Germany was prosperous long before we "established democracy" The were "developed" at the same time as us, if not earlier.
Japan also industrialized before WW2.
But give no credit to the US for liberating them and helping them turn into thriving democracies, you US basher?
People who say stupid sh1t deserve to be corrected.
Also germany had expirience with real democracy, lasted about 10-15 real years until the nazi's did well in the elections. We certainly contributed, but it was not our creation.
Japan I believe had little if any expirience in democracy though.
There is no proof Iran did anything just pure speculation. There is proof Al Qaeda killed 3,000 people on 9/11. I'm not debating governments with you I am telling you Iranian people don't hate the U.S.
The US govt. said Iran is the #1 sponsor of terror? Really? I doubt they said that especially since they were trying to invade Iraq. Why would they say Iran is the #1 sponsor of terror and then invade Iraq? What the U.S says must be right then, yet they attack Iraq? The U.S also says no terrorist are coming from SA according to you ......
You are also suggestion the people of Iran are anti-west. Sorry the people of Iran are the most westernized people in the M.E and anyone who knows the region will tell you. You go to Iran with an American flag shirt on and people will beg for you to bring them back to the states. You do the same in Saudi Arabia and they'll cut your head off. I'm not just saying this because my parents are from Iran. You can ask anyone who knows the region or any Iranian and they will clearly tell you. Your idea of Iran is one big pile of sand with a million terrorist. You should do your research on countries before you generalize them all.
Like magomago said Iranians aren't that "religious". They are probably the least religious people in the M.E. Saudi Arabia is home to the most extreme sects of Islam.
Saudi Arabia is the largest sponsor of terrorism. If you want to debate this with me go ahead, but there is nothing you can debate with me. Look at the people of SA and look at the people of Iran. Two things I bet you haven't looked at before.
Who is more likely to go into Iraq?
1) The people of Iran who speak Farsi not Arabic, who are not Arabs, and 60% speak a second language and of that 60%, 80% of it is English not Arabic. Why English? because they want to be like the West. Who love the United States.
2) People who hate the United States, a country where they teach their children to hate the west, a country where OBL is highly popular, A country that funnels out tons of money to terrorist organizations by the PEOPLE. Speak Arabic and even on T.V have said they would go and fight in the name of God.
Yet the United States doesn't say anything about Saudi Arabia. Of course nobody from Saudi Arabia is going into Iraq. They are all coming from Syria and Iran :roll:
This adminsitration is a joke and it is fooling people like you who don't know the area. Anyone remember the Shah of Iran. He ass kissed the United States and Israel too much. Look what happend. Shah = US.Israel > His own people. New regime = People > Israel.US
10 years from now you'll see the Royal Family sitting in the oval office talking about how they cannot believe they lost their country and the US administration will be in "shock". Yet lets keep selling toys to SA so when this regime does collapse they can start WWIII on Israel and possibly even Iraq.
Saudi Arabia = U.S > People New Regime People > U.S
The same could be said of a new Iraq government. If they are more for the United States than the people then you will see history repeat itself.
Bush bashing and random political facts aside I just got done covering this issue last semester (poli sci major). Basically every state that has based their economy on oil without a established democratic system/and broadbased economic system, has ended up in the shitter to put it plainly. The main problem is that they base their whole economy on it (nigeria bases 90 of it's GDP on oil) and it leads to horrible income distribution. ALso, it hinders the devolpment of other parts of the economy that need to be devolped, and the longterm isn't observed and the realization that oil will only provide income for the next 50ish years is also overlooked.
ANother huge problem is the that the price/supply of oil is way to viotile to be a stable source of state income. In the past century, several non middle eastern countries(trying to avoid relgious, politically sterotypes) have tried supplementing their economy w/ oil. Most have failed.
Brazil- worst income distribution in the world
Nigeria - 90percent of GDP is based on oil and any price changes just kills the economy
THe UK is the only state in this past century that oil has truly helped; discovered in the N. Sea by scotland, it was a huge boost to a slowing economy in the 1980s, and it was good because it wasn't the dominating force in their economy.
just some to wrap your brain around, sorry for the horrible spelling, i used the "quick reply"
ANother huge problem is the that the price/supply of oil is way to viotile to be a stable source of state income. In the past century, several non middle eastern countries(trying to avoid relgious, politically sterotypes) have tried supplementing their economy w/ oil. Most have failed.
Brazil- worst income distribution in the world
Nigeria - 90percent of GDP is based on oil and any price changes just kills the economy
THe UK is the only state in this past century that oil has truly helped; discovered in the N. Sea by scotland, it was a huge boost to a slowing economy in the 1980s, and it was good because it wasn't the dominating force in their economy.
just some to wrap your brain around, sorry for the horrible spelling, i used the "quick reply"
Aimster, Iran is the leading sponsor of terrorism. Believe it.
Syria is a state that is under Iran's foot basically, and Lebanon is occupied by Syrian troops. Iran funds hezbollah, which might be the most sophisticated terrorist organization in the world. It gave them an unmanned aerial vehicle which was flown by hezbollah a few weeks back. I understand that you are Iranian and this is very sensitive for you, but reality is reality.
Also, language barriers arent a big thing. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, remember that always. Terrorists are not coming from S Arabia into Iraq, although S Arabia is funding terrorism in Iraq which I definately believe.
You seem to be forgetting that people on these forums and I dont speak of the Iranian people when speaking of Iran usually, we mean the govt. of Iran. Which is run by extreme muslim fanatics.
ahaha when did I EVER suggest people of Iran are anti west?? wow you make a lot of stuff up good one
and my idea of Iran is a pile of sand with a million terrorists?? great comedy dude, another great one
Syria is a state that is under Iran's foot basically, and Lebanon is occupied by Syrian troops. Iran funds hezbollah, which might be the most sophisticated terrorist organization in the world. It gave them an unmanned aerial vehicle which was flown by hezbollah a few weeks back. I understand that you are Iranian and this is very sensitive for you, but reality is reality.
Also, language barriers arent a big thing. Enemy of my enemy is my friend, remember that always. Terrorists are not coming from S Arabia into Iraq, although S Arabia is funding terrorism in Iraq which I definately believe.
You seem to be forgetting that people on these forums and I dont speak of the Iranian people when speaking of Iran usually, we mean the govt. of Iran. Which is run by extreme muslim fanatics.
ahaha when did I EVER suggest people of Iran are anti west?? wow you make a lot of stuff up good one
and my idea of Iran is a pile of sand with a million terrorists?? great comedy dude, another great one
I'm not denying the Iranian government has issues with terrorism. The government is everything I wish it wasn't. You are more than welcome to bash the Iranian goverment if you want, it won't bother me. If I had my way I would kill all those crazy mullahs. Iran is not a place I would live or visit anytime in the near future. The only Iranians I know are my parents and my girlfriend. I don't even speak Farsi or know anything about the culture other than what I read online.
How can you say terrorist are not coming in from SA? Where is the evidence of this? The people of SA would strap bombs to their chest and blow themselves up. No they don't just talk about it. They actually do it. Talking and carrying out these actions is totally different. These very people talk about going and fighting for their life.
These links prove they come from Saudi Arabia:
http://english.aljazeera.net/N...-A57F-0B3CCB8A5C8C.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97074,00.html
These two links seem to suggest only a handful are foreign:
http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle4632.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...5-detainees-usat_x.htm
Nowhere does it say the majority of them are from Iran or Syria. Nowhere does it mention the U.S going off on Saudi Arabia for letting them slip into Iraq, but they critize Iran and Syria for letting people come in.
How can you say terrorist are not coming in from SA? Where is the evidence of this? The people of SA would strap bombs to their chest and blow themselves up. No they don't just talk about it. They actually do it. Talking and carrying out these actions is totally different. These very people talk about going and fighting for their life.
These links prove they come from Saudi Arabia:
http://english.aljazeera.net/N...-A57F-0B3CCB8A5C8C.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97074,00.html
These two links seem to suggest only a handful are foreign:
http://www.iraq.net/displayarticle4632.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w...5-detainees-usat_x.htm
Nowhere does it say the majority of them are from Iran or Syria. Nowhere does it mention the U.S going off on Saudi Arabia for letting them slip into Iraq, but they critize Iran and Syria for letting people come in.
You realize that the people of Saudi Arabia are getting pretty "western" also? It isn't a coicidence that stores like Victoria's Secret does so well over there. The difference though is that the women dress much more liberally in their house rather than outside in public.
Causation does not imply correlation.
I can claim that the second most known language in Iraq beyond Arabic is English. And that everyone learns it. Therefore they must want to be like the west, and they love the west!
No, more likely it is because Iraq was a colony of Britian for a period of time. Furthermore, it is to your advantage economically to speak English because it is the universal language. Doing that open up more opportunities for you.
On this for just a second. I doubt the populatoin teaches the children to "hate the west". That sounds a little ridiculous. "Hate those who have spurred much of the advancement this past 100 yeras"...riiight. Remember that Saudi Arabia is a very repressive regime, and it is backed by the United States...see where this is heading? In the entire Muslim world I would think only a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY small minority would actually try to teach hate based strictly on a religous book. It is always other issues, and people make their complaints known and then invoke authority (such as god) to show they are right.
I would think that most Saudis are decent people (who speak funny
They speak the closest to standard Arabic [which no one in the ME actually speaks...its only written. everyone speaks extremely colloquial styles of arabic] and I feel i'm actually speaking to a real life manifestation of "See Jane run. Run jane run!" ) overall~ like the ME in general they have some chauvinist problems, but by and by you could live with them and they wouldn't jump at your with a blade because you are "wetsern". But don't label Saudis as being a part of their government~ its a situation similar with Iran. They are just more religoius though
Originally posted by: Aimster
Oil is not their only source of wealth
why don't you name the others?
Aimster.... those would be good points in a casual discussion at the bar.... truth be told, none of the above have simple answers... have you ever been anywhere near the middle east ??
Originally posted by: DeeKnow
Originally posted by: Aimster
Oil is not their only source of wealth
why don't you name the others?
He can't because the middle east doesn't have anything else. He can talk about education blah blah blah but the only thing funding it and everything else was oil.
My idea of the ME is a group of nations that are so focused on hate that they obstruct their own progress. If Palistine had used thier resources for development instead of squandering them on a fruitless effort to push Isreal into the sea, just think how prosperous they would be today.
I don't think thats true. The fact is that Arabs can't get along with one another. They fight and fight with each other and are split into various ethnic categories. The funny thing is when they have the Arab league meetings and someone ends up leaving prematurely and nothing ever gets done. I'll say this 100 times, if they could get along with one another, they wouldn't have to worry about Israel. Israel would be neutered.
I think we just made the same statement. I just focused on the obvious eternal fight, not on the general conflict. Let the ME nations learn to live in peace and focus on development and watch the shiney towers of wealth rise!
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
Originally posted by: DeeKnow
Originally posted by: Aimster
Oil is not their only source of wealth
why don't you name the others?
He can't because the middle east doesn't have anything else. He can talk about education blah blah blah but the only thing funding it and everything else was oil.
I can't? Are you sure about that?
What makes you think Arabs don't get along? Show me evidence they don't get along.
Show me evidence they are concerned about Israel.
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