Is it true that P4 775 Prescott CPU's run so hot they require an intake fan near the CPU to stay cool?!! (BTX-standard)

[Audiophile1980]

theres socket 478(the original pentium 4 platform)

Wrong. Socket 423 was the first P4 platform. Socket 478 was the second.

Anyway, Prescots run too hot. Here we can see the maximum thermal power of the top end prescot at:
119.0A * 1.27V = 151.13W 3.6 GHz (PRB 1)
That's the max thermal power, not the BS TDP that Intel uses. AMD uses the MTP aswell so these numbers are directly comparable. A top end hammer is pegged at 89watts although that's where AMD limits them. They likely don't go that high.
So you're comparing 90watts to 151watts. That's a HUGE difference.

There are other things to consider too. The prescot does NOT support the NX bit which is hardware support against buffer over-run. It's like buying a car without airbags right before all cars come with airbags.

Not a wise move. It'll also never run windows 64 where the hammer will. This has been shown to provide a 5-7% boost in 32bit apps and a signifigantly larger boost to 64bit apps, especially those that most benefit from that architecture. True, there are some 64bit NX bit prescots coming but that doesn't help you much today and the thermals will be similarly insane.

Honesly, buying a P4 of any flavour now is not a wise move.

 

[LTC8K6]

I recommend disregarding most of the above post.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Also, is it so that with 775 your CD/DVD-ROM drive needs to be SATA (why?)?

No. It's not so. They generally have at least one IDE controller.
Unless you want to share that single channel with a HDD, you're to need a SATA hard drive though.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
I recommend disregarding most of the above post.

Why? It's completely accurate and true. Care to point out a reason why he might want to do that?

 

[LTC8K6]

Much of it is wrong. For instance, while it's true that Intel doesn't support NX, they do have an equivalent in the latest S775 Prescotts, and Prescotts are not difficult to cool at all.

Both 64bits and NX are of dubious value for the likely life of any system bought today.

Nocona, the 64bit Prescott.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Much of it is wrong. For instance, while it's true that Intel doesn't support NX, they do have an equivalent in the latest S775 Prescotts, and Prescotts are not difficult to cool at all.

Both 64bits and NX are of dubious value for the likely life of any system bought today.

Nocona, the 64bit Prescott.

Ah, yes you mean the one that has only made it to Xeon varieties that he can't buy and which will only make it to S775 which is a poor value?

Yes.

The NX bit is supported with XP SP2 and is of immediate use. If XP64 takes anohter year, and he has this computer for 2 years, then 64bit support is most definitely valuable.

As the numbers show, Prescots are NOT easy to cool. They put out up to 150Watts which is far more than any other processor. They require a large copper cored heatsink with a not-too-quiet fan and LOTS of case throughput. The boards that support prescot require an extra phase of voltage regulation just to support their massive power draw. Where do you think all that power is going? It's not converted to light of kinetic energy. It becomes heat. And that goes into your case and your other components.

With the competition being what it is, it's simply not the best choice.

 

[LTC8K6]

Hopefully, most folks here will recognize an AMD fanboy and take your advice with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think both companies make excellent chips with no need for any BS about either of them.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Okay....nevermind it's the same sentiment that the media at large is echoing. Nevermind that they're legit facts and that I'm actually running Intel hardware myself.
I find that the first person to cry FANBOI is usually one himself.
Kind of like when someone farts.

 

[LTC8K6]

Perhaps if AMD had a marketing department we could all enjoy lower prices for whatever chip we chose to buy.

Note that I have never posted anything bad about AMD.

I try to counter BS from both sides whenever I feel it's being shoveled.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: shady06
will we ever see a p4 thread without someone sayiing something stupid like "the A64 blows the P4 away" ????

Facts are facts. *Shrug*

 

[Sahakiel]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: shady06
will we ever see a p4 thread without someone sayiing something stupid like "the A64 blows the P4 away" ????

Facts are facts. *Shrug*

When you can design the 8086 from the ground up, then you can argue facts. Until then, it's nothing more than an ignorant consumer regurgitating numbers picked up somewhere. Some consumers just sound better.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Hopefully, most folks here will recognize an AMD fanboy and take your advice with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think both companies make excellent chips with no need for any BS about either of them.

Don't worry, no one pays attention to the 10 post wonders.

 

[LTC8K6]

erm, 3.06/533/HT, and all 800 MHz Northwoods had HT, as far as I can remember.

Yes, you are correct. I told you I had left something out!

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Much of it is wrong. For instance, while it's true that Intel doesn't support NX, they do have an equivalent in the latest S775 Prescotts, and Prescotts are not difficult to cool at all.

Both 64bits and NX are of dubious value for the likely life of any system bought today.

Nocona, the 64bit Prescott.

Ah, yes you mean the one that has only made it to Xeon varieties that he can't buy and which will only make it to S775 which is a poor value?

Yes.

The NX bit is supported with XP SP2 and is of immediate use. If XP64 takes anohter year, and he has this computer for 2 years, then 64bit support is most definitely valuable.

As the numbers show, Prescots are NOT easy to cool. They put out up to 150Watts which is far more than any other processor. They require a large copper cored heatsink with a not-too-quiet fan and LOTS of case throughput. The boards that support prescot require an extra phase of voltage regulation just to support their massive power draw. Where do you think all that power is going? It's not converted to light of kinetic energy. It becomes heat. And that goes into your case and your other components.

With the competition being what it is, it's simply not the best choice.

Well I'll chime in here, cause I have 80 something posts which makes me 8 times more reliable than Audio but only ~%7 as reliable as LTC8K6. (Plus I've got a 3.2E skt 478 comming from newegg )

Your both right!

Except the point your missing Audiophile1980 , and that LTC8K6 tried to point out is that NX bit and 64 bit are only minor improvements and not something that will be sorely missed over the life of the system for most folks. If the OP is like most people he's going to load WinXP and use it for the next several years and then upgrade his system. At that point after the bugs are worked out with 64bit longhorn it will be worth it.

I mean both the P4 Prescott and A64 are blazingly fast and outside of high end gaming, (which is more dependent on GPU than CPU) and beta testing 64 apps both CPUs are good. Besides when was the last time you had a buffer overflow?

The A64 is the better choice for the same price but that doesn't make the Prescott an awful one regardless of what somefolks around here think.

[Edit: added last 2 paras]

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Hopefully, most folks here will recognize an AMD fanboy and take your advice with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think both companies make excellent chips with no need for any BS about either of them.

Don't worry, no one pays attention to the 10 post wonders.

Yes because post count on some misc forum is a surefire indicator of knowledge. What a bunch of ignorant Cocks.

 

[Sahakiel]

Originally posted by: Audiophile1980

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Hopefully, most folks here will recognize an AMD fanboy and take your advice with a grain of salt.

Personally, I think both companies make excellent chips with no need for any BS about either of them.

Don't worry, no one pays attention to the 10 post wonders.

Yes because post count on some misc forum is a surefire indicator of knowledge. What a bunch of ignorant Cocks.

Funny you should mention ignorance. Swing and a miss.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Yet amazingly no one has come up with a refute for anything I've said. They're all valid facts. The best you can do is ad-homs and comments about post count. Bravo! You win the fanboi award!

 

[LTC8K6]

What you said was self-refuting.

BTW, Prescotts still aren't too hot.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
BTW, Prescotts still aren't too hot.

That probably depends on who you ask and what type of case they have... The guys at nvnews don't seem to agree with you. They had a bit of temperature trouble with their Prescott PCIe test rig until they changed to a different case.

http://www.nvnews.net/previews...ce_6600_gt/index.shtml

Edit: to answer the OP's original question (taken from the nvnews review):

Unfortunately, the time I spent testing the GeForce 6600 GT was brief due to the instability that was caused by the excessive heat being generated by the CPU. With only a few days before the preview was scheduled to be published, I began looking into cooling solutions and soon discovered that Intel recommends a thermanlly advantaged chassis for 90nm based Pentium 4 processors.

 

[LTC8K6]

Nitromullet, that was really just a wise crack at audiophile1980's constant harping about hot Prescotts.

I am well aware that they are hotter than Northwoods.

Many posters here have had no troubles though, even when overclocking on air.

 

[Audiophile1980]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Nitromullet, that was really just a wise crack at audiophile1980's constant harping about hot Prescotts.

I am well aware that they are hotter than Northwoods.

Many posters here have had no troubles though, even when overclocking on air.

First of all, I'm not harping. I made a single statement of fact and a lot of people decided to ad-hom attack it. Those people posting to this enthusiast board are *gasp* enthusiasts and thus probably have enthusiast cases with decent cooling. Just try running that 3.6e in a beige mom&pop shop case that everyone else has (and maybe the OP.)
There's no arguing it. That chip has a MTP of 150Watts. That's HUGE and 50% 50% more than northwoods. These chips take so much power and produce so much heat that not all 800fsb boards will run them but instead you are required to have that extra regulation circuitry on the board to deal with its massive demands.

When you say they are *too* hot, well that's in the eyes of the beyolder.

But that's not what I said. I said they're hotter than the competition which is
a) Hammers
b) Northwoods
There's NO arguing the fact that these chips are HOTTER and with a performance delta of -5% to +5%.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yep, they're so hot that everyone is having trouble with cooling them. No one can even get them to run without clock-throttling unless they use water cooling. The stock heat sink and fan are totally useless.

So many people are having trouble that Intel can't even sell the chips anymore. In fact, people are sending them back because a standard heatsink won't keep a Prescott cool enough to run for more than 10 minutes.

There is even a huge class action lawsuit because no one can use the Prescott that they paid for without buying a hugely expensive cooling rig for it.

Dell absolutely refuses to even touch one of these flamethrowing Prescotts, so don't even try to order a Dell with one.

Laptops can actually catch fire if you run them for more than 15 minutes at a stretch.

Prescotts consume so much power that mobo mfr's can't even build a mobo that can stand the power draw for more than a few days. Mobo's are blowing up left and right due to these power hog Prescott chips. Mobo mfrs are up in arms and refuse to build any more Prescott mobos unless Intel does something about those amp happy chips.

PS manufacturers love them, though.

There is now such a backlog of unwanted Prescott processors that dealers can barely give them away. They have to give away a free A64 chip with each Prescott in order to get people to take the red-headed stepchild Prescotts off their hands.

Don't even get me started on the LGA775 version. :|

 

[Audiophile1980]

In fact, people are sending them back because a standard heatsink won't keep a Prescott cool enough to run for more than 10 minutes

Dell absolutely refuses to even touch one of these flamethrowing Prescotts, so don't even try to order a Dell with one

Actually when Prescot first came out, Dell sent their stock back to Intel and cancelled all orders in favor of northwoods. This made the news big. Now 80% of Intel's processors are .09u and they don't have much choice. Dell has had time to get their other OEMs to bring the voltage regulators on their boards up to prescot spec and to improve the cooling of their systems (look at them now.)

So your little hypoble is actually completely accurate.

The rest of your idiotic rant shows what kind of fanboi you are. I've already said that the stock cooler is fine with good case flow. I did point out that it's also a higher grade cooler than the northwood needs AND that S775 is necessary to handle the extra power requirements of prescot as it scales. I've already told you that the prescot can run in a proper, well cooled case, but not in every case that a northwood could run in and not on all of the same boards.

Do you work for Intel or what?

Why are you taking my factual middle of the road, reality based statements and twisting them into this extremist crap? My VERY last post before your diatribe described why these enthusiasts don't have problems with these prescots (and some do) and have conceded that this is fine for these people. Of course, why the HELL would you want to put up with that for a performance delta of -5% to +5% when the competition (northwood, hammer) can do the same job or better without the heat and power problems.

Please, for the love of GOD, read my last post a few dozen times especially as it touches on "Too hot" vs "more hot" and see if you can handle the difference between "too hot" and "more hot"

I've said MORE hot and TOO hot. That's your extremist black and white thinking. If you can wrap your head around it, I then expanded that to: MORE hot with no benefit = too hot.

 

[LTC8K6]

Your humour detector is out of cal.

I am the one who said that Prescott was indeed warmer than Northwood, but not enough to worry about.

I work for the Devil, so heat is never a bother.

Got a link to support the bit about Dell sending back Prescott's?

Were the Prescott's too hot or were the mobos not up to Intel's power specs for the Prescott?

 

[Audiophile1980]

There were a lot of media outlets that covered it in march. I believe that Hardocp and the Inquirer touched on it. It was also the fodder for much forum banter (although maybe not anandtech - but certainly arstechnica, aceshardware, other high-brow sites.)
Anyway, you can take Ed's read on it here from overclockers.com:

"Intel of course would feverishly deny that, and will doing a lot of things to promote their products, but where's the beef? Who in their right mind would buy a Prescott at this point in time?

Not Dell, for one. They aren't selling any PressHots. If Dell isn't selling Intel, something's got to be bad.

You can talk about DDR2 and PCIExpress video cards until you're blue in the face, but the initial generation of both won't perfrom substantially better than current stuff. If the new CPU were stellar, you might overlook that, but the only thing stellar about PressHot is its heat."
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00543/