Is it racist to hate members of the Tea Party?

[Ichinisan]

I'm not a "tea bagger," I just want the government to stop spending so much money.

That's all.

RACIST!

That is all.

 

[destrekor]

moderate-libertarians is what it's at baby.
the most under-appreciated group, well, save for the socialist parties.

when we can finally get a decent number of libertarians in Congress, and are thus able to upset the balance between Left and Right inside the chambers, some real progress might actually be made. The parties might all be forced to, you know, actually work together toward something they can all agree on.

 

[preslove]

Tea Party principles aren't against government.

Bullshit. That is just 100% not true. Tea Partiers have attacked state government as vociferously as they have the federal government.

Most people don't realize why our republic has lasted as long as it has. Most don't realize why, for so long, our country enjoyed levels of greatness that others couldn't touch.

Usually when someone says something like this, they will then go on some ignorant rant about American history.

Federal government originally had almost no control over individuals. Federal government should only handle matters of inter-state commerce and national defense.

Yes, this made us 'great,' not the Democracy, 1st Amendment, endless frontier, tons of natural resources, open immigration. States rights made us great 🙄

Federal government should get funding by taxing imports / exports, which would encourage Americans to be producers and compete internationally.

The 19th century called, it wants its economic policy back 🙄

BTW, I hope you don't call yourself a libertarian, because free trade is a cornerstone of the philosophy.

State government would have somewhat more control than Fed. Don't like things in one state? You're free to choose the one that matches your ideals better.

I agree. Let's let states legalize marijuana...

On your own property, you the individual would have absolute freedom and control as long as your activities don't infringe on the basic human rights of others.

Funny, most polls show that tea baggers are against gay marriage, legalizing drugs, and freedom of choice.

Now, everything is upside-down. How did it reach a point where Federal government has power over states and individuals?

Uh, modernity happened? Maybe you should read up on 20th century history, and maybe focus on the depression, WWII, the cold war etc. It's really hard to run a modern, technologically advanced nation with a 19th century governing philosophy.

 

[preslove]

Some people DO imply that they're all racists.

(clip coming up...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsmDmxIUqGE
Absolutely sickening.

Rush Limbaugh has said shit so much worse than that, it's not even comparable.

 

[eits]

I thought machines produced bags of tea.

am i the only one who sees the irony in this post? seriously??

 

[Ichinisan]

Yes, this made us 'great,' not the Democracy, 1st Amendment, endless frontier, tons of natural resources, open immigration. States rights made us great 🙄

No. INDIVIDUAL rights. You cited the 1st amendment. It was an amendment to the US Constitution. That document is clear that states retain all rights that weren't explicitly granted to the federal government. The US Constitution, Bill of Rights, the system of amendments...these collectively made our country great.

 

[preslove]

No. INDIVIDUAL rights. You cited the 1st amendment. It was an amendment to the US Constitution. That document is clear that states retain all rights that weren't explicitly granted to the federal government.

Uh... What the fuck do states rights have to do with individual rights? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

You talk about individual rights in one sentence and then refer to the 10th amendment granting states powers not given to the Feds. A state is not an individual.

You DO realize that before the 16th Amendment was passed (and then actually enforced) that "states rights" trumped individual rights, right? States were free to discriminate, ignore civil & human rights, and just generally shit all over everyone's 'individual rights' as long as they pleased.

You really know a lot less about our history and government than you think you do.

 

[Ichinisan]

The 19th century called, it wants its economic policy back 🙄

Didn't the US economy experience unprecedented growth in the 19th century? (after the Civil War)

BTW, I hope you don't call yourself a libertarian, because free trade is a cornerstone of the philosophy.

I do call myself a Libertarian. Did I say something that conflicted with that?

I agree. Let's let states legalize marijuana...

I agree. States should only be allowed to regulate the sale and distribution. If you grown it, you should be able to smoke it. If you give hard drugs to your children, you're negligent and violating their basic human rights, and it's OK for gov't to intervene.

Funny, most polls show that tea baggers are against gay marriage, legalizing drugs, and freedom of choice.

There's that term again. U trollin'? I'm pro-life, but strictly because I don't want government to be able to choose when I'm granted my basic human rights. In almost any situation, you have the ability to prevent pregnancy and prevent that life from ever forming. In cases of rape, where a woman had no choice, I do believe you should be able to terminate. I believe the founders deliberately used the term "endowed by their creator" as a preventative measure. This way, a future corrupt government couldn't simply redefine our rights or choose when we are entitled to them.

Uh, modernity happened? Maybe you should read up on 20th century history, and maybe focus on the depression, WWII, the cold war etc. It's really hard to run a modern, technologically advanced nation with a 19th century governing philosophy.

I do believe the depression era was caused by progressive government. I believe FDR's "new deals" actually prolonged the Depression, but those in power influenced the way history remembers it. I also believe our post-WWII economic boom was due to our factories being the greatest producers of goods in the world. Our current policies seem to discourage production of goods in the US...and things aren't going very well.

 

[Ichinisan]

Yes, this made us 'great,' not the Democracy, 1st Amendment, endless frontier, tons of natural resources, open immigration. States rights made us great 🙄

No. INDIVIDUAL rights.
You cited the 1st amendment. It was an amendment to the US Constitution. That document is clear that states retain all rights that weren't explicitly granted to the federal government. The US Constitution, Bill of Rights, the system of amendments...these collectively made our country great.

Uh... What the fuck do states rights have to do with individual rights? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Those were separate points. I was going through the things you mentioned in the quote.

 

[preslove]

Didn't the US economy dominate in the 19th century?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no

I do call myself a Libertarian. Did I say something that conflicted with that?

Uh... you called for paying for the federal government through import/export taxes. A cornerstone of libertarianism is free trade and open markets between individuals and NATIONS.

You don't even know the first thing about the political philosophy you profess to follow 🙄

I agree. States should only be allowed to regulate the sale and distribution. If you grown it, you should be able to smoke it. If you give hard drugs to your children, you're negligent and violating their basic human rights, and it's OK for gov't to intervene.

Well, at least you have one thing right.

There's that term again. U trollin'?

I suggest you remove the sand from your vagina.

I'm against abortion, but strictly because I don't want government to be able to choose when I'm granted my basic human rights. I believe the founders said "endowed by their creator" for a reason: So that a corrupt government could never redefine when we obtain our basic rights.

Yeah, but fuck the rights of the mother, the actual human being.

I do believe the depression era was caused by progressives

That is REALLY dumb and ignorant. The previous 3 presidents to the depression were free market Republicans. If you knew anything about the history of progressivism, then you'd know that they didn't really get ahold of the economic levers of power until the new deal. You do know that the depression actually predated the new deal, right?

and FDR actually prolonged it.

If he did at all, it was because he first tried to balance the budget during a depression.

 

[Ichinisan]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no





Uh... you called for paying for the federal government through import/export taxes. A cornerstone of libertarianism is free trade and open markets between individuals and NATIONS.

You don't even know the first thing about the political philosophy you profess to follow 🙄


Well, at least you have one thing right.


I suggest you remove the sand from your vagina.



Yeah, but fuck the rights of the mother, the actual human being.





That is REALLY dumb and ignorant. The previous 3 presidents to the depression were free market Republicans. If you knew anything about the history of progressivism, then you'd know that they didn't really get ahold of the economic levers of power until the new deal. You do know that the depression actually predated the new deal, right?



If he did at all, it was because he first tried to balance the budget during a depression.

I was actively editing...so I hope you can read it again.

 

[Ichinisan]

Uh... you called for paying for the federal government through import/export taxes. A cornerstone of libertarianism is free trade and open markets between individuals and NATIONS.
You don't even know the first thing about the political philosophy you profess to follow 🙄

I didn't "call for it." I said that's just the way it is. How should the Federal government fund defense in the interests of the states? Taxing imports is more appropriate than taxing individuals. It also has the positive side-effect of encouraging Americans to produce for themselves.

 

[Ichinisan]

tea baggers

There's that term again. U trollin'?

I suggest you remove the sand from your vagina.

I suggest you remove the term from your rhetoric...if you want to have civil conversations.

 

[Ichinisan]

That is REALLY dumb and ignorant. The previous 3 presidents to the depression were free market Republicans. If you knew anything about the history of progressivism, then you'd know that they didn't really get ahold of the economic levers of power until the new deal. You do know that the depression actually predated the new deal, right?

That's ignoring the fact that there was a world-wide economic recession. I believe it wouldn't be known as the "Great Depression" at all, if not for the New Deals.

Yeah, but fuck the rights of the mother, the actual human being.

I've said before, I don't want gov't to decide when I become "human" and when I'm entitled to my rights.

 

[preslove]

I was actively editing...so I hope you can read it again.

I'm about done with arguing with you because your ignorance of basic American history and libertarianism, the very philosophy you claim to follow, is astounding.

But for your '19th century economic growth' point, here it goes: America had a huge frontier that the Federal government exploited by giving land to railroads (the railroads were given MILLIONS of 19th century dollars worth of land). We had TONS of immigrants from Europe who came and settled unused land. There was intense industrialization, which had nothing to do with states rights.

Hell, industrialization didn't really kick into high gear until AFTER the Civil War, which was kind of a low point for states rights and kind of high point for the freaking federal government.


Also, China is currently experiencing unprecedented economic growth, too. I suspect 'freedom' has nothing to do with it.


States rights and individual freedoms aren't really applicable to either phenomena. Jesus, why am I even bothering.

 

[Ichinisan]

No one is saying that ALL tea partiers are racists, but there just seem to be a bunch of racist tea partiers:

Some people DO imply that they're all racists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsmDmxIUqGE
Absolutely sickening.

Rush Limbaugh has said shit so much worse than that, it's not even comparable.

I don't listen to him, but I would like to hear some examples...preferably with context. Do you have any?

 

[kstu]

teabaggers

 

[preslove]

I didn't "call for it." I said that's just the way it is. How should the Federal government fund defense in the interests of the states? Taxing imports more appropriate than taxing individuals. It also has the positive side-effect of encouraging Americans to produce for themselves.

Again, you have no freaking clue what libertarianism is. LOL.

Maybe you should actually read about the philosophy you profess to follow 🙄

 

[preslove]

That's ignoring the fact that there was a world-wide economic recession. I believe it wouldn't be known as the "Great Depression" at all, if not for the New Deals.

It was a depression WAY before 1933, when FDR came into office. Hoover is blamed for significantly worsening it. Only a few crackpots really give FDR much blame at all.

I've said before, I don't want gov't to decide when I become "human" and when I'm entitled to my rights.

Uh... the vast majority of humans have believed that you become human when you are born. It's not a fucking arbitrary determination.

 

[Ichinisan]

Hell, industrialization didn't really kick into high gear until AFTER the Civil War, which was kind of a low point for states rights and kind of high point for the freaking federal government.

Civil war was not a win for individual rights? What about the slaves?

I agree that the government over-stepped boundaries by preventing the states from seceding. The founders were against slavery. The southern states refused to join the union without certain clauses in the Constitution, which were to be addressed at a later date. When the time came to deal with those issues, it ultimately led to the Civil War.

Sorry to be so vague. That's hear-say on my part (I'm no scholar)...but I'll do my homework.

[edit]
...I believe this had something to do with the three-fifths compromise, which finally convinced the southern states to join the union.
-The southern states wanted to count slaves when determining representation (electoral college and House of Representatives)
-The abolitionist founders said that they should FREE the slaves if they wanted the additional representation. (if slaves couldn't vote, how would they be properly represented?)
-The southern states would not join the union unless they could count slaves toward their federal representation.
-The compromise allowed individual slaves to count as 3/5 of a person in determining representation.

It was a depression WAY before 1933

You mean the "roaring twenties?"

 

[Mike Gayner]

Most people don't realize why our republic has lasted as long as it has. Most don't realize why, for so long, our country enjoyed levels of greatness that others couldn't touch.

Federal government originally had almost no control over individuals. etc etc blah blah

You do realise that the greatest prosperity of the US has been post-war? In other words, once the federal government was already large and pervasive?

 

[preslove]

The founders were against slavery.

OMG

Dude. Please, for the love of god, don't vote.

 

[Ichinisan]

OMG

Dude. Please, for the love of god, don't vote.

I'm eager to learn and open to research and discuss any rebuttal you can provide to me.

 

[Mike Gayner]

I'm eager to learn and open to research and discuss any rebuttal you can provide to me.

You could start by reading a history book. Fuck dude, it's your own country and us "foreigners" know more about your history than you do.

 

[Ichinisan]

moderate-libertarians is what it's at baby.
the most under-appreciated group, well, save for the socialist parties.

when we can finally get a decent number of libertarians in Congress, and are thus able to upset the balance between Left and Right inside the chambers, some real progress might actually be made. The parties might all be forced to, you know, actually work together toward something they can all agree on.

I like to think I line up pretty nicely with Libertarian ideals ("liberal" in the classic sense). However, Preslove says I'm not Libertarian at all. 😕

You could start by reading a history book. Fuck dude, it's your own country and us "foreigners" know more about your history than you do.

Do you really know more about my country than I do? I believe you assume incorrectly. 🙄

I actually DO believe you and most educated foreigners know more about my country than MOST Americans (which is shameful).