is intel screwing 975 buyers with gulftown price tags?

[VirtualLarry]

- The 975 and Gulftown pricing situation is not new. Intel has priced its latest-and-greatest CPU at the $1000 mark (or higher) for a long time, and the 2nd-latest-and-greatest is usually around half of the price. This, again, is not new for Gulftown and 975.

AMD is no saint either when it comes to pricing. When their Athlon 64 X2 4800+ S939 chip was tops in performance on the market, they priced it at $1001 at intro, according to the AT article on it.

 

[Arkaign]

Thank the remarkers that were the rage in the late '90's. Now that a cpu can be positively identified via software there is no need to lock the cpu down. Of course if all chips were unlocked it would kill the EE market. Both Intel and AMD are well aware of this.

Speaking of remarking I remember well someone asking me to look at their PC. It was a Pentium 100 running Windows 95. It was getting blue screens and freezing. The cooler was fine and the insides were perfectly clean. When I pulled off the cpu cooler besides no grease I was greeted with an Intel Pentium 75! The system was jumpered to run at 66 MHz front side bus instead of 50! In 1995 a Pentium 100 CPU was top of the line and cost a couple $100 more than the more mainstream P75 version. An few hundred bucks profit straight into the builder's pocket. Without physical inspection of the hardware there would be no way to tell.

Even worse were actual re-marking of cpu parts where they were physically ground and re-engraved with new numbers to match faster counterparts. These were indistinguishable from the real thing and the counterfeit market was born. Intel stepped in and started locking cpus starting with the newer P55C and of course all Pentium IIs and up and it's been that way since.

Great post. Just one thing though : early P2s were unlocked (in my experience, all the 233s and 266s I tried were unlocked)

 

[Rubycon]

Great post. Just one thing though : early P2s were unlocked (in my experience, all the 233s and 266s I tried were unlocked)

Klammath may have been unlocked both ways. I never owned one because I thought there was no advantage going to slot 1 from socket 8. Long live the Pentium Pro!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Great post. Just one thing though : early P2s were unlocked (in my experience, all the 233s and 266s I tried were unlocked)

It was the PII-350 that was partially locked, and then later PIIs were fully locked.

"Partially locked" meant that different multis were available, depending on whether the bus was 66mhz or 100mhz (there was a pin, B21, that indicate that).

It was the mighty PII SL2W8 300Mhz that could be unlocked to a 450 by taping over pin B21 with some scotch tape, or if you had an Abit mobo with "Soft jumpers", like I did.

 

[Rubycon]

It was the PII-350 that was partially locked, and then later PIIs were fully locked.

"Partially locked" meant that different multis were available, depending on whether the bus was 66mhz or 100mhz (there was a pin, B21, that indicate that).

It was the mighty PII SL2W8 300Mhz that could be unlocked to a 450 by taping over pin B21 with some scotch tape, or if you had an Abit mobo with "Soft jumpers", like I did.

We used nail polish and a minuscule camel hair brush to isolate B21. Those were the days!

 

[mutz]

No one is manipulating anyone.

yeah, everybody & everything is fare and legal,
that's why eventually they're being sued at court.

You have no idea how much you are.

you don't seem to understand the OP saying, just mumbling this authoritative meaningless farce.

You wouldn't happen to be a communist/socialist would you?

this isn't quite u'r business,
if you don't want to take part in this talk,
you can stay aside.

Life isn't always fair, and it will never be

you don't necessarily understand much about life.
life isn't about business, isn't about winning or about making money & success either,
life is about being humble, being human,
life is all about love and relationship of one with himself and others, not the romantic kind.

were talking about relationship, commitment, sincerity, society,
life.

if that puts you in the poor house, you're a complete fool, and there's probably no help for you.

this is quite exaggerated, other words can be thought of and sampled, there is no reason to go these lines, no one is trying to sting u or anyone, please rethink u'r words before pressing the buttons, try and keeping it respectful
and polite.

 

[zsdersw]

yeah, everybody & everything is fare and legal,
that's why eventually they're being sued at court.

They're not being sued for offering some CPUs at $1000 or more and the rest at far less.. and that's what this is about, not other Intel-related matters.

just mumbling this authoritative meaningless farce.

Says the pot to the kettle.

this isn't quite u'r business,
if you don't want to take part in this talk,
you can stay aside.

Nice avoidance of answering the question.

you don't necessarily understand much about life.
life isn't about business, isn't about winning or about making money & success either,
life is about being humble, being human,
life is all about love and relationship of one with himself and others, not the romantic kind.

Then talk about life, not the business of products and pricing structures.

were talking about relationship, commitment, sincerity, society,
life.

No, you were initially talking about Intel's CPU pricing and how it's supposedly "unfair" and "screwing buyers", then when it was demonstrated how silly such a claim is, you changed the subject to be more about life and karma, and kept bloviating on and on and on, ad nauseum.

this is quite exaggerated, other words can be thought of and sampled, there is no reason to go these lines, no one is trying to sting u or anyone, please rethink u'r words before pressing the buttons, try and keeping it respectful
and polite.

Another classic avoidance of responding to what was presented.

 

[Zap]

We used nail polish and a minuscule camel hair brush to isolate B21. Those were the days!

Heh, I used electrical tape to run Celeron 300a chips at 450MHz on some Shuttle BX chipset boards.

 

[mutz]

just mumbling this authoritative meaningless farce.

Says the pot to the kettle.

is it because you say someone is right or wrong that makes him/her so..?
ain't getting what pot to kettle means, anyway's,

just mumbling this authoritative meaningless farce.

this is right.

Nice avoidance of answering the question.

it isn't quite yours or anyone else's business and isn't quite related to the subject, you just don't seem to understand it.
for you being happy and relaxed about it,
no,
the writer isn't a communist nor socialist, nor of any other classified kind.

Then talk about life, not the business of products and pricing structures.

this is all related, isn't it?!

No, you were initially talking about Intel's CPU pricing and how it's supposedly "unfair" and "screwing buyers", then when it was demonstrated how silly such a claim is,

it wasn't quite demonstrated,
and actually, it came to a point were people are saying, that these companies can do it, for all sort of reasons,
some others have said they're doing it, worth mentioning.

Another classic avoidance of responding to what was presented.

just couldn't see the point in the argument, only someone treating the other like a clueless child.

 

[waffleironhead]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

No, intel is not screwing anyone. Anyone willing to spend the money on the cpu is getting what they want at the price they want. If they didnt they wouldn't buy it. I'm thinking that the only ones getting "screwed" are the people who think they cost too much, but as long as people are willing to buy them at the specified price then they have no reason to lower them.

So the initial question was quite childish as it was completely ignorant of any economic reasoning.

 

[Plimogz]

they could've taken few hundreds less knowing the hex core is soon to arrive..

I don't know mutz, top-end consumer grade CPUs seem to cost in the neighborhood of 1K$, for whatever reason. The 975, like you yourself said, cost roughly that much, as did the QX6850, the FX-60 (and the FX-57, before it's price was dropped to accomodate the introduction of its replacement) the Pentium 4 Extreme(ly expensive) Editions, etc... to name but a few.

All of these processors were, for a time at least, at the high-end of the performance spectrum and were priced accordingly (ie. Low-volume, high-margin SKUs). If you consider that it's not uncommon for these chips to carry price premiums of 30% or more, while only affording performance increases in the low teens (if that), you might see that the high-end is always overpriced (in terms of bang-per-buck) and thus invariably depreciates incredibly fast. Can this situation be thought of as Intel screwing over its costumers? I personally don't think it can, if only because it is a well understood and documented practice, if not quite a well regarded one.

As to the precise situation decribed in the OP, namely the transition from Nahalem 975 to Gulftown (980X?), at the very least I'd say that it'll bring more in terms of augmented CPU power than the previous transition from 965->975 (both of which cost 999$ at the time that they were Intel's flagship, btw).

That FWIW is my long-winded way of answering NO to your original query.

 

[mutz]

o.k, lets sum it,
Intel seems to have it's own pricing and view of the market,
this thread has gone too long,

No, intel is not screwing anyone. Anyone willing to spend the money on the cpu is getting what they want at the price they want. If they didnt they wouldn't buy it. I'm thinking that the only ones getting "screwed" are the people who think they cost too much, but as long as people are willing to buy them at the specified price then they have no reason to lower them.

So the initial question was quite childish as it was completely ignorant of any economic reasoning.

this wasn't quite the queried perspective, intel or amd ain't hiding any information from the customers nor selling them any defective or untested goods,
the question was more whether they intently play with on going flow of the market to harvest extra fundings,
i don't think it's childish, it's just that this kind of playing (irrelevant of the economical situation of the clients) doesn't seem right,
it is obvious businesses are responding to markets, reducing prices at occasions and adding at others, though this specific method seems a bit too power hungry and aggressive.
i'm not complaining about that, and it does seem a bit petty when it concerns only 2 chips a year though if they are doing that, it is corrupted.

on the other side, intel and such companies are selling hi end accessories for higher price cause they can get such for it, whether this kind of strategy is "pocket responsive" or whether they should lower prices and get extra customers from the mid-range market, it's not quite anyone else business but the companies, that's they're right, that's they're chips which they sell and they can charge as much as they see right for it.

anyway Plimogz,
i think basically the companies are playing with the market, and part of having a monopoly, is the luxurious ability to do it well.
the transition from the 965 to the 975 is quite strange, as these CPU's are being sold at the same prices, where the 975 are supposedly a bit better, and ~1/2 year newer.
the 980EX should lower both of their prices,
who is going to offer the same price for a 4/8 vs 6/12 ?

the only thing that seems dubious, is the release of a 6 core CPU after these at the same pricing,
going 32nm from 45, 6 cores, a new wave in the desktop market, this is highlight,
same price..
no-one knew that before buying a 975 2 or 3 month's ago, they were talking about 1200$-1500$ at the review sites...
maybe intel is doing something there,
but you know what..?,

maybe in 3 month when they come out,
it'd seem all right .

 

[Gillbot]

We used nail polish and a minuscule camel hair brush to isolate B21. Those were the days!

Packing tape and an xacto knife.

 

[Rubycon]

Packing tape and an xacto knife.

Yes and if you were brave you could take the tip of that xacto and cut the trace! But if you wanted to revert it would be rather difficult!

I liked my Abit BX6 jumperless BIOS. Flaky board though with Linksys adapter! Sometimes the board would not power on period and you had to remove power AND remove the NIC and POST, put everything back together and it would be fine for a week then repeat.

Asus P2BF and later P3BF were the final nails in the ABIT coffin.

In 2000 I had a 700 coppermine doing 933 with a TEC. That was fun. PCs are (too) easy now. Of course if they allowed me to have water who knows what I would have.

 

[Gillbot]

Asus P3V4X FTW! I topped that board out at 166FSB with a PIII 933 running at 1162, and I know it would have gone higher had the board supported it!

 

[zsdersw]

is it because you say someone is right or wrong that makes him/her so..?

No, but if you can't see that you're misguided at best and completely wrong at worst, there's no hope for you.

ain't getting what pot to kettle means, anyway's,

The pot accuses the kettle of being black.. when they're both black.

it isn't quite yours or anyone else's business and isn't quite related to the subject, you just don't seem to understand it.
for you being happy and relaxed about it,
no,
the writer isn't a communist nor socialist, nor of any other classified kind.

You may not be of any particular socioeconomic persuasion, but one thing that is quite obvious.. is that you're a fool and just like to listen to yourself talk (or, in this case, see yourself post on an Internet forum).

this is all related, isn't it?!

Relation doesn't mean they work the same way.

it wasn't quite demonstrated,
and actually, it came to a point were people are saying, that these companies can do it, for all sort of reasons,
some others have said they're doing it, worth mentioning.

Of course it was demonstrated. If business, which by nature is designed to make money, is "screwing" people by pricing their best items at the highest prices, then you're anti-business. You want business to almost give away their products because it's good karma or whatever. You don't think businesses should make much money at all in profit, if any.

Businesses make a profit so they can invest in the business by improving their products, adding more products, and hiring more people.. and pay their existing employees more to keep them happy and with the company. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

just couldn't see the point in the argument, only someone treating the other like a clueless child.

Stop providing evidence that you're a clueless child and I'll stop treating you as such.

Guys, you both (zsdersw and mutz) need to tone this down, before we get some vacations going.

PLEASE

Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

 

[VirtualLarry]

Even Jesus said something about "never deny a man his fair profit". Is intel's pricing structure "fair"? I don't know, but I think that Intel would change it if it was something that the market couldn't bear. It's not just Intel either, like I mentioned before, AMD did it too, when they had the high-end chip on the market, the X2 4800+ S939 cpu.

Given that you can buy an i7 920, and overclock it (fairly easily, no?) to 4Ghz, and pay $200 for that priviledge, I think Intel is being more than fair.

 

[Arkaign]

Even Jesus said something about "never deny a man his fair profit". Is intel's pricing structure "fair"? I don't know, but I think that Intel would change it if it was something that the market couldn't bear. It's not just Intel either, like I mentioned before, AMD did it too, when they had the high-end chip on the market, the X2 4800+ S939 cpu.

Given that you can buy an i7 920, and overclock it (fairly easily, no?) to 4Ghz, and pay $200 for that priviledge, I think Intel is being more than fair.

It's just the price for the best at the time. Athlon FX was ungodly expensive when it came out as well, they ranged between $730 at launch all the way up to $1,031 for the FX-60.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2668

People with lower-end overclocked X2's were more than the equal to the FX chips, it was just a little trickier getting there. Ditto the bleeding-edge top-end Intel chips.

Complaining about the high price of the max cpu is stupid.

 

[mutz]

zsdersw

we seem to be talking about two different things,
i don't think you got the OP pov.
above that,
just get a grip on yourself,
you'r quite out of line.

Complaining about the high price of the max cpu is stupid.

it wasn't complaining and it wasn't about the 999$ tag,
if you'll go few pages back,
you'll see the OP saying they're quite worth the price

.

 

[zsdersw]

we seem to be talking about two different things,

Only because you refuse to be pinned down to talking about only one thing.

just get a grip on yourself,

You first.

 

[zsdersw]

Here's the important part of the original post in this thread:

they could've taken few hundreds less knowing the hex core is soon to arrive..

Right there, you displayed disappointment with the price tag. Why, exactly, should Intel "take a few hundred less"? Because you think they shouldn't want to make so much profit? Isn't that all a bit silly?

 

[waffleironhead]

we seem to be talking about two different things,
i don't think you got the OP pov.
above that,
just get a grip on yourself,
you'r quite out of line.


it wasn't complaining and it wasn't about the 999$ tag,
if you'll go few pages back,
you'll see the OP saying they're quite worth the price

.

Now I am confused, are not you the OP? Or are you one of those people who speak of themselves in third person.

 

[mutz]

Now I am confused, are not you the OP? Or are you one of those people who speak of themselves in third person.

both, yet not exactly, sometimes it's more accurate speaking of oneself in third person, it just shows the insignificance of that 'individual'.

Only because you refuse to be pinned down to talking about only one thing.

still,
you refuse to understand, i think it's called self humility, yet it is possible that the subject wasn't put up correctly,
anyway there are some differences that it's better not to discussed currently.

You first.

it's possible that the main argument regarding the pricing wasn't too obvious, and wasn't put up correctly.

Because you think they shouldn't want to make so much profit?

i was actually concerned at whether they can create more profit or same as they already make by reducing prices for the EE chips, allowing more customers to buy them while generating dual profit both for them and the supposed buyers.
are you thinking that the OP is some kind of an interested person?
you seem to find something bad in everything that being said,
it seems as if i'll tell you hallo or how are you,
u'll immediately start thinking 'why is he asking that? where this person is going with that?, what are his interests?'
is that so?
it shouldn't if it is.

Right there, you displayed disappointment with the price tag.

why are u so protective about Intel?

look actually, after taking another look at the next products to arrive, it isn't that bad,
considering that the company has let out the 965 about at Q4, 2008 and brought the 975 1/2 a year later where it could be taken as a sort of later stepping for the 965, then it's alright, they're doing quite fine,
considering they'll bring the 980XE, at march, it comes to about 5 quarters later,
they seem to release a new set of 6 core Xeon's at the same time, that too add to it and makes it seem normal,
to make it even more, they didn't take a dime off the 965 price, even though the 975 has been released few month's later with minor upgrades.
this is quite answering the thread original search,
they're not screwing anyone around,
at least, not at the 965/975/980XE part.
i'm actually quite glad at Intel being a leader at that market,
they make such great products, even older CPU's are still working horses,
generally now it seems better, the whole suing both for Intel and MS makes you very much suspicious for every movement going in the market,
you can never know what these businesses are doing behind your back, quite all they're agenda is about taking people's money,
that's why they can hardly be trusted.
it's good to question, no harm is done by that,
except u might be called a fool and all other sort of other sweeties of that kind .

 

[zsdersw]

You are the OP... why do you refer to the OP as someone other than you?

 

[waffleironhead]

You are the OP... why do you refer to the OP as someone other than you?

Split personality disorder? That way he can get away with the constant changes to what he really intended despite the posts to the contrary.

I have heard certain cultures are quite adept at circular reasoning. They run you in enough circles till you either forget what you were talking about or leave from frustration.