Is it really worth it?

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
No, it isn't worth it.

This is why you must live every day of your pointless little life to the fullest and try to get as much enjoyment out of it that you can before you die and are forgotten.

What you make a lot of money,and hate your job??

Thats why you get paid Big bucks,at least I hope you do.

my base pay is like $30,000 a year,plus overtime,
I can pay my bills without the overtime,so I don't take much O/T when the weather is nice.

That way I can do stuff thats Fun,vivsit friends/family.

If you are really depressed,talk to a Human,not to the geeks here at ATOT.

Best wishes to you.

I have maybe 10 days a year I hate being at work.Yeah I mumble on Mondays;but
most Mondays are not too bad..
Most days I really like my job.I hope the reverse is not true for you.

 

[dfi]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
would you rather work 40 hours a week at near minimum wage at some crappy fast food/retail/manufacturing job and hate what you are doing even more?

You've missed it entirely, my friend.

I have nothing against these jobs themselves. If one finds rest and enjoyment in them, then so much the better for that one. What I do question however, is the choice that I see so many people make. The choice to give their lives over to work and burn themself out by so doing. Sacrificing their happiness for money well beyond what they need to provide a decent life.

And Pacfanweb, it's not that I question the wisdom of what you say about having someone to provide for. Rather, I am questioning why I have made the decision to provide for myself with a job I dislike instead of with a job that I am fullfilled in. It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing to take jobs that are life-sapping when there are jobs available that are almost infinitely fullfilling and still provide more than sufficient money for supporting one's self and one's family. Having money beyond what I need has never made me happier than having only enough to get by.

ZV

So says the person that likely has more money than you need. Have you ever lived in poverty? You're extolling the virtues of choice from atop a mountain of opportunity that almost everyone wishes they could climb; unfortunately, not everyone has these opportunities. Is that fair? Is it fair for you to forfeit your opportunities when so many others aren't given them? I think you should ask yourself this question when you consider how many people work their entire lives barely getting by. If you wish to enlist in a lifestyle of ascetism then you are free to do so.

I'm a little annoyed. I know that I have opportunities not available to all and I feel I would be remiss if I were not to seize them. The only thing I can do is insure that no one in my family has to suffer; this doesn't mean expensive cars, huge houses, etc.; no, this just means that I can enable them as much as possible.

On another note, have you ever heard of the scarcity principle discussed in psychology? Take away your ability to acquire excess and I think you'll realize rather quickly how fortunate you are.

I hope you find your place, and given that you're quite young (I'm 24, and I've fought over a lot of the same things that you have now, but I've found balance) you will.

The only thing opportunities give you are choices. The only thing choices gives you is freedom. How much freedom have you really gained if the opportunities you have bind you to a reaction of obligation?

Brough to you by another young professional who is re-evaluating his life.

dfi

 

[brigden]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
No, it isn't worth it.

This is why you must live every day of your pointless little life to the fullest and try to get as much enjoyment out of it that you can before you die and are forgotten.

Stop listening to Radiohead.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: dfi

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
would you rather work 40 hours a week at near minimum wage at some crappy fast food/retail/manufacturing job and hate what you are doing even more?

You've missed it entirely, my friend.

I have nothing against these jobs themselves. If one finds rest and enjoyment in them, then so much the better for that one. What I do question however, is the choice that I see so many people make. The choice to give their lives over to work and burn themself out by so doing. Sacrificing their happiness for money well beyond what they need to provide a decent life.

And Pacfanweb, it's not that I question the wisdom of what you say about having someone to provide for. Rather, I am questioning why I have made the decision to provide for myself with a job I dislike instead of with a job that I am fullfilled in. It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing to take jobs that are life-sapping when there are jobs available that are almost infinitely fullfilling and still provide more than sufficient money for supporting one's self and one's family. Having money beyond what I need has never made me happier than having only enough to get by.

ZV

So says the person that likely has more money than you need. Have you ever lived in poverty? You're extolling the virtues of choice from atop a mountain of opportunity that almost everyone wishes they could climb; unfortunately, not everyone has these opportunities. Is that fair? Is it fair for you to forfeit your opportunities when so many others aren't given them? I think you should ask yourself this question when you consider how many people work their entire lives barely getting by. If you wish to enlist in a lifestyle of ascetism then you are free to do so.

I'm a little annoyed. I know that I have opportunities not available to all and I feel I would be remiss if I were not to seize them. The only thing I can do is insure that no one in my family has to suffer; this doesn't mean expensive cars, huge houses, etc.; no, this just means that I can enable them as much as possible.

On another note, have you ever heard of the scarcity principle discussed in psychology? Take away your ability to acquire excess and I think you'll realize rather quickly how fortunate you are.

I hope you find your place, and given that you're quite young (I'm 24, and I've fought over a lot of the same things that you have now, but I've found balance) you will.

The only thing opportunities give you are choices. The only thing choices gives you is freedom. How much freedom have you really gained if the opportunities you have bind you to a reaction of obligation?

Brough to you by another young professional who is re-evaluating his life.

dfi

I guess that depends on how you define freedom, doesn't it? I suggested that he could enlist in a lifestyle of ascetism, and by doing so he would be free of societal obligation; of course, everyone has this choice, but few would describe this as freedom.

I say the same thing to everyone who complains about the drain of societal participation: Don't do it. You do have the choice, but the reality of making it isn't so attractive.

If you choose to chase opportunity you will indeed be bound to its quixotic ways; however, the further you go you soon find that you have a lot more choices, and those choices are almost always in your favor. It's a great paradox in my eyes; fight to reach your goals and you find that, once achieved, suddenly everything is made easier. Once you have money it's far, far easier to make more money, for example.

So, for me, freedom is not having my wishes be subordinate to the wishes of others. If I were to abscond from society I would be subordinate to even the most basic necessities: food, shelter, etc. Fighting through it one obviously hopes to achieve freedom where everything is a choice that can be expressed independent of the wishes of others. This resolves the binding problem you discussed.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: dfi

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: iwantanewcomputer
would you rather work 40 hours a week at near minimum wage at some crappy fast food/retail/manufacturing job and hate what you are doing even more?

You've missed it entirely, my friend.

I have nothing against these jobs themselves. If one finds rest and enjoyment in them, then so much the better for that one. What I do question however, is the choice that I see so many people make. The choice to give their lives over to work and burn themself out by so doing. Sacrificing their happiness for money well beyond what they need to provide a decent life.

And Pacfanweb, it's not that I question the wisdom of what you say about having someone to provide for. Rather, I am questioning why I have made the decision to provide for myself with a job I dislike instead of with a job that I am fullfilled in. It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing to take jobs that are life-sapping when there are jobs available that are almost infinitely fullfilling and still provide more than sufficient money for supporting one's self and one's family. Having money beyond what I need has never made me happier than having only enough to get by.

ZV

So says the person that likely has more money than you need. Have you ever lived in poverty? You're extolling the virtues of choice from atop a mountain of opportunity that almost everyone wishes they could climb; unfortunately, not everyone has these opportunities. Is that fair? Is it fair for you to forfeit your opportunities when so many others aren't given them? I think you should ask yourself this question when you consider how many people work their entire lives barely getting by. If you wish to enlist in a lifestyle of ascetism then you are free to do so.

I'm a little annoyed. I know that I have opportunities not available to all and I feel I would be remiss if I were not to seize them. The only thing I can do is insure that no one in my family has to suffer; this doesn't mean expensive cars, huge houses, etc.; no, this just means that I can enable them as much as possible.

On another note, have you ever heard of the scarcity principle discussed in psychology? Take away your ability to acquire excess and I think you'll realize rather quickly how fortunate you are.

I hope you find your place, and given that you're quite young (I'm 24, and I've fought over a lot of the same things that you have now, but I've found balance) you will.

The only thing opportunities give you are choices. The only thing choices gives you is freedom. How much freedom have you really gained if the opportunities you have bind you to a reaction of obligation?

Brough to you by another young professional who is re-evaluating his life.

dfi

I guess that depends on how you define freedom, doesn't it? I suggested that he could enlist in a lifestyle of ascetism, and by doing so he would be free of societal obligation; of course, everyone has this choice, but few would describe this as freedom.

I say the same thing to everyone who complains about the drain of societal participation: Don't do it. You do have the choice, but the reality of making it isn't so attractive.

If you choose to chase opportunity you will indeed be bound to its quixotic ways; however, the further you go you soon find that you have a lot more choices, and those choices are almost always in your favor. It's a great paradox in my eyes; fight to reach your goals and you find that, once achieved, suddenly everything is made easier. Once you have money it's far, far easier to make more money, for example.

So, for me, freedom is not having my wishes be subordinate to the wishes of others. If I were to abscond from society I would be subordinate to even the most basic necessities: food, shelter, etc. Fighting through it one obviously hopes to achieve freedom where everything is a choice that can be expressed independent of the wishes of others. This resolves the binding problem you discussed.

You rail against strawmen.

To say that the choice is between societal obligation and asceticism is asinine and I have nowhere even hinted at suggesting the life of an ascetic would be preferable. Or are you living in some strange alternative reality in which a farmer (a profession chosen by several of my blood relatives, and so, one with which I am reasonably familiar) is somehow synonymous with an ascetic?

I can just as easily choose to be a teacher (a position I have held in the past and thoroughly enjoyed) as opposed to a portfolio analyst, yet to do so is quite clearly not to become an ascetic.

ZV

 

[hippy]

It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing to take jobs that are life-sapping when there are jobs available that are almost infinitely fullfilling and still provide more than sufficient money for supporting one's self and one's family.

Sounds to me that you have never been broke and had to work to have shelter and food.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: hippy

It seems to me that a lot of people are choosing to take jobs that are life-sapping when there are jobs available that are almost infinitely fullfilling and still provide more than sufficient money for supporting one's self and one's family.

Sounds to me that you have never been broke and had to work to have shelter and food.

Hippy, meet strawman.

Kindly take the time to understand what is being said before you respond to things that are not even implied. When there is no choice, there is no choice and I understand that. However, given that it is explicitly stated that the confusion is why people choose life-sapping jobs _when fulfilling and enjoyable jobs are available_ the confusion must obviously then be resultant from watching those who can make the choice between fulfilling work that still pays enough to get by and crappy work that pays more still choose the latter.

ZV

 

[daveymark]

why can't there be more threads in ATOT liike this?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Are we really meant to live the way we do? Are the choices that we're making in this modern society really the ones that are the best for us in terms of happiness and the things that "really matter" in life?

I see this at work a lot, and a major re-org meeting the other day really drove it home because of some things our new COO (Chief Operating Officer) said. We, as a whole, are choosing to take the best years of our lives, the years when we're young and vital and capable of really enjoying _life_, and grinding ourselves into the ground because we're chasing after a few more zeros on the number in our bank accounts. We're sacrificing our youth and our energy for money and neglecting our own happiness, and through some strange inversion of perception, we think we're better off this way because we can buy more stuff or be more comfortable with the bills we have to pay.

I'm buying right into this too. I'm 23. I work 60 hours a week minimum and start each morning by being in the office at 4 am (awake at 3 am). I knew exactly what was expected when I took the job and I was actually happy to take it because it pays well, has great benefits, and if I work my arse off, I can "go places" (whatever the hell that means, I used to think I knew). I'm kicking butt at the job too. Getting rave reviews from everyone involved and my co-workers love me. But it just doesn't seem to be worth it. I come home every day too tired to cook a decent dinner. I wake up each morning swearing at the alarm clock, and leave the office every evening tense and angry.

It's been a steady, slow, downhill since I started the job and anymore I really think that it's a shame I can't just leave and become a farmer or something. There's a reward to hard work. The best job I ever had was doing landscape and grounds work at a state park. I worked hard for 9 hours a day, but had something to show for my work and had time to have a life of my own when I was done at the end of the day. The more I get into the corporate world, the more I believe that we've cheated ourselves by choosing this kind of life.

It's funny. I'm exactly where I thought I wanted to be when I was younger. Except I'm not happy.

Anyone else feel the same way? Is all this really worth it if we have no time to really live?

ZV

P.S. No, there will not be Cliff's Notes. Deal with it.

sounds like your life is your job and your job is your life. you are burnt out already. make some changes are you are going to sink deeper.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
No, it isn't worth it.

This is why you must live every day of your pointless little life to the fullest and try to get as much enjoyment out of it that you can before you die and are forgotten.

keeping things positive I see, CR.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Descartes
I'm busting my arse now working 80+ hours a week on large projects, and I do this in the absence of those I care about (I travel a lot). The plus side is that I will retire very early and will therefore be able to pursue that which inspires me. I also get to take care of my family in ways not otherwise possible.

So, for me, yes it's worth it. I will suffer the short-term to realize greater gains in the long-term. It all depends on what you value the most....

hmmm, what if you have an accident, die somewhat early? that's a life gone, without you ever having done the stuff that inspires you, or spent the time you could have with the people you care about.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Coquito
Dream of somewhere you're not, then go there.

If you're not happy, or making someone else content, you're not living.

Are you happy or making someone else content, Coquito?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Yup, life sucks.

Nebor, I'm hoping you're going to seek some professional advice on your depression.

 

[TheShiz]

once you have enough money to live ok (food, shelter), the effect of additional wealth to overall happiness is minimal. so you can buy a bigger house that you will not spend much time in the additional space anyway, so you can buy a more expensive car, so you can eat more expensive food you never have to prepare for yourself, so you can buy crap you could borrow or get from a library anyway, so you get longer and more exotic vacations, so you can have more kids you don't have the time to raise properly.

Unless you are very poor and struggling to survive, I think anyone that spends most of their time concerned with money has serious self-worth issues.

 

[lobadobadingdong]

my guess is you're not a christian (or have any religion at all) are you?

 

[piroroadkill]

Originally posted by: audi
my advice to you, start drinking heavily

Quoted for truth.

 

[CptObvious]

I don't think I could work any job that required me to get up at ungodly hours in the morning or work weekends. For me, lack of sleep is the fastest path to getting burned out. Last year I had a horrible case of insomnia and felt like Ed Norton's character in Fight Club - very grim.

For me it's worth it to take a pay cut to work normal hours and have evenings free and be able to wake up when the sun is rising, not when it's dark. :thumbsup:

 

[NTB]

What can you do when your dreams come true, and it's not quite like you planned?

Sorry, but at this point I don't have much in the way of useful advice, seeing that I'm working through something similar myself. I hit this point while I was still *in* school. Got to the point where I hated the major that I'd chosen, the classes I was taking, etc. I was NOT a nice person to be around over the last 1.5 to 2 years. I got sucked into that "gotta make money" pit, and changed majors to the degree that I've got now. Not that it did me much good I've been out of school for a few months now, and am looking for a job, which isn't going so well, but that's fine. Don't get me wrong - I want one; I want to get out of my parent's place and into my own. But these last few months have given me a break that I needed desperately. I feel better now than I have in close to 2 years, and I do not wish to go back to that point, if I can help it. Once I get onto my own two feet, I may very well go back and finish my original degree - something I got into because I liked it; not because it would make me rich.

Nate

 

[V00D00]

sounds like you need a job you enjoy.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
my guess is you're not a christian (or have any religion at all) are you?

I can't speak for other people, I know that my own experiences and coping abilities are not the same as many (most?) people's, but if I weren't Christian I would not be merely musing about this subject. If I weren't Christian, I would probably be suicidal.

Honestly though that's the one area of my life where I'm really happy and content. I spend most of my weeks wishing for Sunday to roll around again.

And to CptObvious; I really think that's doing it more than anything. 4am-4pm is nowhere near being close to 7am-7pm, even though they're both 12 hour shifts. I wish I'd known that before.

ZV