Is it better to be born into the adoption system or never to be born at all?

[HAL9000]

i can honestly say, we would be better off... if Hal9000 had not been born.

i'll all for retroactive abortions.

Tell us more about what you think of me, it's so rare that you mention it.

 

[guyver01]

Tell us more about what you think of me, it's so rare that you mention it.

Sure.. and when i do, you'll go crying to the mods like you do in every thread you create when someone says something mean about you. 🙄

Don't ask a question if you don't want the answer.

 

[HAL9000]

Sure.. and when i do, you'll go crying to the mods like you do in every thread you create when someone says something mean about you. 🙄

Don't ask a question if you don't want the answer.

Sarcasm lost on you I see...

 

[guyver01]

Sarcasm lost on you I see...

Time is lost on you.

give it a week, you'll forget about this thread.

 

[HAL9000]

Time is lost on you.

give it a week, you'll forget about this thread.

I'm not sure that I will

 

[guyver01]

I'm not sure that I will

so.. finally admitting your self-diagnosed mental issues are fake?

 

[HAL9000]

so.. finally admitting your self-diagnosed mental issues are fake?

I'm admitting that I'm not discussing my health with you. People who use a persons health to insult them are not worth discussing personal matters with.

 

[BTA]

If you're a white baby then it's worth being in the adoption system...because you wont last long and will most likely go to a good rich family.

If you're black or hispanic then it's a tossup.

 

[bfdd]

Fair enough, would they rather be dead than alive?

What the fuck does that have to do with NEVER EXISTING AT ALL. Your answer is "would you rather have never existed or be born into the adoption system" not "would you rather be dead or in the adoption system" Asking someone to wish they had never existed is a pretty rough thing to do since it's damn near impossible to think of such.

Fact is many people probably never should have been born and there are probably a ton of people who would gladly have given up their life for the lives of others to continue. Life isn't that precious, I've told you NUMEROUS times. It is cheap and easily replaceable. Life SHOULD be respected though, but only as far as it needs to be. Some times people or things need to die, that's natural. To think otherwise is straight idiocy.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

People who throw around the word "logically" consider themself smart in some way or form. Now I'm sure the person I quoted is but I do take issue with one of his statements...

You say very few profilers want to adopt personaly. You say this is a contradiction because they do not believe in abortion. Well here are some nice stats for you..

Only 26% of people even think about adoption. Out of those 26% only 1.3% ever even adopt. That is a very small number of people. So for you to specify profilers by themself for not wanting to adopt is pretty skewed because the fact is a small % of the entire population regardless of belief want to adopt.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/s_seek.cfm

There is link with proof of stats.

Lastly I assumed you were correct because of the tone of your post. For someone to state something so arrogantly you would figure they were right. So naturally I immediately started to Google like crazy to see if profilers or religious people tended to seek adoption less. I have yet to find one single website to display any stats that have to do with adoption and religion. This tells me that you have absolutely no factual information to back your statement up with at all. It was pure speculation on your part.

*edit* wanted to edit this to say that I am not saying you are wrong dude. I'm not here to make enemies. I've read a few of your posts here and you do seem like you hav a damn good head on your shoulders. I simply thought that making a statement about people who don't believe in abortion yet don't want to adopt is off and from what I've researched impossible to prove one way or the other.

Try looking at it this way.

A tiny minority of the population is willing to adopt.

Even if we assume an equal distribution within that minority of pro-lifers vis a vis pro-choicers, it remains that this proportion of willing-to-adopt pro-lifers is a tiny minority of the total population of pro-lifers. This seems to be at odds with their stated ideology, whereas the fact that a tiny majority of pro-choicers are willing to adopt is not at odds with their respective stance on abortion.

Zinfamous did not say that pro-lifers are less likely to adopt than pro-choicers, but merely that a minority of pro-lifers are so willing. Even if we assumed every person in the 26% of willing adopters that you cited were pro-lifers, his statement would still be true.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Finally I'd like to give an example as to why the question is easily answerable. I'm sure plenty of you will tell me the example sucks and blah blah blah all over it. Well have fun doing it.

We all agree that no one knows what never being born is like. To be absolutely nothing and to know absolutely nothing. It could be great, it could be grand or it could be horrible. Or it might just be, well nothing.

So just imagine with me for a moment that you are in a room. It's not the fanciest thing ever but it's got air conditioning and for the most part feels alright. Now sometimes in the summer the air goes out and things can get quite unplesant but it always comes back on at some point. (this for those that couldn't tell sums up your life as you know it now)

Now suppose someone came up to you and said that if you so chose you could walk through the door and on the other side there might be anything from a million women willing to do anything you could ever imagine to a horrible room filled with smoke and fire. It could also lead you into absolute nothingness. There would be absolutely no way to tell what was behind the door or what your chances were. It would simply be 100% chance. (this for those who couldn't tell would sum up the possibility of whatever being "nothing" trully is)

Now tell me, how many of you would honest to God in all sertanty (sic) walk through that door?

You're putting the cart before the horse. It's easy to say that I would prefer to be alive now that I am already alive, but had I never begun to live I'd have no opinion on the matter. Your analogy begins with the assumption that I've already tasted life (that I'm sitting in a room with poor climate control, as it were), but that is not the case for people that do not begin to live.

As stated the question doesn't make sense. It is akin to asking someone they'd prefer to juntletel or not. If you do not know what "juntletel" is, formulating an answer is arbitrary.

 

[Locut0s]

I'm a pro-lifer and that's why I created this thread.

Like I said it's a straw man of an argument. In order for two things to be compared like you want to do they have to be fundamentally similar in some way. One can not compare one state of existence, being an adopted child, with complete non existence. It's apples and oranges. Every time I jack off into a tissue that's a potential child. So was it better for that sperm to have become an adopted child or not? Well the statement doesn't make any sense.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I love how all of HAL's threads follow the exact same pattern. :biggrin:

 

[wirednuts]

i think it would suck to be adopted to a family that uses you as a sex and labor slave

and i also wonder what i would be like if my dad waited just one more second to come, because that would probably mean a different sperm getting through first and i would have been the next justin beaver with all those little beibers runnin after me

 

[Locut0s]

i think it would suck to be adopted to a family that uses you as a sex and labor slave

and i also wonder what i would be like if my dad waited just one more second to come, because that would probably mean a different sperm getting through first and i would have been the next justin beaver with all those little beibers runnin after me

Your username could not be more fitting here.

 

[zinfamous]

People who throw around the word "logically" consider themself smart in some way or form. Now I'm sure the person I quoted is but I do take issue with one of his statements...

You say very few profilers want to adopt personaly. You say this is a contradiction because they do not believe in abortion. Well here are some nice stats for you..

Only 26% of people even think about adoption. Out of those 26% only 1.3% ever even adopt. That is a very small number of people. So for you to specify profilers by themself for not wanting to adopt is pretty skewed because the fact is a small % of the entire population regardless of belief want to adopt.

http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/s_seek.cfm

There is link with proof of stats.

Lastly I assumed you were correct because of the tone of your post. For someone to state something so arrogantly you would figure they were right. So naturally I immediately started to Google like crazy to see if profilers or religious people tended to seek adoption less. I have yet to find one single website to display any stats that have to do with adoption and religion. This tells me that you have absolutely no factual information to back your statement up with at all. It was pure speculation on your part.

*edit* wanted to edit this to say that I am not saying you are wrong dude. I'm not here to make enemies. I've read a few of your posts here and you do seem like you hav a damn good head on your shoulders. I simply thought that making a statement about people who don't believe in abortion yet don't want to adopt is off and from what I've researched impossible to prove one way or the other.

But the thing is, to contradict my statement, you'd need to look for a trend of pro-lifers adopting more frequently than the overall trend. that's the telling number.

Tell me that you found that.

Nothing I said is relevant to the fact that overall adoption is low on average. You need to see the pro-lifers actually stepping up above the expected normal.

 

[zinfamous]

Too many people have glanced over JoS's incredibly cogent argument several posts ago:

non-existence is a state unworthy of being defended

seriously...how can anyone argue anything from a perspective of not having existed?
and why would anyone waste their time defending the "rights of non-existence?"

this is how we know neckbear is 100% troll.

 

[HAL9000]

Like I said it's a straw man of an argument. In order for two things to be compared like you want to do they have to be fundamentally similar in some way. One can not compare one state of existence, being an adopted child, with complete non existence. It's apples and oranges. Every time I jack off into a tissue that's a potential child. So was it better for that sperm to have become an adopted child or not? Well the statement doesn't make any sense.

That's why I'm not asking your sperm, I'm asking you about your existence.

I love how all of HAL's threads follow the exact same pattern. :biggrin:

The value of consistency is not to be underestimated.

 

[bfdd]

HAL, it is IMPOSSIBLE to think about not existing. It literally is, you cannot fucking do it period. Your brain is incapable of that line of thought so what you are asking is actually impossible to answer, let alone the fact like Locut0s says how can you compare two things that are so different?

Also, there's a difference between consistency and a broken record. You sound more like the latter.

 

[HAL9000]

HAL, it is IMPOSSIBLE to think about not existing. It literally is, you cannot fucking do it period. Your brain is incapable of that line of thought so what you are asking is actually impossible to answer, let alone the fact like Locut0s says how can you compare two things that are so different?

Also, there's a difference between consistency and a broken record. You sound more like the latter.

You're over thinking it, the point is that you would never have experienced anything positive or negative. Regardless of what that is like, the question is would you rather have gone through your life as is, but you would have been adopted. Or would you rather have never experienced all the good and bad in your life.

If you don't want to answer, or you find that confusing then that's your problem.

How can you compare things that are so different?

I prefer white chocolate to watching german films.

 

[zinfamous]

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[JulesMaximus]

So, you're asking someone who exists if they are glad they exist? 😕 I'd think most people would answer yes to that question. Ask it again 100 years from now when there are 4 billion more people on the planet and fewer resources and I suspect you might find more who wish they'd never been born.

 

[HAL9000]

So, you're asking someone who exists if they are glad they exist? 😕 I'd think most people would answer yes to that question. Ask it again 100 years from now when there are 4 billion more people on the planet and fewer resources and I suspect you might find more who wish they'd never been born.

Very fair point.

 

[zinfamous]

Very fair point.

so, this point has been addressed many, many times through 300 or so posts in this thread, and only now, you say, "very fair point?"

 

[HAL9000]

so, this point has been addressed many, many times through 300 or so posts in this thread, and only now, you say, "very fair point?"

The point that people might not answer the same when the planets resources have been depleted has not been addressed many many times in this thread AFAIK.