Is it wrong for transgenders to compete in sports that are gender specific?

[Sonikku]

Who's more of a man? Chaz Bono?

Or Justin Bieber?

 

[Geosurface]

If they've lost their testicals (or worse take anti-androgens that complete stop testosterone) and take female hormones, then they've lost most of the advantage of being male.

Not if they did a lot of their body formation already I think.

Btw sophitia, Chaz by a wide margin.

 

[Bateluer]

Define gender in the case of sporting events by chromosomes. xx, you're female and compete as a female. xy, you're male and compete as a male. Though, I suppose it'll get messy when you factor in xxy, xyy, and other oops variations.

If you simply identify as female, but were born with straight xy chromosomes, you'll have to suck it up and take it up with the Powers in the afterlife.

 

[who?]

A womans gonads produce less testosterone than a mans but she has some in her system. A woman who has higher levels than the average woman may have more than a low T male.A male to female who has had her gonads removed doesn't have any in her system.

 

[edro]

They really only need to be concerned with males turning female and competing as female.
Females who switch to male would never be a problem. I can't see anyone being mad about that.

If you were male through most of your life, your body has grown to a different level than other females, unnaturally... same as steroid use. Your bone structure would be larger, etc.

I can guarantee a 30yo male who has taken female hormones for the last 2 years, would be much stronger than a 30yo female who has been female her entire life.

Again, leave it up to the individual sport agencies, but this case is pretty easy to decide. He was male most of his life and only recently switched... so he should be banned from competing against women. (if the league sees fit)

 

[sourceninja]

Do you have a Y chromosome? Then your male. Deal with it. You may not like it, you may not want it, you may even hope you are a woman. Sadly as long as you have that Y chromosome you are a male.

 

[nehalem256]

Sports are segregated based on SEX not gender.

Segregating sports based off gender identity is no more sensible than segregating them based on race.

 

[Rakehellion]

Who's more of a man? Chaz Bono?

Or Justin Bieber?

And here comes the homophobia.

Sports are segregated based on SEX not gender.

Segregating sports based off gender identity is no more sensible than segregating them based on race.

They are segregated by race. Haven't you seen the NFL?

Fact is, men have more muscle than women and consistently perform better at competitive sports. If they allowed MTFs to play in the same leagues, it would get to the point where you have to be a tranny to win. In the same way that performance-enhancing drugs are banned.

 

[waggy]

They really only need to be concerned with males turning female and competing as female.
Females who switch to male would never be a problem. I can't see anyone being mad about that.

If you were male through most of your life, your body has grown to a different level than other females, unnaturally... same as steroid use. Your bone structure would be larger, etc.

I can guarantee a 30yo male who has taken female hormones for the last 2 years, would be much stronger than a 30yo female who has been female her entire life.

Again, leave it up to the individual sport agencies, but this case is pretty easy to decide. He was male most of his life and only recently switched... so he should be banned from competing against women. (if the league sees fit)

I can see in many sports it being a factor.

Wrestling/boxing/football are some i would think going from male to female would give you a huge advantage.

Growing up in those sports you are used to going against guys. in wrestling the body gets used to another guys power, density and strength. muscle memory is going to be huge. So then to have the Male go to female even with meds the muscle memory and phsych is going to be used to going against males.

same with boxing and football (though i don't see football ever happening heh).

 

[JM Aggie08]

Hey guys, we're also going to let dwarves participate in Little League.

 

[crashtestdummy]

There was another thread on this over in the discussion club, and I'll more or less repeat what I said there.

While it is true that there may be some advantage going male->female over other women in terms of skeletal structure (a person won't shrink and their hips won't turn after gender reassignment), it's less of an advantage in terms of musculature. Once the person has been on hormone therapy, she will atrophy until her her muscle profile matches other women's.

I see no problem with allowing trans women to compete in women's sports, as long as the person in question has been undergoing hormone therapy for a while and continues to do so.

Also, the concern that someone would change genders just to become a star athlete seems incredibly cynical and disingenuous.

 

[phucheneh]

No one's cutting off their legs to be a track star, either. Doesn't mean it's not possible to have an advantage from carbon fiber spring-loaded limbs.

Until you shoot your girlfriend, at least.

 

[Rakehellion]

Once the person has been on hormone therapy, she will atrophy until her her muscle profile matches other women's.

But not everyone has the same hormones. A MTF reducing her hormone load is functionally equivalent to a man taking steroid injections, yet somehow more acceptable?

Or what if you're born a hermaphrodite? Who decides what sport you can play in?

 

[JM Aggie08]

But not everyone has the same hormones. A MTF reducing her hormone load is functionally equivalent to a man taking steroid injections, yet somehow more acceptable?

Or what if you're born a hermaphrodite? Who decides what sport you can play in?

It's pretty obvious in most cases as to which gender they favor.

 

[djnsmith7]

To answer your question, yes, it's wrong for a transgender to participate in the opposite gender's sport, as it creates an obvious unfair advantage.

 

[crashtestdummy]

But not everyone has the same hormones. A MTF reducing her hormone load is functionally equivalent to a man taking steroid injections, yet somehow more acceptable?

Or what if you're born a hermaphrodite? Who decides what sport you can play in?

Where do you get this from? You're right that there is a significant amount of variance in the androgen levels for women, but since you're controlling it in the case of a trans woman, why not set that level at the median for all women, and ask that the athlete stay below that level? It doesn't seem particularly difficult, and fits right in with the routine drug testing.

 

[Dumac]

Meet Scarlett, transgender SC2 pro.

I don't believe shes had gender reassignment surgery.

Scarlett started to play StarCraft II in April 2011. She made her first steps in the competitive scene by participating in an online female-only tournament, the NESL Iron Lady, becoming champion of those cups twice in a row in autumn of 2011.

 

[PottedMeat]

Also, the concern that someone would change genders just to become a star athlete seems incredibly cynical and disingenuous.

:awe:

Hail, hail, Robonia - a land I didn't make up.

 

[Rakehellion]

Where do you get this from? You're right that there is a significant amount of variance in the androgen levels for women, but since you're controlling it in the case of a trans woman, why not set that level at the median for all women, and ask that the athlete stay below that level? It doesn't seem particularly difficult, and fits right in with the routine drug testing.

So a woman can take a median level of hormones. Does that mean an athlete can take just a little steroids?

 

[a123456]

There was another thread on this over in the discussion club, and I'll more or less repeat what I said there.

While it is true that there may be some advantage going male->female over other women in terms of skeletal structure (a person won't shrink and their hips won't turn after gender reassignment), it's less of an advantage in terms of musculature. Once the person has been on hormone therapy, she will atrophy until her her muscle profile matches other women's.

I see no problem with allowing trans women to compete in women's sports, as long as the person in question has been undergoing hormone therapy for a while and continues to do so.

Also, the concern that someone would change genders just to become a star athlete seems incredibly cynical and disingenuous.

I don't have the source anymore but this is pretty much true and what the researchers concluded back when people were wondering over that trans long distance runner.

Basically, testosterone is directly related to muscle mass and you need it constantly. Normal women produce a smaller amount from the ovaries.

If a M2F gets the gonads cut off so they don't produce any at all, they end up being even weaker than a regular woman on average because they'll lose all that muscle from before but it's a process and takes ~2 years to happen.

They do end up with bigger bones on average but less muscle if they have the surgery so they would kind of be terrible at sports that require quickness but have a slight advantage in activities that require mass. So, they'd kind of be like a lumbering and weakened ox. They're taking estrogen shots or whatever so they'd have even less testosterone than a normal woman because they lack the smaller amount from the ovaries.

It's why the IAAF will allow trans to compete but they have to be post-op (i.e. absolutely zero testosterone production in the body) and they have to sit for a few years to even out their muscle mass. Then, they're allow to compete. Of course, then they generally are terrible at sports at the highest level so it becomes mostly a non-issue.