Is it wrong for a Christian to believe in some parts of evolution?

[mithrandir2001]

To answer the thread question:

It's wrong not being able to think for yourself. If you believe in some parts of evolution, that's your decision and your decision alone.

 

[khc200]

i think they need some daily affirmation or something you know?

 

[AndyJay]

<< Hey, so you guys believe that dinosaurs never existed? Yes? >>



Actually there's some stuff in the Bible (book of Job, somewhere in chapter 40 and/or 41, I can't remember offhand) that a lot of people take as a description of dinosaurs. There was some website I looked at long ago with all kinds of passages from the Bible which talk about rather scientific things, such as the law of conservation of mass, roundness of the earth (from a book written looooong before Columbus or anything like that), global wind patterns, and some more. If only I could remember where this site was.

I can't find the site, but I found a list of some of the passages:

- Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
- Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
- Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
- Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
- Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
- Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
- Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
- Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
- Gravitational field (Job 26:7)

For those that don't have an actual printed Bible or are too lazy to pick it up go to http://www.blueletterbible.com and read these passages.

 

[Aihyah]

i just started reading this thread, but this was too funny The annoying thing is most people don't really know what evolution is about, just just judge it through popular culture references etc.

So, if a parent breaks their leg some time during their life, has kids, and the kids all break their leg some time in their life, and so on and so forth, eventually the children will be born with broken legs?

of course not, this was one o fthe original theories that got booted Its like saying stretching yourself will give you taller children. The only way your kids would have broken legs would be if genes for low bone density were advantageous and selected for over many generations Eventually u would have a guy that could break in the womb

 

[Optimus]

<< so if not an escape for life, what do you call it? >>



I call it a meaning. A reason. An explanation...

Why do we do anything that is not personally advantegous? Why do we love ideals, why would we ever sacrafice ourselves? Why would we seek meaning? Is everything we do simply chemical reactions? Do we have any control then, if these reactions cause each other - how can we be in any control over what we are and what we do? What was before the Big Bang? Do I cease to exist at death? Etc...

I'm not asking for resonses to those questions, I'm saying that those are the questions I find answers to in my faith...

This is not an escape... I follow science, evolution theory... I work in software development, I watch all the latest moveis, play hockey and video games... I'm not perfect, but neither do I preach to those who don't want me to.

I live here, now. Religion is a part of my full life.

 

[zimu]

they are quite conflicting beliefs... ask your preacher or something

 

[yellowperil]

Here's why I think Christianity and evolution are incompatible:

1) Christians believe that God created everything on earth perfectly. Natural selection says organisms with traits more favorable to their environment have higher survival rates and thus pass on their genes into the pool. If everything was created perfectly, wouldn't all organisms be optimally suited to their environment? Christians say, &quot;well, sin entered into the world and messed everything up&quot;. In a previous thread regarding whether God created sin, it was argued by some Christians that evil (sin) is not something in itself but rather defined as the absence of good. So 'good' leaves the world, but that should still leave animals that are more highly adaptive than they are today. Natural selection means a progression over time, not a regression.

2) From natural selection it is *entirely* possible that humans evolved from monkeys. You can't accept the fact of natural selection and deny that possibility. Unfortunately, Christians who are supposed to have true faith are not 'allowed' to believe in this possibility.

3) From a dogmatic standpoint, Darwinism has been rejected by Christianity for years. The fact that parts of his theory are now being accepted suggests a 'design your own religion' phenomenon, where people mix and match beliefs not based on a tradition but one that causes the least amount of incompatibilities (sort of like building a computer with highly compatible parts).

 

[glen]

<< they are quite conflicting beliefs... ask your preacher or something >>


Depends upon the denomination.
For example, Lutherin and Episcopalian priests almost exclusively believe in evolution.

 

[sandorski]

Yellowperil: On the whole, yes I would agree that Christians believe in Creation. However, to be a Christian, no such requirement for believing in Creation is necessary. This is why I say that believing in Creation is an inane/moot issue in regards to Christians. It is the same(or increasingly looking like it) as whenit was suggested that the Earth was round rather than flat. Christians at that time were up in arms about it. Time proved them wrong and undermined their credibility.

Fundamentalists(not accusing anyone) would be better off if they stuck to the fundamentals. Unfortunetly, the &quot;need&quot; for acceptance seems to drive even them into no-win scenarios.

There is indeed a fine line between being righteous and self-righteous, between being acceptable and unacceptable, between being a Christian or Phariscee.

 

[glen]

<< yes I would agree that Christians believe in Creation >>


You maybe right, and I don't know of any survey, but I would guess otherwise, that most Christians believe in Evolution.
This is just from my experience in a
Episcopal elementry school,
Methodist high school, and
Methodist college.

In fact, I never met anyone who did not believe in evolution until I was in college.[

 

[Aihyah]

1) Christians believe that God created everything on earth perfectly. Natural selection says organisms with traits more favorable to their environment have higher survival rates and thus pass on their genes into the pool. If everything was created perfectly, wouldn't all organisms be optimally suited to their environment? Christians say, &quot;well, sin entered into the world and messed everything up&quot;. In a previous thread regarding whether God created sin, it was argued by some Christians that evil (sin) is not something in itself but rather defined as the absence of good. So 'good' leaves the world, but that should still leave animals that are more highly adaptive than they are today. Natural selection means a progression over time, not a regression.

hm perfectly? well a perfect human could probably be programmed not to do evil etc. like adam not doing things he was told not and yup, with perfect creation we wouldn't be suseptable to &quot;natural&quot; curses like cancer


2) From natural selection it is *entirely* possible that humans evolved from monkeys. You can't accept the fact of natural selection and deny that possibility. Unfortunately, Christians who are supposed to have true faith are not 'allowed' to believe in this possibility.


slightly flawed. monkeys and humans had a common ancestor. we did not evolve from monkeys.


3) From a dogmatic standpoint, Darwinism has been rejected by Christianity for years. The fact that parts of his theory are now being accepted suggests a 'design your own religion' phenomenon, where people mix and match beliefs not based on a tradition but one that causes the least amount of incompatibilities (sort of like building a computer with highly compatible parts).

yup, same with flat world etc....eventually religion has to evolve or look foolish.

 

[PCResources]

<< God is the greatest scientist that there ever was......he created heaven, earth, time, space and the entire universe. Guess you gotta to have faith! >>



Proof please.

Patrick

 

[PCResources]

<< Start with Truth....then your science will benefit your study of the universe. >>



What is the truth, that god created Adam, then ripped out his rib to create Eve and then Eve ate an apple that a snake told her to eat (did god create the snake?) and so on?

Sounds like a pretty whacked story to me... i could make up a better one, if only i was born in the right century, people would believe in it too..

Patrick

 

[PCResources]

<< Oops, soory, I spoiled your little proof that Christians are all idiots, didn't I? >>



Optimus, you are the exception that proves the rule... You are one of the very few who are willing to accept that there might be more to it than what the bible tells us...

Patrick

 

[Aihyah]

heh gotta love starting with the truth why bother with science then

 

[PCResources]

You know what i call the meaning of life? FUN and LOVE...

I am not trying too hard to be a good guy, i just want to have FUN, i just want to have PLEASURE, because i am sure of one thing, once this life ends, it is over...

I will not hit you if you do not hit me first, i will not do anything to you except question your opinions and beliefs, many people hate me for doing that, but that only tells me one thing, they are insecure...

Well, i am not insecure, you might think that i am ignorant because i refuse to believe what you believe, but i could say the same thing about you...

I believe that i came from somewhere, where i do not know (do you know where you were before you were born) and i do believe that i will go somewhere when i die (you do NOT know where, you BELIEVE something, that is different)... For me, i just hope this happy/sorry trip ends when i am happy... That is all i want..

Patrick

 

[Aihyah]

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
Philosophy. The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
Psychology. The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

 

[PCResources]

<< hm perfectly? well a perfect human could probably be programmed not to do evil etc. like adam not doing things he was told not >>



Hey, my son Johan is perfect and he still does things he is told not to do... but he is still perfect to me, to him, i am god... no matter what you say, he looks up to me and he learns from me... Now, i am an ateist, but i have told him to evaluate everything and that nobody knows for sure...

He is now ten years old, his grandmother (my mother) died recently, he really had a special bond to her, he wonder what happened to her, i told him that i really cannot answer this, he was stunned, i have always been able to answer his questions, but to this question i told him that he has to choose what he wants to believe in, eternal rest, eternal life or rebirth... He thought that she seemed to be resting, so that was his choice..

Your belief is your, no one can take that away from you, but my belief is just as important to me as your belief is to you, i just hate the thought of eternal life, i just want to go around once, that is enough for me, when i die, i just want to be dead...

My problem arises when people are trying to justify their actions in the name of God, both historically (the crusades and several stories in the bible), that makes religion dangerous.. And when people try to tell me that i must be wrong, well, prove it, i will discuss it, but if you insist i will tell you to shut up...

Patrick