Is it better to have less rights and be safer

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Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: tweakmm
What we really need are video cameras in every home and private space.

That way the government can be completely sure that we don't do anything bad.

wait... wait... I think my sarcasm meter is out of batteries...

ahhh it was entertaining watching it. i was wondering how many post before you caught on heh.

he cameras were to much of a giveaway.

Whats funny is when I first read that cameras post I stood up from my chair and said "WHAT THE FCK" out loud... followed by silence as the reality of the sarcasm washed over me.

 

tweakmm

Lifer
May 28, 2001
18,436
4
0
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: tweakmm
What we really need are video cameras in every home and private space.

That way the government can be completely sure that we don't do anything bad.

wait... wait... I think my sarcasm meter is out of batteries...

ahhh it was entertaining watching it. i was wondering how many post before you caught on heh.

he cameras were to much of a giveaway.

Whats funny is when I first read that cameras post I stood up from my chair and said "WHAT THE FCK" out loud... followed by silence as the reality of the sarcasm washed over me.
Well, my job here is done.
:laugh:
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Doboji
I would rather have more rights, and be safer.

I really feel that these days police are getting more and more power over the citzenry. I'm at the point where I'm ready to support organizations like the ACLU even if it means guilty people go free.

It's not even so much the new laws on the books, it's the increased overzealous enforcement... things like Speeding cameras... Human beings make mistakes and as our laws constrict further and further around us... at what point to we lose our ability to push back? I think we're getting close to that now.

-Max

Come to New Jersey. Police will pull you over for just about anything. They set speed limits unrealistically low, then hide in areas where they know people will exceed that limit.

Some towns like Princeton are 25 mph all over the place, and the roads are horribly overpoliced.

Whenever I question someone about this abuse, they say "It's for your protection"
:laugh:
 

Maleficus

Diamond Member
May 2, 2001
7,682
0
0
Come to New Jersey. Police will pull you over for just about anything. They set speed limits unrealistically low, then hide in areas where they know people will exceed that limit.

Some towns like Princeton are 25 mph all over the place, and the roads are horribly overpoliced.

Whenever I question someone about this abuse, they say "It's for your protection"

Yea I usually just punch out any cop that stops me for speeding, I should be able to set my own speed limits!
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy
I'd rather have more rights. Right now our system is leaning towards less rights, less safety.

I guess I should have been more specific... I think our system is leaning towards less rights in the futile attempt to be safer.

 

acemcmac

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
13,712
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Freedom is essential and so is safety. One cannot come at the expense of another. We are talking about responsible human beings here so lets assume that certain things are already taken care of. You cannot take away a man's freedom and then claim it is for his own good because you are making him safer. What if he doesn't want that to happen? He can choose his own path. The government is there to ensure the safety of its citizens from stealing from each other, hurting each other etc. It is also there to protect them from outside threats. But they have no right to take away our essential rights, such as freedom of speech and privacy.

:laugh:

ARE YOU KIDDING???
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: tweakmm
What we really need are video cameras in every home and private space.

That way the government can be completely sure that we don't do anything bad.

wait... wait... I think my sarcasm meter is out of batteries...

ahhh it was entertaining watching it. i was wondering how many post before you caught on heh.

he cameras were to much of a giveaway.

Whats funny is when I first read that cameras post I stood up from my chair and said "WHAT THE FCK" out loud... followed by silence as the reality of the sarcasm washed over me.

hahahah

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I'd rather take my chances on safety. Life is already dangerous in a lot of ways, no use hiding under the bed...

Also, for the second poll, how about a "less rights, less safety" option ;)
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
Originally posted by: Doboji
I would rather have more rights, and be safer.

I really feel that these days police are getting more and more power over the citzenry. I'm at the point where I'm ready to support organizations like the ACLU even if it means guilty people go free.

It's not even so much the new laws on the books, it's the increased overzealous enforcement... things like Speeding cameras... Human beings make mistakes and as our laws constrict further and further around us... at what point to we lose our ability to push back? I think we're getting close to that now.

-Max

I'm not quite following you.

Based off your example, you should have the right to speed? You can't say that anyone is violating your privacy. You're on a public street. :confused:
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
those that are posting less rights can you give a reason of what rights and why? i really want to know.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Maleficus
Come to New Jersey. Police will pull you over for just about anything. They set speed limits unrealistically low, then hide in areas where they know people will exceed that limit.

Some towns like Princeton are 25 mph all over the place, and the roads are horribly overpoliced.

Whenever I question someone about this abuse, they say "It's for your protection"

Yea I usually just punch out any cop that stops me for speeding, I should be able to set my own speed limits!

That would be "awesome" if there was a middle ground between what you said and having a police state. Maybe a place with reasonable laws that people can actually follow, and maybe, (this is really stretching it), laws that even the officers can follow. The cops aren't stupid, they know that nobody's going to go 25 mph on those streets, that's why they don't even go 25 mph on those streets. They drive a speed that feels comfortable, like every other normal person.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
More rights, less safety. Benjamin Franklin said it best.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
That is the one quote that I hate the most. I believe I should have the freedom & liberties to drink & drive with no license & no insurance.

So most everyone will now say, "well, we need *that* security, to try and prevent someone dangerous from endangering our own lives."

When there is a blanket statement trying to cover all "freedoms" or "liberties" it's just bogus because we all have to give up some "rights" for security. That's not debatable. It's a matter of where you draw the line and it is always decided on a case by case basis.

Just my mini-rant that will be ignored by all.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
More rights, less safety. Benjamin Franklin said it best.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
That is the one quote that I hate the most. I believe I should have the freedom & liberties to drink & drive with no license & no insurance.

So most everyone will now say, "well, we need *that* security, to try and prevent someone dangerous from endangering our own lives."

When there is a blanket statement trying to cover all "freedoms" or "liberties" it's just bogus because we all have to give up some "rights" for security. That's not debatable. It's a matter of where you draw the line and it is always decided on a case by case basis.

Just my mini-rant that will be ignored by all.


ya know i read the constitution and bill of rights. i don't remember having the right to drink and drive...
 

platinumike

Platinum Member
Nov 18, 2004
2,114
3
0
"Any nation that desires to gain a little security at the expense of a little liberty deserves neither and loses both"

-Ben Franklin
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: cubby1223
Originally posted by: F22 Raptor
More rights, less safety. Benjamin Franklin said it best.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
That is the one quote that I hate the most. I believe I should have the freedom & liberties to drink & drive with no license & no insurance.

So most everyone will now say, "well, we need *that* security, to try and prevent someone dangerous from endangering our own lives."

When there is a blanket statement trying to cover all "freedoms" or "liberties" it's just bogus because we all have to give up some "rights" for security. That's not debatable. It's a matter of where you draw the line and it is always decided on a case by case basis.

Just my mini-rant that will be ignored by all.



The problem is that the place that some people want to draw the line is really, really wacked.

Some people would like nothing other than for the US to be a socialist state, with high tax rates for everybody to fund programs that *they* think are useful.
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Originally posted by: tfinch2
Originally posted by: Doboji
I would rather have more rights, and be safer.

I really feel that these days police are getting more and more power over the citzenry. I'm at the point where I'm ready to support organizations like the ACLU even if it means guilty people go free.

It's not even so much the new laws on the books, it's the increased overzealous enforcement... things like Speeding cameras... Human beings make mistakes and as our laws constrict further and further around us... at what point to we lose our ability to push back? I think we're getting close to that now.

-Max

I'm not quite following you.

Based off your example, you should have the right to speed? You can't say that anyone is violating your privacy. You're on a public street. :confused:

I'm saying stop creating more and more laws, and restricting and restricting and restricting all in the name of "saving lives". Our laws were never designed to be enforced with 100% efficiency. If the laws were enforced to that degree EVERYONE would be guilty all the time.

Enough is enough... the laws and the enforcement need to back off a bit.
 

DAGTA

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,172
1
0
Originally posted by: platinumike
"Any nation that desires to gain a little security at the expense of a little liberty deserves neither and loses both"

-Ben Franklin


Exactly. If you are convinced you have to give up rights to be safe, then you've already lost.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: tfinch2

Based off your example, you should have the right to speed? You can't say that anyone is violating your privacy. You're on a public street. :confused:

"Speeding" is a relative term.

If someone wants to go 85 mph down a side street, then no, that's not safe and you shouldn't be speeding that way.

But what about when a township intentionally lowers the speed limit on a road solely to increase traffic ticket revenue? Of course they're going to market the idea as being for "safety", but the real intentions are obvious.

If they lower the speed limit on a highway from 65 mpg down to 40 mph for no apparent reason and without legit legal power to do that, if you go 60 on that street, are you really speeding?
 

Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
7,912
0
76
Think about it... just in the last few decades

Speed limits lowered
seatbelt laws
motorcycle helmet laws
drinking age risen
search and seizure laws relaxed
smoking laws
war on drugs
FCC crackdown (censorship)

the list goes on and on...

When are we going too far?
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: tfinch2

Based off your example, you should have the right to speed? You can't say that anyone is violating your privacy. You're on a public street. :confused:

"Speeding" is a relative term.

If someone wants to go 85 mph down a side street, then no, that's not safe and you shouldn't be speeding that way.

But what about when a township intentionally lowers the speed limit on a road solely to increase traffic ticket revenue? Of course they're going to market the idea as being for "safety", but the real intentions are obvious.

If they lower the speed limit on a highway from 65 mpg down to 40 mph for no apparent reason and without legit legal power to do that, if you go 60 on that street, are you really speeding?


that brings in more stuff. such as red light cameras. personally i think they should be banned.

the one put up in town is on a street out in the country. not at the dangerous intersections that need it.

why out in the country? people forget that there is alight there and blow it (it was put up with the camera). even though over the last 3 years there have been 3 wrecks. other lights in town are far far worse.