Is Intel too expensive?

[SiliconWars]

If AMD was capacity constrained, why did Intel bribe OEM's (a total that could possibly be up to $10 billion), to not use AMD products?

Surely if AMD was already constrained, there was no need for bribery because they wouldn't have been able to provide the products anyway? That's just logic so either Intel had a serious logic failure or AMD wasn't constrained as badly as you believe.

 

[ShintaiDK]

If AMD was capacity constrained, why did Intel bribe OEM's (a total that could possibly be up to $10 billion), to not use AMD products?

Surely if AMD was already constrained, there was no need for bribery because they wouldn't have been able to provide the products anyway? That's just logic so either Intel had a serious logic failure or AMD wasn't constrained as badly as you believe.

So AMD also lie about being capacity constrained now?

 

[SiliconWars]

And how did AMD fare?



If? So you were unaware of AMD's capacity supply problems at the time?

And you don't seem to understand that rebates aren't bribes and are in fact a common business practice in many industries.

So you question is no more than why was Intel engaging in a common business practice.


Rebates aren't bribes and AMD tried to bribe HP by offering them a Million free CPU's.

Due to lack of customer demand, HP only took about 160,000 free CPU's from AMD.

Once again, you seem to be missing the point that intel was fined for these "rebates" as you call them.

That was purely an operation designed to prove that HP was in Intel's pocket.

And again, if AMD are so badly constrained as you claim, where the hell did they find a million cpu's to just give away for free?

 

[CHADBOGA]

It was pretty obvious that AMD was constrained. Everyone reported so as well. And you could see AMDs fab utilization.

Even AMD stated it themselves from the PR department:

As the great ElmerPhud wrote on this issue:

What I am enjoying is the befuddlement of those who have embraced a fabrication by AMD management with cult like religious fervor.

The conspiracy theories which demand the willing cooperation of IBM, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Sun, Toshiba, Microsoft, Samsung etc to exclude someone who is one of their suppliers anyway.

The notion that Intel could force those industry giants to join in illegal practices is easier for cult members to believe than that AMD just simply screwed up.

This should be a case study of cult worship and denial that will be studied for years in Psychology classes across the country. Jim Jones step aside.​

 

[Nemesis 1]

Once again, you seem to be missing the point that intel was fined for these "rebates" as you call them.

HP were never offered a million AMD cpu's, that was Dell. That was purely an operation designed to prove that Dell was in Intel's pocket.

And again, if AMD are so badly constrained as you claim, where the hell did they find a million cpu's to just give away for free?

It was after Conroe was released . AMD had plenity of useless AMDx2 and AMD64ers to give away/ Nice try . check timeline

 

[tweakboy]

Intel prices are fine. 500 for second top chip. and 1k for top desktop chip.

Those are goodo prices..... how about 14 years ago , now that was too expensive and you got crapola for it. 128MB ram P2 the works... lol

 

[ShintaiDK]

HP were never offered a million AMD cpu's, that was Dell.

It was actually HP.

in a contemporaneous e-mail quoted below in this recital, shows that AMD was not in a position to offer a compensating rebate of the size required by HP. However, in order to seek to accommodate HP's concern, AMD offered HP one million x86 CPUs for free.

Note that AMD also offered rebates. Just not willing to do the same rebate.

 

[SiliconWars]

It was actually HP.

Yep I already edited my post, my bad.

http://www.euchinacomp.org/attachments/article/143/PPT2-Kirs-Intel Microsoft Cases.pdf (scroll down to 2nd half)

HP confirms that the reason was the market share limit (for only accepting 160k free cpu's)

Some good info on what actually constitutes a rebate in that, some of you might want to read it through for the difference on what Intel was doing.

Email from Intel executive
“There is so much ingrained 'bad habits' and inertia that has developed over the past decade (which has been hidden/tolerated because we've
had a money printing machine with really no competition until recently)”

All Intel cared about was getting that money printing machine back, even if it cost them $billions to get back to that state, that's what they'd do.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Look when reading anything online you have to be aware . That most people are motivated by self gain . Read about Intel GT3e and the reasons given why people doubt its performance . Lets say its 3x better than the HD4000. I can say without a doubt that that will cut into AMD/NV graphics business. Amd has to responed they comme out with something more powerful and efficient . Intel replies with Broadwell gt4e graphics . At this point the sales are at such a point in discrete that sales can't match R&D pushing the price of discrete well above $500 . AMD ends up killing discrete isn't that perfect?

 

[grimpr]

AMD ends up killing discrete isn't that perfect?

Lol, wont happen! Tell your Intel friends to produce some decent drivers instead of the crap they shoot out for their igps and then sadistically make fun of AMDs graphics division demise.:biggrin:

 

[Phynaz]

I voted no.

A 3570K costs as much as a good dinner for two.

 

[Idontcare]

Yes and in all corners of the globe, governments seem to be disagreeing with what intels idea of a "rebate" is.

The same governments clamor to bribe semiconductor companies to build fabs in their regions by way of subsidizing the semiconductor companies with their constituency's tax-dollars.

People like bribery when they think it will benefit them, they dislike the practice as soon as it works against them.

How would you like to be a TSMC sales rep living in New York, paying state taxes all while knowing your taxes are higher than they need to be because the state decided to bribe your employer's competitor (Global Foundries) with tax rebates so that GloFo would build a fab or two in the state (to better compete against your employer).

To TSMC employees the actions by the NY government are anti-competitive, they are bribery that works against TSMC's best interests.

And yet to everyone else who stands to financially gain by GloFo building fabs in NY, the tax incentives are simply "smart business".

It always comes down to who is getting their bread buttered by whom. Butter my bread and I will call your scheme a legitimate rebate program, butter my enemy's bread and I will call your scheme to be bribery and anti-competitive coercion.

 

[nemesismk2]

Wrong.

have you seen the difference between amd and intel prices in the uk?

 

[ShintaiDK]

have you seen the difference between amd and intel prices in the uk?

It wasnt long ago that toms showed AMD not having a single product to match Intel in price/performance, tho the istuation have changed alittle since. But there aint many products where AMD actually can actually compete on price/performance.

Also why you see AMD with a -37% YoY in their CPU division.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I live in the greater Albany area and boy everyone is sure happy about GloFo around here.

I guess it all depends on your perspective.

 

[SiliconWars]

The same governments clamor to bribe semiconductor companies to build fabs in their regions by way of subsidizing the semiconductor companies with their constituency's tax-dollars.

People like bribery when they think it will benefit them, they dislike the practice as soon as it works against them.

New jobs created, competition created. I call that a good deal for most people.

How would you like to be a TSMC sales rep living in New York, paying state taxes all while knowing your taxes are higher than they need to be because the state decided to bribe your employer's competitor (Global Foundries) with tax rebates so that GloFo would build a fab or two in the state (to better compete against your employer).

I would rather see it as the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few. I don't really see how this compares to intel's bribery where the majority (consumers and legit OEM's) are being harmed and only Intel and a few choice OEM's are profiting?

It always comes down to who is getting their bread buttered by whom. Butter my bread and I will call your scheme a legitimate rebate program, butter my enemy's bread and I will call your scheme to be bribery and anti-competitive coercion.

The difference being GF's tax rebates for creating jobs are in fact legitimate while intel's bribery isn't? I don't even know how you can start to compare the two.

 

[sm625]

When you can go down to the local dollar store and literally buy a $50 android tablet that can do 90% of what you need it to do, albeit a wee bit slowly... then obviously yes intel is way wayy wayyyyy too expensive. Sure, I'm being a little dramatic, and sure there are some catches to that $50 tablet. But the whole point is that its such a close call. You can almost get by on a $50 throwaway tablet. Throw in a keyboard, a mouse, and external display, and you got a pc. All of it is a result of years of overpricing by intel.

 

[Dribble]

The i5 ???K processors that come out every generation are both very fast and pretty cheap - they are all you need so no intel is not expensive.

 

[grimpr]

I voted no.

A 3570K costs as much as a good dinner for two.

Tell that to the employees or owners of the 30+ shops closing per day in UK or the victims of the economic crisis in EU. Looks like some folks in these forums with Intel stock portfolios and 150.000$ per year income live in a bubble world.

 

[Insomniator]

Tell that to the employees or owners of the 30+ shops closing per day in UK or the victims of the economic crisis in EU. Looks like some folks in these forums with Intel stock portfolios and 150.000$ per year income live in a bubble world.

..What?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Lol, wont happen! Tell your Intel friends to produce some decent drivers instead of the crap they shoot out for their igps and then sadistically make fun of AMDs graphics division demise.:biggrin:

Give me a break. Sadistically in this case applies only to your reply. For ever action there is an equal and oppisite reaction . If Igpu/APU grapgics suddenly become good enough by both Intel /AMD . Do you not think that will have an impact on the discrete sales and game makers/ That tablet gamer razer showed is going to be a great success with both intel GT3e graphics and NV graphics , This tablet design is a winner. But I think its just the beginning. because of radio I see very powerful bases being used to power unwired game stations like the razer tablet. Its a wide open market for the players that do it the most efficiently.

 

[SiliconWars]

I think the point is, most normal people would consider paying $230 for a "good dinner for two" to be somewhat excessive.

 

[ShintaiDK]

When you can go down to the local dollar store and literally buy a $50 android tablet that can do 90% of what you need it to do, albeit a wee bit slowly... then obviously yes intel is way wayy wayyyyy too expensive. Sure, I'm being a little dramatic, and sure there are some catches to that $50 tablet. But the whole point is that its such a close call. You can almost get by on a $50 throwaway tablet. Throw in a keyboard, a mouse, and external display, and you got a pc. All of it is a result of years of overpricing by intel.

Google´s Acer Intel Chromebook with a Celeron 847 for 199$.

 

[SiliconWars]

Give me a break. Sadistically in this case applies only to your reply. For ever action there is an equal and oppisite reaction . If Igpu/APU grapgics suddenly become good enough by both Intel /AMD . Do you not think that will have an impact on the discrete sales and game makers/ That tablet gamer razer showed is going to be a great success with both intel GT3e graphics and NV graphics , This tablet design is a winner. But I think its just the beginning. because of radio I see very powerful bases being used to power unwired game stations like the razer tablet. Its a wide open market for the players that do it the most efficiently.

IGP graphics are already good enough for the majority of people. The enthusiast market was always small and will continue to shrink because good enough has been reached/lack of innovation.

AMD would not mind if the discrete gpu died as they would have a real chance vs intel simply due to superior graphical perf/watt. The more TDP spent on graphics, the further ahead AMD would be. As a nice bonus, Nvidia would be in a world of pain.

 

[ShintaiDK]

IGP graphics are already good enough for the majority of people. The enthusiast market was always small and will continue to shrink because good enough has been reached/lack of innovation.

AMD would not mind if the discrete gpu died as they would have a real chance vs intel simply due to superior graphical perf/watt. The more TDP spent on graphics, the further ahead AMD would be. As a nice bonus, Nvidia would be in a world of pain.

And then reality called?

You do know that discrete cards account for almost a third of AMDs revenue?

AMDs only, and somewhat very limited, success is the discrete market. They lose money on their CPU division.