibit microstuttering to some degree. Show me anywhere that I said the microstuttering on a single GPU is "the same" as on a multiGPU set up. In fact, here is exactly what I said, "Microstuttering is there with single GPU's as well, it's just less pronounced." How on earth did you interpret that to mean I meant the same thing as the microstuttering in multiGPU setups?

The reason I mentioned that is because I'm trying to point out that as your frame rate increases with a multiGPU set up, the 'stutter' between displayed frames becomes much, much smaller. So as your frame rate increases to 60-120Hz on a multiGPU set up the stutter will be much less percievable.

This isn't spin. This isn't smoke and mirrors.

I also did not mean to imply that microstutter is a user error in itself. But, picking out the wrong cards will highlight it and give you a worse gaming experience. Again, 55FPS on a dual GPU setup will likely give a much better experience than 36FPS on a single GPU setup. Going with a dual GPU setup to get 36FPS (when a single card already can give you that) would be the wrong way to go about buying dual cards.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Then you're doing it wrong.

Please re-read my statements. You are difficult to impossible to have a conversation with anytime someone doesn't 100% agree with you. The world isn't completely black and white, you know..? It'd be great if you could reread my posts, stop trying to interpret anything I say that doesn't jive with your stance completely as far to the extreme other side as possible.[/qoute]

I just reread your little "gem":

Then you're doing it wrong.

Like I said...wake me up when you have a consistant stance.
Don't point your finger at me for posting crap *shrugs*

 

[DrBoss]

I recently built a rig with two MSI R6950 Twin Frozr II's... i love it

I must not have turbo video-phile eyeballs or something, because despite always reading negative comments (*and online keyboard typed feuds/duals) about microstutter, i have yet to see it.

Seriously
Crysis on Very High, with 16xAA and AF running at 78 average frames per second... no single card come close to touching that kind of performance.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I recently built a rig with 2 Radeon 6950's... i love it

I must not have turbo video-phile eyeballs or something, because despite always reading negative comments about microstutter, i have yet to see it.

Seriously, Crysis on Very High, with 16xAA and AF running at 78 average frames per second... no single card come close to touching that kind of performance.

Perhaps you don't know what to look for.
It was the smae thing with shimmering.
Untill people got showed how it looked, many people simply didn't notice.

 

[Monster_Munch]

I must not have turbo video-phile eyeballs or something, because despite always reading negative comments (*and online keyboard typed feuds/duals) about microstutter, i have yet to see it.

When you see it you'll shit bricks.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I just reread your little "gem":



Like I said...wake me up when you have a consistant stance.
Don't point your finger at me for posting crap *shrugs*

And I have expanded on that several times now. I have explained what I meant and you continue to look at it as I'm blaming a user for the existence of microstutter in a mult-GPU AFR set up. This is clearly not the case, as I've explained a few times now. Once you can move past that and understand that I am saying that the cards a user chooses has a lot to do with how big the 'stutter' will be, maybe then you'll understand my point.

Seeing as I've explained this more than once now, and have tried to convey the exact same message, I would consider my stance to be consistent.

 

[Lepton87]

Perhaps you don't know what to look for.
It was the smae thing with shimmering.
Untill people got showed how it looked, many people simply didn't notice.

This is ridiculous, if it really were a problem for him then it would instantly bother him, if someone really has to look for it to notice it, it's not a problem for that person.

 

[DrBoss]

Perhaps you don't know what to look for.
It was the smae thing with shimmering.
Untill people got showed how it looked, many people simply didn't notice.

yes,

infact i am a retard, who is unfortunately unable to read online forums and technical analysis about the subject in question. so yes, as you assume, i have no understanding of the subject which i felt compelled to engage.

funny story. my great great great great great grandfather almost didn't marry my great great great great great grandmother because it was well known in their village that her family suffered from an eyeball deficiency they called "lazy-eyeball-ungood-itis". Also... she was a retard, which was a less than admirable trait... but the old ah heck married (banged) her anyway, and hot damn, here i am, generations later and it all paid off, because as i mentioned in my first post, "i don't see it".

perhaps you should re-re-re-re-re-reread my post.

i never said micro stuttering didn't exist.

by the way, do you have two R6950's? have you played games using two R6950's?




The OP asked "Is Multi-GPU the way to go now?"

I say yes,
you say no,

The end.

 

[Lonbjerg]

This is ridiculous, if it really were a problem for him then it would instantly bother him, if someone really has to look for it to notice it, it's not a problem for that person.

That is actually false, because our brains works in a funny way.
Back before movies got digital, there where these "cigarette burns" that told when to exchange movie-reels.
Nobody noticed these....unless you pointed them out to people...which leaad to that they always noticed these "cigarette burns" afterwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_mark

Once you SEE them...you cannot unsee them again...ever.

 

[Joseph F]

Wouldn't microstuttering go away if both GPUs worked on the same frame at the same time in say, a chessboard pattern divided into groups of 2x2 pixels and completed frames were mixed together and only output through one card? The way I see it is that this way you'd see double the framerate (assuming perfect scaling) and a consistent output speed without the multi-GPU jitters.

 

[Elfear]

What you said here has nothing to do with what I said. Let me try again with a shorter, simpiler version.

1 - Microstuttering exists and some people are sensitive to it.

2 - If you are buying two GPU's/two cards to get the same performance that a single GPU/card can deliver at a given budget, then you will likely have a worse overall gaming experience. (Do not buy two 5770's over one 5870 if you could get either for about the same price)

3 - If you buy two cards that can give you better performance than a single GPU at the same budget, and get 60FPS or more most of the time at your settings and resolution, then you will likely have a better overall gaming experience and microstuttering will be minimal. (Do buy two 6950's over a GTX580 if the GTX580 will likely give you 30-40FPS at your settings and resolution)

+1

Multi-gpus are a bad idea if a single card is close to the same performance and price but there are situations when a single card just doesn't have enough power. Rather than turn all the settings down so the game looks likes dump, use multiple gpus. Can microstutter affect your gameplay? Sure, but in my experience those times are rare.

I'd much rather have a more detailed and immersive game 95% of the time and suffer the microstutter the other 5%. Or better yet just lower the settings a little until fps came up above the noticeable microstutter threshold for those rare extremely demanding games. Good trade off IMO.

 

[exar333]

Only worth-it if you NEED the extra performance on high-res displays or multi-display setups. For the same money on anything 1920x1200 or less, a single is a better deal. The issue is a little more confusing when you have a mid-high or high performing GPU from a previous class and it is cheaper to add another one versus buy a brand-new card. I still will generally opt to completely replace and just sell the old card. Multi-GPUs add additional headaches in my opinion, but are neccessary in some cases.

 

[alcoholbob]

Multi-GPU helps in cases where a single GPU can't handle it at all. Would you rather have a 20fps slideshow or a Multi-GPU that's 35fps about 90% of the time? Even if it looks worse 10% of the time I'd still take that.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Multi-GPU helps in cases where a single GPU can't handle it at all. Would you rather have a 20fps slideshow or a Multi-GPU that's 35fps about 90% of the time? Even if it looks worse 10% of the time I'd still take that.

I don't own a console, I own a PC...most games have a setting for graphics...I tweak all my to find the optimal settings.

You should try it sometime.

 

[tigersty1e]

it's so ironic, single gpu's are supposed to good multitaskers with many cores and shaders working in conjunction together to produce an image, yet they can't efficiently get 2 single gpu's to work in conjunction with each other.

 

[alcoholbob]

I don't own a console, I own a PC...most games have a setting for graphics...I tweak all my to find the optimal settings.

You should try it sometime.

I have the money for a high-end PC so I like to turn the settings up.

You should leave you mom's basement and get a job. Try it sometime.