Is Islam the Religion of Peace? Discuss...

[soccerballtux]

SBT is right. We in fact, have JOS acting out this verse for us right here. The world is at war with God, and by default, they are at war with His followers.

who are the followers of God?

"in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."

 

[OCGuy]

Islam? LOL

 

[JEDIYoda]

"in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."

So those who have no clue are going to hell??

 

[soccerballtux]

So those who have no clue are going to hell??

Jesus says salvation is entirely of God's Grace.
If it required intellectual knowledge to enter salvation, then it would not be entirely of grace, but would rather be dependent on knowledge and the person being born into the right family, nation, etc.
So, no.

However, "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and *divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

Regardless, God is completely fair, and if he does something we perceive as unfair, it's because we're not understanding him correctly.

*stare long enough at trees and you'll start to see something otherworldly in them. They're far too glorious for there not to be a God.

 

[spittledip]

who are the followers of God?

Those who accept His Son.

 

[ericlp]

if the champion of the religion says "peace" and the rest of the world interprets that "peace" as "war" (Christians with crusades, for example) does that say that Christianity is "war", or that the people who call themselves Christians, are "war"?

Yes, christains are at war with other religions. But I'm not targeting christains, cathilics etc...etc... but the entire spectrum of religion and it's people. Tho, maybe some of them have looked past the ego... I'm sure that most are stuck in my religion is better then your religion and some are some extreme that they are welling to kill over it to prove a point. But even if they did evolve past that and don't kill you I'm sure the paths to doing so are paved out well.

 

[spittledip]

So those who have no clue are going to hell??

I don't know.

21So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?"

22Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"

 

[Gyhrg71]

dunno. do you think the Allah of the Qu'ran could think up something as beautiful as the female body, or the trees in fall, or the deliciousness of food, yet turn around tell his followers to make the non-followers convert or die after sending someone like Jesus? Do those seem like the same character? Which of those seems truthier?

Do you also feel its far fetched the God of the old testament/Hebrew Bible couldn't have created things you consider beautiful?

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

[bfdd]

I need to write a book and claim to be the last prophet of God. Then I can become a tax exempt person.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

dunno. do you think the Allah of the Qu'ran could think up something as beautiful as the female body, or the trees in fall, or the deliciousness of food, yet turn around tell his followers to make the non-followers convert or die after sending someone like Jesus? Do those seem like the same character? Which of those seems truthier?

If I'm not mistaken Christians claim those who do not accept Jesus as their savior will go to hell. You mean to tell me that people who live a good life and help their fellow man wil go to hell if they don't accept the Christians version of the truth?

Also, the bible doesn't ever claim to be the Word of God. The closest it gets is "inspired by/breathed out by God", which we Christians equated with being "the Word of God".
It was once the Word of God to someone, but is not the Word of God to your soul until God speaks it to your soul. In fact it could be a billboard that God speaks to your soul. The bible is scripture.

I was under the impression that the scriptures in the Bible that are highlighted in red are considered to be the word of God.

 

[TareX]

According to the Qu'ran, did, or did Muhammed not, command his military leaders to fight the infidels until they 1. converted or 2. paid the tax?

(sigh) There he is, making his appearance. Speaking in ignorance, as loud as he can.

There are two types of tax in Islam. The Zakat, and the Jizya.

The Zakat, is mandatory for every capable Muslim. It's a form of charity, accounting for a minimum of %2.5 of your annual income, given to the poor. Only Muslims are required to pay it.

The Jizya, is way, way less than the Zakat. It is mandatory for every non-Muslim in a Muslim country, so long as this country is protected by an all-Muslim army. This tax -much less than the Zakat- is paid in return for being protected by the Muslim army, without joining it.

Only if the army was 100% Islamic (i.e. not a single Christian was in), then Christian men would be able to find jobs and have families right after graduation, in exchange for the Jizya tax, while Muslim men would have to go through the epic waste of time, serving 1-3 years in the army after graduation. Oh, and Muslims would STILL be required to pay the much more expensive Zakat tax.

Both the Jizyah (for non-muslims), and the much more taxing Zakat (for muslims) is waived for individuals/families who cannot afford them.

 

[TareX]

If it's spam then it shouldn't be any problem for you to EASILY discredit what I said about your government or womens rights issues.
The fact that you WON'T (when in fact it's "can't") is all the proof I need.

I'm glad you found the proof you wanted (finally).

PS1 - I replied in this thread; in a lengthy post about women in Islam.
PS2 - What government? The Egyptian government? Yeah don't hold your breath for my defense. I probably agreed with whatever you said about those corrupt scumbags.

 

[peonyu]

Yea great, Muslims tax non-Muslims for not being Muslim. Thats well known, its also more proof that Islam is archaic and oppressive.

 

[maluckey]

I just have to add that pretty much all of the philosiphizing in this entire thread can be summed up and ended with......

"lead by example and stand for what is in the interest of peace, betterment of man, and the world in which he lives."

You can only point your finger until your arms get tired. After that it's not much use and they just hang there.

If you want to explore religion, get it right. I see gaping holes in the arguments on both sides to the point that I believe that neither has a truly adult view on their respective religion. Perhaps it's the Jesuit tinged Catholic upbringing, or the beers that make me chuckle at the absurdities and misinformation presented.

Not all Christians believe that those having no knowlege and acceptance of the Messiah will go to hell. It isn't part of the Catholic belief system, nor in that of many Christian denominations.

Not all belive in predestination. That means to each his own.

I can't speak of the followers of Muhammad, I have no wish to know of him, but I have someone near to me that disagrees with much of the words of the Imams, though he is of the faithful.

Islam as peaceful? Sure, if they live alone in a desert without power, literature, medicine or education....

Christianity as peaceful? Sure if nobody challenges their manifest destiny...

Now if the two could find a middle gound? Just maybe....

 

[TareX]

Yea great, Muslims tax non-Muslims for not being Muslim. Thats well known, its also more proof that Islam is archaic and oppressive.

(sigh)

Did you read what I said? Muslims tax other Muslims MORE than non-Muslims. The non-Muslim tax is waived if the country is protected by a national army, and not an Islamic army.

Was it too long to read? Should I start catering to your PS3-attention span?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

(sigh)

Did you read what I said? Muslims tax other Muslims MORE than non-Muslims. The non-Muslim tax is waived if the country is protected by a national army, and not an Islamic army.

Was it too long to read? Should I start catering to your PS3-attention span?

In practice the Jizya tax has both historically and presently been much higher than the Zakat (lawfully as much as twice of the Zakat) so perhaps you should revise your words up above before anyone can take you seriously?

The taxes both have and are reqired by everyone, not just men of military age but of women, children and elderly too, that is another difference and yes, i know this is the practiced rule but it is the current rule under islamic law in many places.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yea great, Muslims tax non-Muslims for not being Muslim. Thats well known, its also more proof that Islam is archaic and oppressive.

The Zakat is a form of tithing, you can't ask that of non believers but they do need to pay their share if they want the same protection and rights as the believers so Jizya was invented for other "people of the book" so they could enjoy the same rights and protections.

They don't tax them specifically for not being Muslim, they tax them because in a society everyone is expected to do their part, it's the same in the US, isn't it?

 

[Muse]

"The" religion of peace? Well, I think most religions champion peace, including Islam. However I think there's no denying that many Muslims think that violence is justifiable. Well, the same can be said for Christians, Jews, and etc. However, the endemic element of violent terrorism in many regions of the Muslim world is shocking in its intensity and prevalence.

 

[TareX]

In practice the Jizya tax has both historically and presently been much higher than the Zakat (lawfully as much as twice of the Zakat) so perhaps you should revise your words up above before anyone can take you seriously?

The taxes both have and are reqired by everyone, not just men of military age but of women, children and elderly too, that is another difference and yes, i know this is the practiced rule but it is the current rule under islamic law in many places.

That happened AFTER the provisions of Islamic law which exempted the indigent, the invalids and the old were discarded.

By the way, I guess I found your source -very "reliable":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelomo_Dov_Goitein

PS - Muslims not paying Zakat is akin to stealing in Islamic law. AND AGAIN, when Muslims risk their lives in the army to protect you, it makes sense to pay -provided that you can. When ONE non-muslim joins the army, the army becomes national, and the Jizyah is waived.

Again, Zakat is a percentage, which can reach 100x folds that of Jizyah, which is not.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

That happened AFTER the provisions of Islamic law which exempted the indigent, the invalids and the old were discarded.

By the way, I guess I found your source -very "reliable":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelomo_Dov_Goitein

PS - Muslims not paying Zakat is akin to stealing in Islamic law. AND AGAIN, when Muslims risk their lives in the army to protect you, it makes sense to pay -provided that you can. When ONE non-muslim joins the army, the army becomes national, and the Jizyah is waived.

Again, Zakat is a percentage, which can reach 100x folds that of Jizyah, which is not.

That's not my source, my source comes from the Hedaya, it's fucking Islamic law IN PRACTICE.

You really shouldn't assume so much, most of the information i have i get by talking to people right here, in Afghanistan.

 

[routan]

If it's spam then it shouldn't be any problem for you to EASILY discredit what I said about your government or womens rights issues.
The fact that you WON'T (when in fact it's "can't") is all the proof I need.

did i also not address your comments about women rights issues? you just like to keep saying the same things over and over again so that they are viewed as facts?

 

[routan]

"The" religion of peace? Well, I think most religions champion peace, including Islam. However I think there's no denying that many Muslims think that violence is justifiable. Well, the same can be said for Christians, Jews, and etc. However, the endemic element of violent terrorism in many regions of the Muslim world is shocking in its intensity and prevalence.

Any action is justifiable. That includes violence. But justification comes from an individual or group of individuals. Not from the source of information.

A judge can rule abortion is permissible based on his interpretation of the constitution. That does not make his interpretation right.

 

[routan]

That's not my source, my source comes from the Hedaya, it's fucking Islamic law IN PRACTICE.

You really shouldn't assume so much, most of the information i have i get by talking to people right here, in Afghanistan.

Can you please post pics of the people you talk to in Afghanistan who make you literate in Islamic knowledge?

And I mean seriously, are you actually arguing that Afghanistan represents Islamic Law in practice?

People call you JoS. I think PoS is more appropriate.

 

[TareX]

That's not my source, my source comes from the Hedaya, it's fucking Islamic law IN PRACTICE.

You really shouldn't assume so much, most of the information i have i get by talking to people right here, in Afghanistan.

Oh, Afghanistan. Yeah, that's exactly where you want to get your "Islam" information. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Baasha]

My opinion on this subject is that Islam is a religion, just as Christianity or Bhudism or even Judaism. As such there are mostly good people and a few bad people or extremists in all religions.

First, WTF is "Bhudism"?!? 🙄

And secondly, stop lumping the desert religions with the Dharmic traditions of Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism etc.

The latter three do NOT have "bad people", religiously speaking, as you call it because of the underlying philosophy. There have been political struggles among some, may be even ethnic (Sri Lanka for example), but it is not based on religiosity whatsoever. And, any struggle against abrahamic aggressors is NOT "extremism", unless of course you are part of the coterie that thinks retaliation against invaders and instigators is 'extremism' (yay for liberalism!).

The desert religions (judaism, christianity, islam) are founded on exclusivist ideologies and consequently are perennially at loggerheads not only with each other, but with all other religions, peoples etc.

But, to your intent of your OP, it is unequivocally clear what islam is and is not based on the actions (or lack thereof) of the followers. The same can be said about the other two desert religions: judaism/christianity.