Is Linux worth running

[SDPlissken]

drag and SleepWalkerX Thanks.. i have the tforce 6100 on the way.i was not really able to find a definitive answer on if the msi-fid worked with linux. cause of that networking chip that is used on it.

 

[ivwshane]

If you have a legit windows install and it does everything you need then why bother? Learning purposes? If so I would rather install it on a virtual machine.

 

[EatSpam]

I use both.

I use Windows XP on my workstations.
I use Windows 2003 on my servers that need Windows (Exchange, Domain Controllers, WSUS, etc.)
I use CentOS Linux as the Host OS for my VMWare machine.
I use Fedora Core for my storage server, spamfilter server, hylafax server, etc.
I use OpenBSD on my firewalls.

I haven't found the need to run Linux on the desktop, but for server use, it has a lot to offer.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: SDPlissken
drag and SleepWalkerX Thanks.. i have the tforce 6100 on the way.i was not really able to find a definitive answer on if the msi-fid worked with linux. cause of that networking chip that is used on it.

Linux hardware support is still questionable enough that a person can't be 100% sure what is supported or not supported until they actually own the hardware and run Linux on it, unfortunately.

One interesting resource that I've found lately is
http://www.keylabs.com/linux/results_servera.html#asus

Apparently Asus is happy to pay this company to do compatability testing with their motherboards and major Linux distributions.

For instance I recently bought a P5LD2-VM for use with Debian Linux. At test result page for it:
http://www.keylabs.com/linux/results/asus_P5LD2-VM.html

It reports there that if I bought Redhat Workstation 4.0 I'd have no problem getting everything to work, except that I'd have to compile drivers for the Nic card.

Personally I found that on Debian Stable lacked support for the nic, but Debian unstable installer did detect it and set it up just fine out of the box (which is great becuase I would of updated to Debian unstable anyways. BTW running 32bit for now) . The onboard video is supported well, but I had to compile my own i810_drv.so for X windows and i915_dri.so for DRI to get both 3d and 2d acceleration for the GMA 950 on the 945g chipset (fairly easy on the now-modular X). Also the sensors-detect script help set up sensors support just fine.

So that's how this sort of thing goes with Linux.

 

[nweaver]

several companies use Keylab's Linux Tested program, and there is also a Suse Yes (like Novell Yes) cert...

as an FYI, none of my posting represent Keylabs/Applabs.

 

[logicmaster2003]

yea Linux is worth running.. but in my case.. I've got 2 computers:
* One is strictly for winXP GAMING which I only turn ON when I want to play Counterstrike, Battlefield1942 and such.
* One is purely for LINUX testing pleasure which is always ON. I use this as my main Internet websurf / chat / online music + ripper (streamtuner) / watching movies.

I also use my winXP GAMING PC as a remote storage for all of my linux "/home" directories.

 

[Brazen]

Originally posted by: logicmaster2003
yea Linux is worth running.. but in my case.. I've got 2 computers:
* One is strictly for winXP GAMING which I only turn ON when I want to play Counterstrike, Battlefield1942 and such.
* One is purely for LINUX testing pleasure which is always ON. I use this as my main Internet websurf / chat / online music + ripper (streamtuner) / watching movies.

I also use my winXP GAMING PC as a remote storage for all of my linux "/home" directories.

that doesn't make any sense 😕 You use the PC that you normally leave off as your storage server? Usually your storage server is the computer that you always leave on.

 

[Grimner]

Two things I have learned about wireless and Linux from two recent Ubuntu installs:
1) Make absolutely sure you give it the correct SSID (upper-case, lower-case... that goes when anything Linux)
2) Support for secure wireless is... under development. WEP might work, WPA is in the works. Start with an open configuration and build your way up.

Dual-boot or not?
Well, I'm moving towards seperate machines - I just find it tidier.

Linux at all?
If you have a working Windows system (they exist, I'm using one right now 🙂 ) and don't want to learn more about computers, then stick to Microsoft and be happy about it.
If you sometimes wonder about how things work and like to read and tinker - plow right ahead - Linux is for you. Just make sure you have a working Internet connection to back you up once you decide to turn of that deceptive GUI and all you are left with is the command line (which is where I freak out - for now 🙂 )

 

[Nothinman]

2) Support for secure wireless is... under development. WEP might work, WPA is in the works. Start with an open configuration and build your way up.

WEP and WPA should both work fine. For WPA you probably need wpa_supplicant, although some drivers like the RaLink ones for Linux implement WPA themselves.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Grimner
2) Support for secure wireless is... under development. WEP might work, WPA is in the works. Start with an open configuration and build your way up.

IPSEC works.

 

[Henny]

Linux is still not ready for "prime time" but it's getting closer.

I run Xandros 3 and it's better then the previous Linux distros I've tried. I could almost use it as my main OS if I wanted to. It's mostly plug and play but some things can still drive you nuts like getting a PCI modem card to work.

There are still to many times you have to go to a terminal window and configure things the old fashioned way. (It reminds me of Win 3.11 where you'd still have to go to DOS to do a number of things.)

I use Xandros on a spare system just for the challenge.

Linux is extremely fussy about what it works with. (like when Win NT first came out). You can't assume peripherals like cameras, printers, scanners will work and none of the manufacturers seem to care about Linux driver support. There is also no such thing as a generic Linux driver. Each distribution is different and this can also drive you nuts.

Good luck playing games, managing your finances or doing taxes on Linux.

I do like Linux's file structure. No registrys to build! Just stick files where they belong and it works. I've also found that Linux has some excellent support forums but they can get extremely technical very fast unless you're an expert on Unix machine language.

 

[jcmuse]

It has its benefits sure, and if i could run every windows app under wine, i'd use it instead of windows, but i can't. Sorry but the alternatives for programs like photoshop 9, Autocad, and adobe premiere are not only usually inferior, but they are just not functional in a professional environment where compatibility is a must. Not only that, but unless you're a linux guru, expect to have problems... lots of them. From hardware compatibility to bugs, they are there. Anyone who denies that is just plain wrong. And yes, windows is FAR from perfect.

 

[Nothinman]

Linux is still not ready for "prime time" but it's getting closer.

Neither is Windows IMO.

You can't assume peripherals like cameras, printers, scanners will work and none of the manufacturers seem to care about Linux driver support.

You can't assume that with Windows either, at least not if you want a product that works well. HP multifunction printers are probably the best example. They may work in Windows but you'll have to install a dozen services and you're pretty much guaranteed that the functionality will be intermitten and HP's crap software will cause problems on your machine. And these days most cameras work fine AFAIK, most of them just show up as regular USB storage devices so you can copy the files off like any other USB drive.

Generally if you get hardware that works well in Linux it'll also work well in Windows and probably better than the cheaper crap that doesn't work in Linux.

There is also no such thing as a generic Linux driver. Each distribution is different and this can also drive you nuts.

Technically not true. They basically all use the same drivers, some distros will go some extra steps and include out of tree drivers like rt2500 but that's pretty rare since it can be a lot of work. It's just that you can't copy binary drivers between kernels because of different compilers, kernel config options, etc. It's only a pain when the manufacturer won't release specs for their hardware so that a GPL'd driver can be written.

Good luck playing games, managing your finances or doing taxes on Linux.

I do all 3 of those things just fine.

 

[scottws]

I've set up three Linux servers now, based on Debian Sarge. Aside from a little bit of learning on the first one, the other two were pretty easy. I'd say I'm very happy that I can use an old PIII HP computer to run three servers. You could never do that with Windows Server 2003 because the shell would take up more RAM than the three Linux servers combined. Setting up and maintaining these three servers has been pretty painless.

My experience with Linux on the desktop is quite different. I feel like I'm always fighting things. Fighting to get some hardware to work. Fighting to get the correct resolution. Fighting to get my mouse buttons to work.

I'd love to ditch Windows XP for Linux at this point, but it's just not feasible or really worth the amount of time I've spent on it at all.

 

[Nothinman]

My experience with Linux on the desktop is quite different. I feel like I'm always fighting things. Fighting to get some hardware to work. Fighting to get the correct resolution. Fighting to get my mouse buttons to work.

I have the same feeling with Windows.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Linux is still not ready for "prime time" but it's getting closer.

Neither is Windows IMO.

You can't assume peripherals like cameras, printers, scanners will work and none of the manufacturers seem to care about Linux driver support.

You can't assume that with Windows either, at least not if you want a product that works well. HP multifunction printers are probably the best example. They may work in Windows but you'll have to install a dozen services and you're pretty much guaranteed that the functionality will be intermitten and HP's crap software will cause problems on your machine. And these days most cameras work fine AFAIK, most of them just show up as regular USB storage devices so you can copy the files off like any other USB drive.

Generally if you get hardware that works well in Linux it'll also work well in Windows and probably better than the cheaper crap that doesn't work in Linux.

There is also no such thing as a generic Linux driver. Each distribution is different and this can also drive you nuts.

Technically not true. They basically all use the same drivers, some distros will go some extra steps and include out of tree drivers like rt2500 but that's pretty rare since it can be a lot of work. It's just that you can't copy binary drivers between kernels because of different compilers, kernel config options, etc. It's only a pain when the manufacturer won't release specs for their hardware so that a GPL'd driver can be written.

Good luck playing games, managing your finances or doing taxes on Linux.

I do all 3 of those things just fine.

My HP6210 installed flawlessly under WinXP. It help's to read the quick start guide.

OK, you can play games with Linux. I think they have their equivalent of Solitare or Minesweeper. However no avid gamer would conside Linux the best OS platform for games and most leading edge game developers are focused on XP because that's where the $'s are.

Last I checked neither Money, Quicken, Turbotax, or Taxcut had Linux versions.

I've had my issues with Windows but XP really is a pretty good product and in my experience everything is compatable and works well.

 

[SleepWalkerX]

You could always run CrossOver Office if you're desperate to have those apps. Most software developers have profit incentive and its harder to make money off open-source software (that's why NMap had to go closed-source..). But even then, a proprietary package for linux is still doable.

*sigh* That's the only obstacle I see for linux in the future..

 

[Nothinman]

My HP6210 installed flawlessly under WinXP. It help's to read the quick start guide.

So? The LaserJet I use at work installed flawlessly under Linux, what does that prove?

OK, you can play games with Linux. I think they have their equivalent of Solitare or Minesweeper. However no avid gamer would conside Linux the best OS platform for games and most leading edge game developers are focused on XP because that's where the $'s are.

You didn't say anything about avid gamers, you said you can't play games which isn't true, infact I was playing ET just last night. Doom3, Q4, UT all run under Linux natively and more run just fine under WINE/Cedega. No, it's not perfect but it's far from as bad as you make it out to be.

Last I checked neither Money, Quicken, Turbotax, or Taxcut had Linux versions.

So? Who says that those products are required to manage your finances or do your taxes?

I've had my issues with Windows but XP really is a pretty good product and in my experience everything is compatable and works well.

I have no doubts that you'll be able to find more compatible software and hardware for Windows, but in most cases the hardware that doesn't work with Linux is the really cheap crap that sucks on any platform. Software's another story because there will be things like Photoshop, Quicken, etc that people will want to use just because they're comfortable with them already but in most cases there are alternatives.

 

[Nothinman]

ost software developers have profit incentive and its harder to make money off open-source software (that's why NMap had to go closed-source..).

Huh? Looks like the source is still available from insecure.org and is still under the GPL.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

ost software developers have profit incentive and its harder to make money off open-source software (that's why NMap had to go closed-source..).

Huh? Looks like the source is still available from insecure.org and is still under the GPL.

I think he means Nessus.

edit: v3 to be exact. v2 and earlier are open as are a number of other security scanners (including at least one based off of nessus).

 

[n0cmonkey]

Is this argument boring to anyone else?

linux can't play games!

yes it can!

but no serious gamer will take it seriously!

show me a game that is supposed to be serious!

yawn

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

ost software developers have profit incentive and its harder to make money off open-source software (that's why NMap had to go closed-source..).

Huh? Looks like the source is still available from insecure.org and is still under the GPL.

Ya, he was probably thinking of Nessus.

One of the major reasons they decided to go closed source was that people were selling embedded security appliance type devices and not releasing improvements to nessus's programs they were using in them. One of the weak points of the current GPLv2 license.

Other reasons was that they were getting lack of attention from open source developers.

It's to bad, but for every 1 things that go this direction you get like 5 that are going open source or are having people create open source alternatives.

It's a tough world. Plenty of companies are making money from open source stuff. Especially for start ups. I expect that 9 out of 10 closed source companies fail when they are starting off, so it's not suprising open source companies face similar challenges.

And don't forget that software is usually very specialized stuff. Most software that is produced, and most software developers do their stuff for 'in house' or for specific contracts. None of that is commercially viable either being closed source or open source, but it's nessicary so people pay for that development. For those sort of developers open source software is a boon. They have a whole bunch of tools and software that's aviable for near-to-no cost and is often quite superior to their more propriatory alternatives, plus they get to access to all that source code.

 

[scottws]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

My experience with Linux on the desktop is quite different. I feel like I'm always fighting things. Fighting to get some hardware to work. Fighting to get the correct resolution. Fighting to get my mouse buttons to work.

I have the same feeling with Windows.

Really? Because when I plugged my MX-510 into my computer, XP detected all of its buttons just fine. Scroll works, middle-click works, thumb buttons are great for forward and back in the browsers.

Linux? Basically it's a two-button mouse.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: scottws

Originally posted by: Nothinman

My experience with Linux on the desktop is quite different. I feel like I'm always fighting things. Fighting to get some hardware to work. Fighting to get the correct resolution. Fighting to get my mouse buttons to work.

I have the same feeling with Windows.

Really? Because when I plugged my MX-510 into my computer, XP detected all of its buttons just fine. Scroll works, middle-click works, thumb buttons are great for forward and back in the browsers.

Linux? Basically it's a two-button mouse.

Are you sure it isn't a proper 3 button mouse?

 

[Nothinman]

Really? Because when I plugged my MX-510 into my computer, XP detected all of its buttons just fine. Scroll works, middle-click works, thumb buttons are great for forward and back in the browsers.

Linux? Basically it's a two-button mouse.

Every mouse I've used in the past few years has 'just worked'. The button mappings might not be what you want them to be right out of the box, but they should work.