Is it wrong of me to think this?

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: ZOXXO

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Stunt, your figure of 6.8 per capita is in Canadian dollars and includes 30-40 million in the form of a debt moratorium.

Why do you wish to include a suspension in payment of debt in Canada's contribution yet choose to ignore the non cash contributions from the US?

From the page you linked:

The United States has dispatched two C-5 Galaxy strategic airlifters and ten C-130 Hercules tactical airlifters containing disaster supplies, nine P-3C Orion aircraft for search and rescue support, and several teams from the Departments of State and Defense to coordinate additional assistance. They are using Utapao Naval Air Base in Thailand as their regional hub. Additionally, the United States has offered assistance from its troops stationed in Japan. USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier battle group, which was in port in Hong Kong, was dispatched to the coast of Sumatra to provide support to the Indonesian province of Aceh. In addition, a amphibious battlegroup led by USS Bonhomme Richard, scheduled for a port call in Guam, were dispatched to render assistance. All these ships carry a total of 29 helicopters to assist in relief support, and each ship can produce 90,000 gallons of fresh water per day.

Does it not fit your agenda?

Suspension of debt is a cash contribution.
Also it is vague whether the military operations are included in the stated $350million allocated.

Neither of us know...but if you can find that out...that would help.

Canada is not declaring the debt paid but rather allowing them to skip a few payments until they get back on their feet, so to speak. While commendable it's not a direct cash contribution.

Considering all the other cash totals are itemized it seems quite clear to me the equipment and manpower sent to the region is not included in the cash totals for the US.

That is 40billion less than we would have had to spend at how and invest.
But you are right...we are looking at a minor point.

Any idea what the military aid is worth and if it is included in the stated relief?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Why does everyone get into a pissing contest when it comes to Tsunami donations? They aren't really donations either, more like Bush taking $$ out of the General Tax Fund. But anyways, as a country, we aren't obligated to send aid, but we still do. Who cares if country X only donates $350m while Y donates $80m...

Good post...it's true.
Aid is a good thing and we should be happy for all that is contributed.
I think the US is missing out on a great opportunity.
But whateves...life goes on.

 

[illustri]

For all you asses attacking stunt for pointing out that the U.S.'s aid per GDP is lower than other countries, I find it pathetically stupid that you're doing it in a thread where the original post complains that "dem mooslims aint" contributing as much in dollar amount.

The fact that we give much of the humanitarian aid in to the world is noble, but understand that it must be rectified with the fact that we consume most of the resources.


to OP, is it wrong? no, is it stupid? yes.

edit
spelling

 

[ZOXXO]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ZOXXO

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Stunt, your figure of 6.8 per capita is in Canadian dollars and includes 30-40 million in the form of a debt moratorium.

Why do you wish to include a suspension in payment of debt in Canada's contribution yet choose to ignore the non cash contributions from the US?

From the page you linked:

The United States has dispatched two C-5 Galaxy strategic airlifters and ten C-130 Hercules tactical airlifters containing disaster supplies, nine P-3C Orion aircraft for search and rescue support, and several teams from the Departments of State and Defense to coordinate additional assistance. They are using Utapao Naval Air Base in Thailand as their regional hub. Additionally, the United States has offered assistance from its troops stationed in Japan. USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier battle group, which was in port in Hong Kong, was dispatched to the coast of Sumatra to provide support to the Indonesian province of Aceh. In addition, a amphibious battlegroup led by USS Bonhomme Richard, scheduled for a port call in Guam, were dispatched to render assistance. All these ships carry a total of 29 helicopters to assist in relief support, and each ship can produce 90,000 gallons of fresh water per day.

Does it not fit your agenda?

Suspension of debt is a cash contribution.
Also it is vague whether the military operations are included in the stated $350million allocated.

Neither of us know...but if you can find that out...that would help.

Canada is not declaring the debt paid but rather allowing them to skip a few payments until they get back on their feet, so to speak. While commendable it's not a direct cash contribution.

Considering all the other cash totals are itemized it seems quite clear to me the equipment and manpower sent to the region is not included in the cash totals for the US.

That is 40billion less than we would have had to spend at how and invest.
But you are right...we are looking at a minor point.

Any idea what the military aid is worth and if it is included in the stated relief?

Along with the rest of the worlds help it's worth a drink of clean water for the thirsty, a meal for the hungry, a bandage for the wounded, and a clean environment for the infested.

In short it's priceless to those truly in need. May those people find relief no matter the source.

I think the US really is in a "damned if you do, damned if don't" scenario. Hopefully those whom we have helped will appreciate it and those without need can continue in that capacity to denigrate the US in future endeavors.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Along with the rest of the worlds help it's worth a drink of clean water for the thirsty, a meal for the hungry, a bandage for the wounded, and a clean environment for the infested.

In short it's priceless to those truly in need. May those people find relief no matter the source.

I think the US really is in a "damned if you do, damned if don't" scenario. Hopefully those whom we have helped will appreciate it and those without need can continue in that capacity to denigrate the US in future endeavors.

True it is a lose-lose. There are some very liberal minded people here who want insane amounts of aid. Some want none...i'm guessing...from the posts here. There needs to be a fair balance that is looking out for everyone's needs.

"May those people find relief no matter the source."
very true.

It isnt up to the muslims or the americans, but everyone, if we all put a little (or lot) in the pot, a lot can be accomplished.

 

[imported_Techy]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/.../norway.aid/index.html

Norway is winning..why does this seem like a contst between nations??

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Techy
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/.../norway.aid/index.html

Norway is winning..why does this seem like a contst between nations??

thanks for the link.

(CNN) -- Norway has announced plans to raise its pledge for tsunami victims from $16 million to about $180 million -- an 11-fold increase.

The move would make Norway's contribution the single largest per capita pledge of any nation -- by a wide margin.

With a population of a little more than 4.5 million, Norway's pledge would come out to approximately $39.50 per citizen.

Denmark, meanwhile, raised its total pledge to $76 million, which comes out to $14 per person.

The third highest per capita pledge comes from the same region -- Sweden, with $75.5 million, approximately $8.40 per person.

Each of those countries has reported deaths from the tsunamis.

By comparison, Japan's pledge of $500 million -- the largest of any nation -- comes out to $3.93 per person, and the U.S. pledge of $350 million comes out to $1.19 per person.

U.S. officials have noted that the $350 million figure does not include tens of millions of dollars in military aid and millions in private contributions.

The Norwegian Embassy in Washington told CNN the government would ask parliament to approve the addition of 1 billion kroner, approximately $165 million, to the $16 million already allocated.

All parties in parliament currently support the proposal.

U.N. emergency relief coordinator Jan Egeland, the most prominent face in the world-wide appeal for support to the victims, is a Norwegian and former government official.

 

[MattCo]

Stunt, you are unbelievable. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. Why does average dollar per person have to be the indicator??? Just because the US is donating a ton more than every other country you have to rationalize it by dividing that number by the population. Ever hear of the law of diminishing returns? If you e-hate your neighbors to the south for not being as per capita charitible, then so be it, but the truth is we are still donating a huge amount.

Why dont we take the amount donated and divide it by land mass owned.... Canada is now way behind average.

-MC

 

[JetsFanatic]

Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Asbestos suit? Check
Lawn chair? Check
Cold drink? Check
Hot dogs? Check

Okay, all set.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: MattCo
So why don't we offer $500 million dollars in relief, contingent on the fact that no American Troops are killed in the middle east. For every attack by a militiant muslim, we can reduce the amount by $5 million. That way the only people they will have to blame for not getting a huge relief fund would be the militant muslims.

Get them to police their own.

OK, they have thousands of their own people killed, and daily send women and children out as suicide bombers.... And you think any of them even read the papers or watch TV ? That wouldn't help at all.

I'm not trying to be racist, but I can't understand why they act the way they do. And I think the point being made by some in this post has SOME logic attached. Percent of all terrorists that are Muslim ? The highest of any race by far. Inherently that somehow attaches race to the issue. These are facts, but I don't understand why it is so prevelant in the Muslim race to be a terrorist. Am I missing something here ? Do I have my facts wrong ?

 

[Hammer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Stunt
Actually the experts are saying that the aid now is what is going to determine the size of the catastophe.
As there is tons of disease, no food, and no medication...

Giving later is a patchwork job...and we are all going to give monetary support.
Look at the numbers now...they matter.

Giving later is a "patchwork job"? are you nutz? there is nothing wrong with giving money in timely increments.

sometimes it is cheaper to buy an acura and pay minimal maintinence than buying a lemon and trying to make it run.

The amount and timeliness in the aid is paramount.
Unless you want to end up paying more in costs, lives, and suffering...

Listen to the news, listen to the UN task force, listen to the experts.
In the end you will probably pay the most...woopee do.
The rich pay the most taxes in the US as well...The US is the richest nation in the world.

Fall in line with the rest of the countries and notice that $1.6 per person right now is not going to cut it for a superpower.

how much have you donated?

Apparently i have donated 4 times what you have...
I would donate if i wasnt a student with limited resources.

I would if i could...actually it's a good deal. All private donations are being matched by the government.
Plus donations are tax deductable. So you get free donations and the governement doubles it.
I recommend everyone donating...nothing but good can come of it.

so you've donated nothing then? zero. $0

there's nothing worse than a hypocrite.

go kill yourself asshat

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: MattCo
Stunt, you are unbelievable. You are arguing for the sake of arguing. Why does average dollar per person have to be the indicator??? Just because the US is donating a ton more than every other country you have to rationalize it by dividing that number by the population. Ever hear of the law of diminishing returns? If you e-hate your neighbors to the south for not being as per capita charitible, then so be it, but the truth is we are still donating a huge amount.

Why dont we take the amount donated and divide it by land mass owned.... Canada is now way behind average.

-MC

If you say that then the US is far behind the average again...

Donations are not comparable unless on a per person basis.

If Bill gate gives $10,000 to an aid organization, and somone making $50,000 a year donates $10,000...is this right in a global effort?...not really. I am merely pointing out the huge contrasts in funding.

the dollars per person is the almost flawed as well as america's gdp is higher per person than other countries. The US actually gets the benifit of the doubt with this reasoning as it in theory can afford much more per person than say norway or sweden.

norway is donating almost half of what the US is donating and their gdp is 1.6% of yours and has 1.5% of the people.

Is that not sad?...i mean...look at what others are doing and do you think you are in line?...honestly.

 

[Stunt]

Spend $500 per person on a questionable war.
Spend less than $2 per person for one of the biggest natural disasters the world has seen.

No wonder the UN is begging for money. They need more...i hope more comes available.
This is the first time i've seen the rest of the world make up for the US's deficiencies.
Ah well.

Could have made this into a good opportunity for the US. Make up for lost ground...

 

[Pantoot]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Spend $500 per person on a questionable war.
Spend less than $2 per person for one of the biggest natural disasters the world has seen.

No wonder the UN is begging for money. They need more...i hope more comes available.
This is the first time i've seen the rest of the world make up for the US's deficiencies.
Ah well.

Could have made this into a good opportunity for the US. Make up for lost ground...

How much do you think it costs to operate a carrier group for just one day? Perhaps that should be figured into the 350 million dollar figure.

That said, perhaps you should make a donation yourself, it takes a big man to call out a nation for not donating enough when he hasn't donated a looney. I do like how you state that 'the rest of the world made up for the US's deficiencies.'
When did this become the US's responsibility?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Pantoot

Originally posted by: Stunt
Spend $500 per person on a questionable war.
Spend less than $2 per person for one of the biggest natural disasters the world has seen.

No wonder the UN is begging for money. They need more...i hope more comes available.
This is the first time i've seen the rest of the world make up for the US's deficiencies.
Ah well.

Could have made this into a good opportunity for the US. Make up for lost ground...

How much do you think it costs to operate a carrier group for just one day? Perhaps that should be figured into the 350 million dollar figure.

That said, perhaps you should make a donation yourself, it takes a big man to call out a nation for not donating enough when he hasn't donated a looney. I do like how you state that 'the rest of the world made up for the US's deficiencies.'
When did this become the US's responsibility?

Without this mission they would still be operational and doing training missions.
These are not costing all that much more.

But i will conceed that few nations in the world have this capability and is helping the aid get to the source.

i'm sure Norway's funding could easily cover additional operating expenses on a carrier fleet many times over.

These countries need food, water, shelter, clothing, and drugs. The transport is a vital step...but is not the primary item the UN is asking for at the moment.

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Pantoot

Originally posted by: Stunt
Spend $500 per person on a questionable war.
Spend less than $2 per person for one of the biggest natural disasters the world has seen.

No wonder the UN is begging for money. They need more...i hope more comes available.
This is the first time i've seen the rest of the world make up for the US's deficiencies.
Ah well.

Could have made this into a good opportunity for the US. Make up for lost ground...

How much do you think it costs to operate a carrier group for just one day? Perhaps that should be figured into the 350 million dollar figure.

That said, perhaps you should make a donation yourself, it takes a big man to call out a nation for not donating enough when he hasn't donated a looney. I do like how you state that 'the rest of the world made up for the US's deficiencies.'
When did this become the US's responsibility?

Without this mission they would still be operational and doing training missions.
These are not costing all that much more.

But i will conceed that few nations in the world have this capability and is helping the aid get to the source.

i'm sure Norway's funding could easily cover additional operating expenses on a carrier fleet many times over.

These countries need food, water, shelter, clothing, and drugs. The transport is a vital step...but is not the primary item the UN is asking for at the moment.

Well, nice to see you haven't donated a damn thing, next time before you throw stones, look inside your own house first.

And... Text The food, water, and supplies are being brought into the nation.

And you still haven't addressed why this has to be America's undertaking? Is it because we're the biggest and wealthiest? Where was the foreign aid for Florida with their numerous hurricanes?

 

[OutHouse]

they told Isreael not send their doctors and medics to help. go figure.

Im not giving a damn thing. and the US should cut back on its donations. Fricken Kuait is only giving 10 mil and that was bumped from 2 mil because people started to gripe. only 10 mil??? please. And how do i know the money i give is even going to make it there to help?

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: Citrix
they told Isreael not send their doctors and medics to help. go figure.

Im not giving a damn thing. and the US should cut back on its donations. Fricken Kuait is only giving 10 mil and that was bumped from 2 mil because people started to gripe. only 10 mil??? please. And how do i know the money i give is even going to make it there to help?

That would make us 'un-cool' and 'stingy' to the world 'community' and we wouldn't want that.

 

[g8wayrebel]

Who cares whether or not the other countries contribute. We do it because it is the humane thing to do, and because we can.We aren't doing it for credit and wouldn't get credit if we did. You can't consider politics when dealing with the idealogically inept.

 

[moshquerade]

let this thread die

 

[mwtgg]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
let this thread die

Naaaah!

 

[complacent]

FVCK 'EM! Since when do we owe those anti-American a$$holes a fvcking dime? There was a HUGE earthquake and 70 Minutes later those places were hit. They should have known better. If the damn mice, rabbits, and elephants knew enough to go to high ground, then all the hagi's there should've known too. I delpore anyone who donates to those idiots.

America doesn't owe them anything. Everyone, save your money. Where were all the donations from THEM when 9/11 happened? Do you think they would ever donate any money if something bad happened here? Nope. Habib would be on a boat over here to open up a cigar shop for cheap.

 

[shuan24]

Originally posted by: Markfw900

Originally posted by: MattCo
So why don't we offer $500 million dollars in relief, contingent on the fact that no American Troops are killed in the middle east. For every attack by a militiant muslim, we can reduce the amount by $5 million. That way the only people they will have to blame for not getting a huge relief fund would be the militant muslims.

Get them to police their own.

OK, they have thousands of their own people killed, and daily send women and children out as suicide bombers.... And you think any of them even read the papers or watch TV ? That wouldn't help at all.

I'm not trying to be racist, but I can't understand why they act the way they do. And I think the point being made by some in this post has SOME logic attached. Percent of all terrorists that are Muslim ? The highest of any race by far. Inherently that somehow attaches race to the issue. These are facts, but I don't understand why it is so prevelant in the Muslim race to be a terrorist. Am I missing something here ? Do I have my facts wrong ?

You definitely have your facts wrong. Muslim is not a race. It is a religion. Its like saying, the Catholic race are terrorists! Not only is that wrong, its also plain ignorant.

 

[Attrox]

Stunt, why dont' you take the donation money....

and shove it up your @$$

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: scauffiel

Originally posted by: moshquerade
OP has a point whether you guys want to admit it or not.

Agreed.

I feel as bad as the next person about this, but I'd like to see it pointed out to me by ANY of my servants, congress men and women, where, just where in the Constitution is given the power to give MY money to charity. You want to donate? Fine, knock yourself out. You want to give your time to help out? Get on a plane. How about we take that $350mil and secure our borders? Keep bad guys from bringing CBR weapons across the border. How about we take that $350mil and make sure our boys have body armor and armored fvcking Humvees? Keep more of them alive to live productive, happy lives. That IS the job of those Congress men and women, to guard this country and to ensure the protection of it's citizens.

We're going to end up spending so much money on this that it won't be mildly amusing - I bet it tops $1Bil before it's all over - and yeah, I include the money that it costs to keep our military in the area, that sh!t ain't free ya know.

Call me goofy, but I don't recall all of the aid pouring in from these countries during the hurricane horror show across Florida this past summer... How many BILLIONS did THAT cost? How many people from these countries jumped online to hit amazon.com to donate their hard earned cash to the United States?

Man, it gets old always being WRONG as an American. No matter if I'm giving money or giving blood, I'm wrong - didn't give enough, didn't give it fast enough, didn't fly my fvcking flags at half mast, didnt' didn't didn't.... Please. They can all pack sand.

Next time I'll try not to sugar coat it.

Steve

Woah... now that's some brutal honesty... and I like it.