Is Koran Burning Protected by Free Speech?

[JohnOfSheffield]

This is how terrorism wins.

So the police is supposed to protect every idiot who does something stupid to piss off people or terrorism (or crime for that matter) wins?

I thought every citisen was supposed to protect themselves and not rely on the police in the US?

Oh, and to the question, it is in the UK and i do believe it is in the US too, that doesn't mean that doing it to incite people is a bright idea.

 

[Amused]

So the police is supposed to protect every idiot who does something stupid to piss off people or terrorism (or crime for that matter) wins?

I thought every citisen was supposed to protect themselves and not rely on the police in the US?

No. You misunderstand. If anyone is afraid to speak their mind due to threats, then terrorism wins. It has nothing to do with how we protect ourselves, but the fear itself.

 

[lothar]

Fail. Flag burning IS protected free speech.



Why don't people learn the facts before posting?

So what about the flag burning amendment that passed the US Senate/House a few years ago?

Quoting Supreme Court(or any other court) rulings is irrelevant.
Precedents are easily overturned. You must not have been paying attention to the people on the Supreme Court lately. 🙄
Why don't YOU learn the facts before posting?

 

[Amused]

So what about the flag burning amendment that passed the US Senate/House a few years ago?

Quoting Supreme Court(or any other court) rulings is irrelevant.
Precedents are easily overturned. You must not have been paying attention to the people on the Supreme Court lately. 🙄
Why don't YOU learn the facts before posting?

Wow.

Irony.

Delicious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Desecration_Amendment

It failed.

They've been trying since 68. Fail every time. It will never pass, never mind be ratified by the fifty states.

And this is moot, as it's obvious no one here is in favor of outlawing it. So the attempt to claim hypocrisy is moot.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

No. You misunderstand. If anyone is afraid to speak their mind due to threats, then terrorism wins. It has nothing to do with how we protect ourselves, but the fear itself.

Ahhh, so if anyone is afraid to burn an American flag at a Nascar race then terrorism wins?

 

[Amused]

Ahhh, so if anyone is afraid to burn an American flag at a Nascar race then terrorism wins?

You're damn skippy.

 

[Bateluer]

I would NEVER be so disrespectful as to burn something meaningful to someone else... but I gotta be honest, these threats make me wanna do it.

Same. Wise man once say, 'I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.'

Kinda makes me want to buy a Quran and burn in for Youtube.

 

[routan]

To be honest, it is the Islamic world's reaction and threats that brings this shit on. Threaten a nation of free people over free speech, no matter how tasteless and stupid it may be, and you'll just incite us to piss you off.

I would NEVER be so disrespectful as to burn something meaningful to someone else... but I gotta be honest, these threats make me wanna do it.

Amused, and AT members, please allow me to elaborate on the value Muslims hold to the Quran. That is not to condone any behavior of Muslims around the world, but to give everyone a different perspective.

The Quran is not just a book to Muslims. It is an utmost sacred text to Muslims. We dont touch it without proper ritual ablution, which includes washing hands and face. The Quran is always kept on the highest shelf. No other book is kept on top of it. Usually we kiss it after recitation. Tens of thousands of Muslims spend years to memorize the entire text, be it in India or in the United States. Words from the Quran adorn our walls.

For Muslims, an act of burning the Quran is sacrilegious. Islamophobes know this, and know fully well that such an act would deeply hurt Muslim sentiments.

Just like Muslims are encouraged to speak out against extemists in our own "camp", I would encourage all fellow Americans to speak out and discourage such an act. This act is DEFINITELY not in the spirit of "free speech", nor does arguing on the basis of "rights" make this a righteous act.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wow.

Irony.

Delicious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Desecration_Amendment

It failed.

They've been trying since 68. Fail every time. It will never pass, never mind be ratified by the fifty states.

And this is moot, as it's obvious no one here is in favor of outlawing it. So the attempt to claim hypocrisy is moot.

You see this stuff when one bogart's the joint.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

So what about the flag burning amendment that passed the US Senate/House a few years ago?

Quoting Supreme Court(or any other court) rulings is irrelevant.
Precedents are easily overturned. You must not have been paying attention to the people on the Supreme Court lately. 🙄
Why don't YOU learn the facts before posting?

As I said, why do people fail to learn about or research what they are posting about before posting? It would save a lot of time and embarrassment to a lot of posters (like yourself).

Amused already pointed out you are wrong, but since you seem so sure of yourself, would you like to link to the relevant amendment that got passed? We will be waiting for this new amendment that no one else knows about.

And LOL at your concept that SCOTUS rulings are irrelevant. Please read up on the SCOTUS and our legal system again, thanks.

 

[Darwin333]

Normally, Koran burning should be protected free speech just like flag burning or bible burning. At least in the USA.

But still, and I am not defending or condemning them, we have special hate crime legislation to outlaw things like burning crosses on lawns. Simply because it so reminds us of the past terrorism of the KKK when those warning were usually followed up by violent deeds.

But in the case of Koran burning, there are practical reasons to perhaps prohibit the practice, simply because we are trying to win hearts and minds in the Muslim world, and we place our own troops at risk when we send the opposite message. And its not the idiots at home burning the Koran who pay the price, its our troops overseas that we place at added risk.

Fighting for our freedoms is what their job is. I would classify the 1st Amendment as a pretty big fucking "freedom" and I would wager that the vast majority of our military has absolutely no problem defending it. In my opinion it would be a slap in their face to restrict the freedom of Americans so that we don't piss off some people they might encounter.

If our leaders are that concerned that our freedoms put our military men and women at risk then they should bring every last one of them home before we ever consider restricting the freedoms of our people.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You're damn skippy.

I'm trying to illustrate a point here, if you do something stupid, no matter if it's your right to do so or not, you will get into trouble. It doesn't take Muslims for that to happen, does it?

 

[Bateluer]

Amused, and AT members, please allow me to elaborate on the value Muslims hold to the Quran. That is not to condone any behavior of Muslims around the world, but to give everyone a different perspective.

The Quran is not just a book to Muslims. It is an utmost sacred text to Muslims. We dont touch it without proper ritual ablution, which includes washing hands and face. The Quran is always kept on the highest shelf. No other book is kept on top of it. Usually we kiss it after recitation. Tens of thousands of Muslims spend years to memorize the entire text, be it in India or in the United States. Words from the Quran adorn our walls.

For Muslims, an act of burning the Quran is sacrilegious. Islamophobes know this, and know fully well that such an act would deeply hurt Muslim sentiments.

Just like Muslims are encouraged to speak out against extemists in our own "camp", I would encourage all fellow Americans to speak out and discourage such an act. This act is DEFINITELY not in the spirit of "free speech", nor does arguing on the basis of "rights" make this a righteous act.

I do discourage the act of burning ANY book, but you have no right to physically attack me or utilize IEDs against me for burning your sacred text. Allah/God/Supreme Deity will judge me for my actions in the after life. Not you.

 

[routan]

I do discourage the act of burning ANY book, but you have no right to physically attack me or utilize IEDs against me for burning your sacred text. Allah/God/Supreme Deity will judge me for my actions in the after life. Not you.

Bateluer, I join hands with you and I discourage and strongly condemn a physical attack on anyone based on burning of the Quran.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just like Muslims are encouraged to speak out against extemists in our own "camp", I would encourage all fellow Americans to speak out and discourage such an act. This act is DEFINITELY not in the spirit of "free speech", nor does arguing on the basis of "rights" make this a righteous act.

I don't see him doing it. I know I wouldn't, but the perception by many Americans is that Muslims are more tolerant of terrorism against us than Americans burning the Quran.

I know it's not as simple a matter as this and I won't participate in this foolishness, but I can understand why it happens.

 

[routan]

I don't see him doing it. I know I wouldn't, but the perception by many Americans is that Muslims are more tolerant of terrorism against us than Americans burning the Quran.

I know it's not as simple a matter as this and I won't participate in this foolishness, but I can understand why it happens.

Hayabusa Rider, I wasnt directing my post specifically at Amused.

Also, please allow me to correct a massive misperception. While 9/11 was the single largest terrorist attack, countless of Muslims have perished in numerous terrorist attacks across the world. Muslims are not tolerant of any form of terrorism.

Unfortunately, acts like burning the Quran would not just hurt the emotions of common Muslim folk, but embolden the terrorists' cause even further - thereby exposing common Muslims to more terrorist attacks.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hayabusa Rider, I wasnt directing my post specifically at Amused.

Also, please allow me to correct a massive misperception. While 9/11 was the single largest terrorist attack, countless of Muslims have perished in numerous terrorist attacks across the world. Muslims are not tolerant of any form of terrorism.

Unfortunately, acts like burning the Quran would not just hurt the emotions of common Muslim folk, but embolden the terrorists' cause even further - thereby exposing common Muslims to more terrorist attacks.

I agree, I just don't know how to address it effectively.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Amused, and AT members, please allow me to elaborate on the value Muslims hold to the Quran. That is not to condone any behavior of Muslims around the world, but to give everyone a different perspective.

The Quran is not just a book to Muslims. It is an utmost sacred text to Muslims. We dont touch it without proper ritual ablution, which includes washing hands and face. The Quran is always kept on the highest shelf. No other book is kept on top of it. Usually we kiss it after recitation. Tens of thousands of Muslims spend years to memorize the entire text, be it in India or in the United States. Words from the Quran adorn our walls.

For Muslims, an act of burning the Quran is sacrilegious. Islamophobes know this, and know fully well that such an act would deeply hurt Muslim sentiments.

Just like Muslims are encouraged to speak out against extemists in our own "camp", I would encourage all fellow Americans to speak out and discourage such an act. This act is DEFINITELY not in the spirit of "free speech", nor does arguing on the basis of "rights" make this a righteous act.

One thing you have to realise is that the value you hold over that book is YOUR value...

It has no relevance to anyone but you and others who think like you.

Truth is, the harder you try to claim that everyone must adhere to your rules, the more people will oppose you by doing what they can to oppose you, like buring the Quaran.

 

[routan]

I agree, I just don't know how to address it effectively.

Hayabusa Rider, my opinion on this subject (and I say opinion with all sincerity) is that let us Americans be civilized. This civilized behavior has set America apart from the majority of the rest of the world. Only with this behavior will we be able to influence an ideological change where crazy people arent indulging in a warped religously guided "war"; instead indulge themselves in education, industry, contribution to the sciences and in social harmony.

 

[Darwin333]

Amused, and AT members, please allow me to elaborate on the value Muslims hold to the Quran. That is not to condone any behavior of Muslims around the world, but to give everyone a different perspective.

The Quran is not just a book to Muslims. It is an utmost sacred text to Muslims. We dont touch it without proper ritual ablution, which includes washing hands and face. The Quran is always kept on the highest shelf. No other book is kept on top of it. Usually we kiss it after recitation. Tens of thousands of Muslims spend years to memorize the entire text, be it in India or in the United States. Words from the Quran adorn our walls.

For Muslims, an act of burning the Quran is sacrilegious. Islamophobes know this, and know fully well that such an act would deeply hurt Muslim sentiments.

Just like Muslims are encouraged to speak out against extemists in our own "camp", I would encourage all fellow Americans to speak out and discourage such an act. This act is DEFINITELY not in the spirit of "free speech", nor does arguing on the basis of "rights" make this a righteous act.

I disagree. Protecting unpopular speech is, imo, the true spirit of "free speech".

 

[routan]

One thing you have to realise is that the value you hold over that book is YOUR value...

It has no relevance to anyone but you and others who think like you.

Truth is, the harder you try to claim that everyone must adhere to your rules, the more people will oppose you by doing what they can to oppose you, like buring the Quaran.

JohnOfSheffield, I wholeheartedly agree with you. My post was to provide a perspective from a Muslim's standpoint. That does not in any way speak for a non-Muslim.

I did however suggest that burning of any religious book is NOT a righteous act, and is primarily an act of an non-religious or anti-Islam extremist/fanatic, and as good Americans, we should speak out against such an act.

 

[bfdd]

Hayabusa Rider, my opinion on this subject (and I say opinion with all sincerity) is that let us Americans be civilized. This civilized behavior has set America apart from the majority of the rest of the world. Only with this behavior will we be able to influence an ideological change where crazy people arent indulging in a warped religously guided "war"; instead indulge themselves in education, industry, contribution to the sciences and in social harmony.

Burning the Quran would fall under civil disobedience. Keyword, civil. Meaning it's a civilized form of disobedience. Like JoS said, YOU hold significance to the book, I don't.

 

[bfdd]

JohnOfSheffield, I wholeheartedly agree with you. My post was to provide a perspective from a Muslim's standpoint. That does not in any way speak for a non-Muslim.

I did however suggest that burning of any religious book is NOT a righteous act, and is primarily an act of an non-religious or anti-Islam extremist/fanatic, and as good Americans, we should speak out against such an act.

Do you feel burning the American flag is just as disrespectful as burning the Quran? You said you're giving us a perspective that they hold the book incredibly dear. Can the flag not hold that same value?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I disagree. Protecting unpopular speech is, imo, the true spirit of "free speech".

I'd say that in todays US (not so much in the UK, but that might rapidly change) burning the Quaran is POPULAR speech and i'm fairly sure that is why it's done.

These people who do it are labeled patriots who dare stand up for their rights.

 

[bfdd]

I'd say that in todays US (not so much in the UK, but that might rapidly change) burning the Quaran is POPULAR speech and i'm fairly sure that is why it's done.

These people who do it are labeled patriots who dare stand up for their rights.

I'm not sure burning the Quran is all that popular in the USA. We've seen like ONE guy burn a couple pages and a threat.