Is Linux worth running

[Nothinman]

> KDE4 (much better multi-threading support) - Q1 2007

What the hell is that supposed to mean? You can actually say that you've noticed KDE being slow because of lock contention or single-threaded'ness?

> Xorg 7.2 (much enhanced XGL support) - Q4 2006

Xorg needs better XGL support to be 'world class'? Most people get bored with that kind of eye-candy after ~5 minutes, it's nice for a demo but there's very little value to it in day to day activities.

> total 64bit application support (right now, 64bit just isn't worth it, more reliable to stick with 32bit) - ??? openoffice anyone!

Linux has had full 64-bit support for over a decade, just because mixing 64-bit and 32-bit apps on AMD64 isn't fun doesn't change that. And Org is crap in a lot more areas than that, every time I use it I cringe and not because it's not 64-bit clean.

> stable and reliable XGL or AIGLX (XGL is still really a development toy atm) - Q4 2006

Again, why? What do you really think XGL/AIGLX is going to help you accomplish that you can't do now?

> Resier4 filesystem in mainline kernel (does appear to be the way forward) - ??? whenever Hans and the Devs stop argueing!

Hans Reiser is an ass, the reason reiser4 isn't in mainline yet is because it doesn't follow the kernel coding conventions and it has some serious layering violations. Both of those could have been avoided i Hans's team hadn't developed the thing in the dark without any input from the rest of the kernel developers. And Hans track record for being a maintainer isn't exactly good either, Reiser3 was essentially forgotten about as soon as Hans ran off to work on Reiser4 and left to be maintained by SuSe. Reiser4 has a lot of cool potential, but I know I won't shed a tear if it gets dropped on the floor.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: R3MF
is linux worth running? yes.

but there are a couple of technologies that it could really do with to be world class:
> KDE4 (much better multi-threading support) - Q1 2007
> Xorg 7.2 (much enhanced XGL support) - Q4 2006
> nVidia 90 series Linux drivers (if they come with the render_to_pixmap ext ension) - Q4 2006
> Koffice2 (completely integrated office/productivity suite) - Q1 2007
> Kernel with full support for new AM2 & Conroe chipsets (time to iron out the forcedeth type issues) - Q4 2006
> total 64bit application support (right now, 64bit just isn't worth it, more reliable to stick with 32bit) - ??? openoffice anyone!
> stable and reliable XGL or AIGLX (XGL is still really a development toy atm) - Q4 2006
> Amarok2 (best audio prog around) - Q1 2007

a couple of technologies i would like to see:
> Resier4 filesystem in mainline kernel (does appear to be the way forward) - ??? whenever Hans and the Devs stop argueing!
> Samba4 (arrival of ADS) - Q4 2006

so, here's hoping SUSE 10.2 comes out in Feb 07.

Yeah hopefully Suse will adopt a lot of the new stuff before it starts doing a feature freeze on 10.2. I got kinda sad when I heard 10.1 wouldn't be using Gnome 2.14 and stuff.

Can't wait for 10.2!! :beer:

 

[Nothinman]

I got kinda sad when I heard 10.1 wouldn't be using Gnome 2.14 and stuff.

Why? Can you name even one thing in 2.14 that you're missing out on by using 2.12?

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Just better performance.

http://www.gnome.org/start/2.14/notes/en/rnusers.html

And I love to grab the latest software. I update from the factory repository on Suse just to get all the latest fixes. Gnome 2.12 has been somewhat iffy on me..

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

> KDE4 (much better multi-threading support) - Q1 2007

What the hell is that supposed to mean? You can actually say that you've noticed KDE being slow because of lock contention or single-threaded'ness?

I just can't wait for KDE 4 to come out. I want to see where they're taking the desktop.

Originally posted by: Nothinman

> Xorg 7.2 (much enhanced XGL support) - Q4 2006

Xorg needs better XGL support to be 'world class'? Most people get bored with that kind of eye-candy after ~5 minutes, it's nice for a demo but there's very little value to it in day to day activities.

Umm, before XGL I didn't even bother with virtual desktops. Seriously.. Coming from the windows world, they only served a hassle to think which application went where and to find it. And then maintaining those applications in the correct virtual desktop... But when it was fun to switch desktops I began using them. Without XGL, I don't use virtual desktops.

And XGL doesn't have to be some kind of useful tool. We need to make linux look nice so it will one day be bought or used by all for the desktop as an alternative to Windows (which thanks to Novell, we might actually see that day).

 

[unmerited]

Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX

Umm, before XGL I didn't even bother with virtual desktops. Seriously.. Coming from the windows world, they only served a hassle to think which application went where and to find it. And then maintaining those applications in the correct virtual desktop... But when it was fun to switch desktops I began using them. Without XGL, I don't use virtual desktops.

And XGL doesn't have to be some kind of useful tool. We need to make linux look nice so it will one day be bought or used by all for the desktop as an alternative to Windows (which thanks to Novell, we might actually see that day).

That's interesting because it's the exact opposite for me. Virtual desktops was one of the main things that attracted me to Linux when I first started trying it out. The ability to have several programs open without cluttering up the desktop is really nice, for me anyway.

I haven't tried XGL out yet. Looks cool. I think the desktop is coming along pretty good. In fact, most people who see me using Linux always comment how nice the desktop and graphics look.


unmerited

 

[Underclocked]

My biggest gripe about linux would be the insane naming "schemes" used. Kthis, Kthat, .....kWHUT?

 

[Nothinman]

Just better performance.

I keep waiting for Gnome terminal to run at an acceptable speed and even with 2.14 xterm still kicks it's ass.

Umm, before XGL I didn't even bother with virtual desktops. Seriously.. Coming from the windows world, they only served a hassle to think which application went where and to find it. And then maintaining those applications in the correct virtual desktop... But when it was fun to switch desktops I began using them. Without XGL, I don't use virtual desktops.

If you need something to have a lot of graphical flare before you try it out, I feel sorry for you because you're missing out on a lot of useful functionality on your computer. And once you get comfortable with virtual desktops the delay in switching around via XGL and crap will most likely just annoy you. The entertainment value will wear of quickly.

My biggest gripe about linux would be the insane naming "schemes" used. Kthis, Kthat, .....kWHUT?

Right, because "Windows Vista" is a lot more descriptive.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: Nothinman


If you need something to have a lot of graphical flare before you try it out, I feel sorry for you because you're missing out on a lot of useful functionality on your computer.

I think his point was that your every-day suburban computer owner uses their computer as a toy and XGL is a neat toy.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: unmerited

Originally posted by: SleepWalkerX

Umm, before XGL I didn't even bother with virtual desktops. Seriously.. Coming from the windows world, they only served a hassle to think which application went where and to find it. And then maintaining those applications in the correct virtual desktop... But when it was fun to switch desktops I began using them. Without XGL, I don't use virtual desktops.

And XGL doesn't have to be some kind of useful tool. We need to make linux look nice so it will one day be bought or used by all for the desktop as an alternative to Windows (which thanks to Novell, we might actually see that day).

That's interesting because it's the exact opposite for me. Virtual desktops was one of the main things that attracted me to Linux when I first started trying it out. The ability to have several programs open without cluttering up the desktop is really nice, for me anyway.

I haven't tried XGL out yet. Looks cool. I think the desktop is coming along pretty good. In fact, most people who see me using Linux always comment how nice the desktop and graphics look.


unmerited

Yeah, virtual desktops was that one killer desktop app that really drew me to linux. I can't believe Windows has gone so long without them. They actually release a PowerToy to give XP virtual desktops, but man it slowed stuff down and crashed my computer more. I think I've heard Vist is supposed to have them standard.

 

[Nothinman]

Windows does have virtual desktops standard, has since NT3.51 IIRC, but there's just been no useful interface with which to use them.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Umm, before XGL I didn't even bother with virtual desktops. Seriously.. Coming from the windows world, they only served a hassle to think which application went where and to find it. And then maintaining those applications in the correct virtual desktop... But when it was fun to switch desktops I began using them. Without XGL, I don't use virtual desktops.

If you need something to have a lot of graphical flare before you try it out, I feel sorry for you because you're missing out on a lot of useful functionality on your computer. And once you get comfortable with virtual desktops the delay in switching around via XGL and crap will most likely just annoy you. The entertainment value will wear of quickly.

Believe me, I've tried to use them. It was just a hassle. Well if there's one thing that would help me use virtual desktops is just mapping the right keys. The most I should press to switch a desktop is just two keys and I shouldn't have to use both my hands on the keyboard to switch them (as I'll need one on the mouse to be productive). But I guess that's something I can easily set.. somewhere..

 

[Nothinman]

Believe me, I've tried to use them. It was just a hassle.

Hitting CTRL+FX or ALT+FX to switch desktops is a hassle?

 

[SleepWalkerX]

Apparently so. What would the x stand for?

I hit alt+f2, but I know that brings up the Run Application box. And hitting the control or alt key alongwith an F button is a hassle if I have to stretch my hand across the keyboard.. Alt+Tab = nice and convenient. Alt+F9 = not convenient.

 

[Nothinman]

Yes, X is a number and I use ALT+FX to switch desktops. I suppose you could just use ALT+X if you wanted, but that would interfere with things like Galeon, irssi, etc that use that combination for switching their own windows and tabs.

Alt+Tab is for swithing tasks, I suppose you could remap it to do the "next desktop" thing but that would be annoying since you'd have to remap something else to switch tasks.

 

[bongsteen]

yes, it is worth running if you can dos you can linux.

 

[R3MF]

Originally posted by: Brazen

Originally posted by: R3MF
is linux worth running? yes.

> Samba4 (arrival of ADS) - Q4 2006

so, here's hoping SUSE 10.2 comes out in Feb 07.

I've been following Samba4. Where did you here Q4 2006 as a release timeframe? All I've seen is the devs say "it'll be released when it's finished."

there was a recent Samba4 article where they quoted the devs as saying "not before Summer" so i inferred from that that Fall/Autumn was a target in their mind.

 

[R3MF]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

1) What the hell is that supposed to mean? You can actually say that you've noticed KDE being slow because of lock contention or single-threaded'ness?

2) Xorg needs better XGL support to be 'world class'? Most people get bored with that kind of eye-candy after ~5 minutes, it's nice for a demo but there's very little value to it in day to day activities.

3) Linux has had full 64-bit support for over a decade, just because mixing 64-bit and 32-bit apps on AMD64 isn't fun doesn't change that. And Org is crap in a lot more areas than that, every time I use it I cringe and not because it's not 64-bit clean.

4) Again, why? What do you really think XGL/AIGLX is going to help you accomplish that you can't do now?

5) Hans Reiser is an ass, the reason reiser4 isn't in mainline yet is because it doesn't follow the kernel coding conventions and it has some serious layering violations. Both of those could have been avoided i Hans's team hadn't developed the thing in the dark without any input from the rest of the kernel developers. And Hans track record for being a maintainer isn't exactly good either, Reiser3 was essentially forgotten about as soon as Hans ran off to work on Reiser4 and left to be maintained by SuSe. Reiser4 has a lot of cool potential, but I know I won't shed a tear if it gets dropped on the floor.

1) i have noticed significant stalling/lagging on a KDE desktop when running krita and Amarok at the same time in Suse 10.1. i have read that KDE4 will have much better multithreading support intended to smooth out these bug-bears, therefore i want it.

2) i'm a tech geek, i like this kind of stuff, and i wouldn't know what to do with a CLI so the purity of l33t *nix is lost on me.

3) there are lots of things that are hideously crap about trying to install a fully featured 64bit linux distro, purely because of immature application/driver support. time will make it better than it is currently and that can only be a good thing.

4) it will make me wet in my panties.

5) i don't dispute all the problems the kernel devs have had with Hans, but like you said, R4 has a lot of cool potential, i'm a geek and i wanna see it.

regards

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: R3MF
5) i don't dispute all the problems the kernel devs have had with Hans, but like you said, R4 has a lot of cool potential, i'm a geek and i wanna see it.

I don't. At least not until Hans gets his head out of his ass.

 

[Nothinman]

1) i have noticed significant stalling/lagging on a KDE desktop when running krita and Amarok at the same time in Suse 10.1. i have read that KDE4 will have much better multithreading support intended to smooth out these bug-bears, therefore i want it.

That's odd, I would have figured that if threading contention was causing noticable slowdown they would have wanted it fixed sooner rather than later, I'm surprised they would wait until KDE4 to fix that. But there's a lot of other things that I dislike about KDE, so I don't really care what they do. =)

2) i'm a tech geek, i like this kind of stuff, and i wouldn't know what to do with a CLI so the purity of l33t *nix is lost on me.

It's not about purity, it's about usefulness and IMO XGL doesn't provide anything useful right now. Sure, I think hardware accelerated translucency and 'the cube effect' are cool, but they're not anywhere near a requirement for a 'world class' OS.

3) there are lots of things that are hideously crap about trying to install a fully featured 64bit linux distro, purely because of immature application/driver support. time will make it better than it is currently and that can only be a good thing.

99% of everything in Debian is already 64-bit clean because they've been supporting 64-bit systems for years now, some applications have alignment issues and can use a little cleanup but they generally work fine. The fact that the drivers for the new nVidia motherboard crap are immature isn't related to the fact that the system is 64-bit at all.

5) i don't dispute all the problems the kernel devs have had with Hans, but like you said, R4 has a lot of cool potential, i'm a geek and i wanna see it.

I guess I'm an old geek then, because even though Reiser4 seems cool I'm not willing to trust my data to it considering Hans' and Reiser3's past track record.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
But there's a lot of other things that I dislike about KDE, so I don't really care what they do. =)

The biggest benefit to KDE is the fact it isn't Gnome.

 

[Nothinman]

The biggest benefit to KDE is the fact it isn't Gnome.

I have the opposite opinion. I do disagree with some of the things that the Gnome devs do, but overall I think Gnome/GTK looks and feels a lot better than KDE/QT. I absolutely can't stand the KDE dialogs.

 

[drag]

Umm, before XGL I didn't even bother with virtual desktops. Seriously.. Coming from the windows world, they only served a hassle to think which application went where and to find it. And then maintaining those applications in the correct virtual desktop... But when it was fun to switch desktops I began using them. Without XGL, I don't use virtual desktops.

If you need something to have a lot of graphical flare before you try it out, I feel sorry for you because you're missing out on a lot of useful functionality on your computer. And once you get comfortable with virtual desktops the delay in switching around via XGL and crap will most likely just annoy you. The entertainment value will wear of quickly.

Ya.. XGL's main advantage is that it is bringing a new/better driver acceleration model to X Windows. It should end up simplifing driver development (by removing the need for multiple accelerated drivers sharing the same hardware), make the system more portable (by sticking to a industry standard API (opengl))(also the operating system can impliment drivers how they feel like it rather then having to port X's model), possibly increase security (by removing the need for X to be run with root privilages), and a few other things.

The 3d desktop will probably end up being usefull in itself with transformations and such, I could imagine a new interface paragram developing out of it through some sort of accidental genius but...

It's just about eye candy right now for end users and is fairly useless otherwise. It actually makes things quite a bit more complicated. For the time being. There is still a lot of development that needs to be done before XGL-based X servers become standard.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
<Linux User Attitude>

wtf
u need 2 ask?
u should stfu
and rtfm
gdmfin' noob
go back 2 winbloz
/kick gizbug "learn2linux"

</Linux User Attitude>

- M4H

I mainly use Windows, but I agree with those elitist Linux users... RTFM - there is so much documentation out there for Linux that with a bit of looking you'll find it all.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
<Linux User Attitude>

wtf
u need 2 ask?
u should stfu
and rtfm
gdmfin' noob
go back 2 winbloz
/kick gizbug "learn2linux"

</Linux User Attitude>

- M4H

I mainly use Windows, but I agree with those elitist Linux users... RTFM - there is so much documentation out there for Linux that with a bit of looking you'll find it all.

Previous last post: 06/12/2006 03:15 PM