Is Islam the Religion of Peace? Discuss...

[soccerballtux]

Pretty sure I said "I don't have the will or the stamina to pursue your spam" -or something to that effect.

I've addressed your "women's rights!" comment here, I believe. Thank you.

If it's spam then it shouldn't be any problem for you to EASILY discredit what I said about your government or womens rights issues.
The fact that you WON'T (when in fact it's "can't") is all the proof I need.

 

[soccerballtux]

All religions have the ability to be twisted around and misinterpretted.

I'm sure you can find plenty of friendly islamic people, and plenty of crazy ones. Same w\ Christians. Plenty of friendly ones out there, also plenty of crazy ones.

Yeah, the difference is the Bible doesn't give any direct commands to out the world of infidels or tax non-believers. The Qu'ran gives standing orders to. Why shouldn't it? Muhammed needed something to convince hoards of people to follow him on his holy crusade as far north as Spain in the 700's+ AD.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Yeah, the difference is the Bible doesn't give any direct commands to out the world of infidels or tax non-believers. The Qu'ran gives standing orders to. Why shouldn't it? Muhammed needed something to convince hoards of people to follow him on his holy crusade as far north as Spain in the 700's+ AD.

So I take it that you're fluent in Arabic? Could you please show everyone these verses? No anti-Muslim sites will be accepted for your proof

 

[soccerballtux]

So I take it that you're fluent in Arabic?

Of course, what was I thinking, it hasn't been translated to english.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Of course, what was I thinking, it hasn't been translated to english.

Where are the verses? Can't find any from a non anti-Muslim site?

 

[soccerballtux]

Of course, what was I thinking, it hasn't been translated to english.

Where are the verses? Can't find any from a non anti-Muslim site?

What, you've never heard of Jizya?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya#Islamic_Law

Maybe I should quote the summary so that everyone can see:

Hadith sources

Jizya is mentioned a number of times in the hadith. Common themes across multiple hadith (and often multiple collections of hadith) include Muhammad ordering his military commanders to fight non-Muslims until they accepted Islam or paid the jizya, Muhammad and a number of caliphs imposing jizya on various peoples

Also, perhaps you've never heard of "Battle of Tours"/Charles Martel/125 miles from Paris"
don't you understand? This was just the start of it. Muslim persecution of Christians began to take hold, Al-Hakim (sixth Fatimid caliph in Cairo) was a great example of this. He later declared himself to be the incarnation of God. This neurotic leader destroyed the Church of the Nativity and removed the Christians' freedom of worship.
First crusades were right on the tale of his leadership (he died in 1021). CAN'T IMAGINE WHY we had the crusades lol.

I'll leave you with a quote from the Quran-- Surah Al-Nisa 4:34

Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other... So good women are then obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them.

Sahih Al-Bukhari vol. 3:826--

Mohammed asked some women, 'Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half that of a man?' The women said 'yes'. He said, 'This is because of the deficiency of the woman's mind'.

also--
Mohammed said, (vol. 1:28, 301; vol. 2:161, Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 7:124)

'I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women'

Your chosen-ignorance is pathetic.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Never seen this tax in any Muslim country I've visited/lived.

Why have 5 Muslim countries elected a female President or Prime Minister and the US can't make that claim. Seems like the US is prejudiced toward females.

 

[soccerballtux]

Never seen this tax in any Muslim country I've visited/lived.

According to the Qu'ran, did, or did Muhammed not, command his military leaders to fight the infidels until they 1. converted or 2. paid the tax?

According to the Qu'an, are women not worth half as much as men?

So, you would agree these muslim "nations" are being consistent with Islam. Oh wait they're not. Good to know.

/thread

 

[Londo_Jowo]

According to the Qu'ran, did, or did Muhammed not, command his military leaders to fight the infidels until they 1. converted or 2. paid the tax?

According to the Qu'an, are women not worth half as much as men?

So, you would agree these muslim "nations" are being inconsistent with Islam.

No, from everything I understand they are living their lives by what the Qu'ran actually says versus what you think it says.

 

[soccerballtux]

Never seen this tax in any Muslim country I've visited/lived.

Way to change the topic, did you yourself not write the following?

Where are the verses? Can't find any from a non anti-Muslim site?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Way to change the topic, did you yourself not write the following?

Yes and you haven't shown me any verses that can be definitively proven to be the truth.

 

[soccerballtux]

No, from everything I understand they are living their lives by what the Qu'ran actually says versus what you think it says.

Yes and you haven't shown me any verses that can be definitively proven to be the truth.

I guess that list of 20 verses on wikipedia are all wrong. LOL. What a denier.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I guess that list of 20 verses on wikipedia are all wrong. LOL. What a denier.

I can go into Wikipedia and change any portion I want. Wikipedia is based on opinions.

 

[soccerballtux]

I can go into Wikipedia and change any portion I want. Wikipedia is based on opinions.

Then it should be very easy for you to disprove those verses.
The fact that you're not, tells us many things, one of which is that you are wrong.

 

[busydude]

Wikipedia is based on opinions.

So are all the religious books. They are just opinions.

 

[AstroManLuca]

The problem with Islam as it is currently practiced today is that there aren't just "a few bad apples", the whole fucking orchard is rotten.

I agree with this. I was hearing about that Pakistani politician who was assassinated for having the gall to speak out against the death penalty for blasphemers. And how there were then protests in the country SUPPORTING HIS KILLER.

So essentially their country is filled with people who SUPPORT violent retribution against those who insult their religion. And that's the case with most Muslim nations. Print anything critical of Islam and they freak the fuck out. And those actions just further Western notions of Islam being a violent religion.

I don't know anything about the Koran. Maybe it's really similar to the Bible, maybe it's not, I don't honestly care. The point is that Islam has more than a few bad apples.

It's sad too because the Middle East used to be the most scientifically-oriented region of the world, but now they're vehemently against all forms of scientific, political, and social progress.

And people wonder why Pakistan had trouble getting donations after their terrible floods last year. Fifty thousand people marching in support of a ruthless murderer is why. Get rid of that shit and we'll talk.

 

[soccerballtux]

I agree with this. I was hearing about that Pakistani politician who was assassinated for having the gall to speak out against the death penalty for blasphemers. And how there were then protests in the country SUPPORTING HIS KILLER.

So essentially their country is filled with people who SUPPORT violent retribution against those who insult their religion. And that's the case with most Muslim nations. Print anything critical of Islam and they freak the fuck out. And those actions just further Western notions of Islam being a violent religion.

I don't know anything about the Koran. Maybe it's really similar to the Bible, maybe it's not, I don't honestly care. The point is that Islam has more than a few bad apples.

It's sad too because the Middle East used to be the most scientifically-oriented region of the world, but now they're vehemently against all forms of scientific, political, and social progress.

And people wonder why Pakistan had trouble getting donations after their terrible floods last year. Fifty thousand people marching in support of a ruthless murderer is why. Get rid of that shit and we'll talk.

Wow I never heard of this, why doesn't our media report on it?

 

[AstroManLuca]

Wow I never heard of this, why doesn't our media report on it?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/01/201119131549923392.html

I heard about it on NPR.

EDIT: It's pretty likely that in the wake of the murder of a liberal voice that the more liberal people are laying low. Someone gets killed for denouncing a blasphemy law, I doubt anyone's going to follow in his footsteps.

Still, it does show that there are enough people who support such a law (and who furthermore support murdering anyone who takes steps to change it) to stage large protests. We don't know exactly what percentage of the population is like this but it seems to be a large enough segment to not qualify as a "small radical fringe."

 

[busydude]

Wow I never heard of this, why doesn't our media report on it?

Pakistan was divided after assassination.. and media did report it. Its not like the whole country was supporting the killer, but there are definite signs that pakistan is turning more and more into an extremist state.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2041558,00.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12124761

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Then it should be very easy for you to disprove those verses.
The fact that you're not, tells us many things, one of which is that you are wrong.

No, the burden of proof is on you. You haven't shown me anything.

 

[airdata]

Yeah, the difference is the Bible doesn't give any direct commands to out the world of infidels or tax non-believers. The Qu'ran gives standing orders to. Why shouldn't it? Muhammed needed something to convince hoards of people to follow him on his holy crusade as far north as Spain in the 700's+ AD.

The bible is also edited and I don't think ever fully translated.

 

[soccerballtux]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/01/201119131549923392.html

I heard about it on NPR.

EDIT: It's pretty likely that in the wake of the murder of a liberal voice that the more liberal people are laying low. Someone gets killed for denouncing a blasphemy law, I doubt anyone's going to follow in his footsteps.

Still, it does show that there are enough people who support such a law (and who furthermore support murdering anyone who takes steps to change it) to stage large protests. We don't know exactly what percentage of the population is like this but it seems to be a large enough segment to not qualify as a "small radical fringe."

if only they would keep it up the libs would have to admit defeat.

 

[soccerballtux]

The bible is also edited and I don't think ever fully translated.

hm I haven't heard this before, which parts aren't fully translated?

Note that I'm not supporting the crusades, just pointing out why they started. Like all men, the men in power at that time were unable to walk in the footsteps of peace that Jesus taught.

 

[bfdd]

Never seen this tax in any Muslim country I've visited/lived.

Why have 5 Muslim countries elected a female President or Prime Minister and the US can't make that claim. Seems like the US is prejudiced toward females.

Oh yeah well can they say they elected a Muslim? oh wait....

 

[Scotteq]

The bible is also edited and I don't think ever fully translated.

hm I haven't heard this before, which parts aren't fully translated?

Translation, I think is a bit of a stretch... I'm pretty sure that the huge majority of intact/reliable sources have been translated into any number of languages over the last couple thousand years.


OTOH - Different Catholic sects can, and *do* decide which books they feel are important and which are not. hence, there are a number of different canonized versions of Biblical verse. Ready examples being the "Old Testament", "New Testament", and the various Lutheran and Protestant versions of the Bible.

Wiki isn't the greatest source, but there are some decent charts in this one showing which books are canonized in which sects: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon


Non~Canonized verse is often referred to as 'The Apocrypha'