Is infrastructure the next crisis for the USA ?

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: her209
Sounds like its should be paid for and maintained at the state government level, not federal.

EDIT: Except for the electrical grid.

no

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: misle

Originally posted by: spacejamz
I hope the people who died in the MIN bridge collapse a few years back didnt die in vain but since that is old news now, they are pretty much all but forgetten until the next bridge collapses...

The NTSB has cited a design flaw as the likely cause of the collapse, and asserted that additional weight on the bridge at the time of the collapse contributed to the failure.

It was a design flaw, not lack of maintenance, that caused the collapse.

Edit: It should be mentioned that it was in bad shape and needed to be replaced according to inspection reports.

It was both.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_(material)

If maintained the problem would have been found and fixed.

It was a design flaw as well that accelerated the effects of fatigue. Sure there are ways to catch it, but it's tough.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Just have private companies provide infrastructure. The free markets will solve everything. It has worked great for our lines of communication/internet.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Just have private companies provide infrastructure. The free markets will solve everything. It has worked great for our lines of communication/internet.

You are typing on this forum correct?

The bridges and roads and rail lines that were privately owned after Katrina were rebuilt in weeks. While some people are still waiting for the govt to rebuild infrastructure there nearly 4 years later.

That doesnt mean I believe the govt shouldnt be building infrastructure. But your condescending jab at the free market was pretty stupid.

 

[soccerballtux]

If congress would fix the electricity carrier legislation then the transmission lines problem would solve itself.
But politics is about power, and if it can be solved itself then Congress can't run in and save the day.

Keep in mind there may be some interest group bias here, people who paid for the video and stand a lot to gain from Obama taking action (electric lines companies, construction companies, etc.)

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Just have private companies provide infrastructure. The free markets will solve everything. It has worked great for our lines of communication/internet.

You are typing on this forum correct?

The bridges and roads and rail lines that were privately owned after Katrina were rebuilt in weeks. While some people are still waiting for the govt to rebuild infrastructure there nearly 4 years later.

That doesnt mean I believe the govt shouldnt be building infrastructure. But your condescending jab at the free market was pretty stupid.

I don't see it as condescending. Internet access has worked quite well on the free market. There are problems with private roads and power lines though... mainly that there would be little return, hence little incentive to string lines to rural areas.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Just have private companies provide infrastructure. The free markets will solve everything. It has worked great for our lines of communication/internet.

You are typing on this forum correct?

The bridges and roads and rail lines that were privately owned after Katrina were rebuilt in weeks. While some people are still waiting for the govt to rebuild infrastructure there nearly 4 years later.

That doesnt mean I believe the govt shouldnt be building infrastructure. But your condescending jab at the free market was pretty stupid.

Very interesting, solid point.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Just have private companies provide infrastructure. The free markets will solve everything. It has worked great for our lines of communication/internet.

You are typing on this forum correct?

The bridges and roads and rail lines that were privately owned after Katrina were rebuilt in weeks. While some people are still waiting for the govt to rebuild infrastructure there nearly 4 years later.

That doesnt mean I believe the govt shouldnt be building infrastructure. But your condescending jab at the free market was pretty stupid.

in all fairness, railroads are pretty easy and quick to built and are absolutely vital to about everyone else in the country. also link please, since i've never heard this put forth.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu
Just have private companies provide infrastructure. The free markets will solve everything. It has worked great for our lines of communication/internet.

You are typing on this forum correct?

The bridges and roads and rail lines that were privately owned after Katrina were rebuilt in weeks. While some people are still waiting for the govt to rebuild infrastructure there nearly 4 years later.

That doesnt mean I believe the govt shouldnt be building infrastructure. But your condescending jab at the free market was pretty stupid.

I don't see it as condescending. Internet access has worked quite well on the free market. There are problems with private roads and power lines though... mainly that there would be little return, hence little incentive to string lines to rural areas.

wasn't most of the original heavy lifting on the internet done by public universities? I had always heard that the reason my area had such good internet so early was the high student/population ratio.

 

[AreaCode707]

I think infrastructure combined with a bad year of natural disasters may be the next uber major crises in the US, yes. Flying into someplace like LA at night just reinforces how dependent we are on supply chain; even one week with no incoming food, a break in water supply, and cessation of sewage treatment and garbage pickup and you suddenly have a MASSIVE problem. All of those could be caused by a single big earthquake.

 

[bobsmith1492]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
I think infrastructure combined with a bad year of natural disasters may be the next uber major crises in the US, yes. Flying into someplace like LA at night just reinforces how dependent we are on supply chain; even one week with no incoming food, a break in water supply, and cessation of sewage treatment and garbage pickup and you suddenly have a MASSIVE problem. All of those could be caused by a single big earthquake.

True, if the US were hit by a couple of bad hurricanes and earthquakes, emergency resources would be stretched thin. Toss in some wildfires, lots of tornadoes and rain for flooding, and a few windstorms, and millions would be without power at the least. Add some unrest in the middle east and rise of piracy, and oil shipments could become scarce - that along with refineries wrecked by hurricanes and too many regulations to build new ones means gas would become scarce. Scarce fuel, damaged crops, no electricity means water and food would become scarce. There's nothing like hunger to get people off their butts and away from the TV. That's where civil unrest would start. Oh, and police officers begin to quit because the states are too broke to pay them...

Ok, that was fun to think about. It could happen, though; all the ingredients are available, but they haven't come together properly in the mixing pot... yet.

 

[StageLeft]

It's no secret, or it ought not to be, that the miles of roads in the US have barely gone up in the past few decades despite a doubling of vehicles, this being much of the reason for terrible congestion in many cities.

I think the economy in the country is so tweaked, relatively speaking, that if anything moderately destructive hit the infrastructure like some terrorist attacks at the same time to the powergrid, maybe a few bridges at the same time, too, the economy would be hugely impacted over a fairly minimal effort. The grid has little spare capacity, supply lines across the country for everything often run on a few days of what they need, from gas to groceries, and even people in their homes don't keep much food. I don't know how vulnerable the internet is but if it was taken down on a fairly wide scale even for several days the cost would be phenomenal.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
This is what the stimulus funds should have been used for.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It's no secret, or it ought not to be, that the miles of roads in the US have barely gone up in the past few decades despite a doubling of vehicles, this being much of the reason for terrible congestion in many cities.

I think the economy in the country is so tweaked, relatively speaking, that if anything moderately destructive hit the infrastructure like some terrorist attacks at the same time to the powergrid, maybe a few bridges at the same time, too, the economy would be hugely impacted over a fairly minimal effort. The grid has little spare capacity, supply lines across the country for everything often run on a few days of what they need, from gas to groceries, and even people in their homes don't keep much food. I don't know how vulnerable the internet is but if it was taken down on a fairly wide scale even for several days the cost would be phenomenal.

... This is the problem when a fairly good, simple idea, such as "Maximizing profit" or "Minimizing cost" is taken too far. Which it has been, in our society as a whole, for quite a long time. It is a short term, small minded mentality.

 

[theeedude]

Probably going to need a second stimulus for infrastructure.

 

[Modelworks]

It really would not take much effort for terrorist to bring down some of the things they showed in the documentary. There is a major bridge in NY, Tappan Zee bridge. It was made during the korean war so the foundation is simply trees that were driven into the clay to form supports for the bridge. Normally the wood would have been treated but due to the cost and with the idea that it would be replaced in 50 years they didn't . To make things worse they have discovered a water born termite like pest that likes to eat wood submerged in water. Thousands of people cross that bridge daily. The engineers explained how the failure of one support could bring the whole thing down.

The cost to replace is over $6 billion, the stimulus bill gave out $180 million for the entire USA to fix bridges.

The really bad part about this is most of the structures were built in the 1950's with the idea they would be replaced in 50 years, so you have thousands of structures that are now at the end of their lifespan. If one bridge fails and they shift the load to other bridges, those will fail too in a cascade effect.

Instead we have officials worrying about MJ tributes.


Download the pdf here and see the actual report.
http://www.infrastructurerepor...RC2009_full_report.pdf

 

[sportage]

I believe there is a lot of local corruption and pocketing of funds. Local government leaders have figured out how to pocket, one way or another, funding for roads and bridges.

The fed gov grants states $$$ each year.
The states MUST use all the $$$, or next years grants will be cut to that state.

So what you see are cities repairing the same roads, year after year, over and over,
to make sure funds "appear" to be used up.
While simple maint repairs like pot holes and road repaving goes ignored.
The locals know the costs of a project they handled last year, so they repeat
the same repair, while having figured out how to pocket some of those funds.
It is one of the most common local government corruptions. Everyone does it.

The money is there. The fed gov gives the grants. The local politicians
abuse the funding so little quality repair is actually ever done.
And this goes on year after year. Its business as usual.

The problem is not a lack of money, or fed grants, or a lack of roads needing repair.
The problem is with accountability. Or the lack of accountability on the local level.
Just one page out of the book on local dirty little politics, wasting your money.