Is higher education a farce, a -EV decision for most?

[silverpig]

Education opens a door. It is up to you to walk through it.

 

[Elbryn]

it is still true statistically that the median salary rises higher with escalating levels of formal education. of course there will be exceptions to everything. specific technical skills that are in demand will always find jobs. what about that cobol programmer that never picked up any other skills? might be in a tougher spot now.

it's also how/where you go about getting the degree. a teacher who's likely to make in the 30k range after graduation isnt making the best decision by getting that education degree from a private liberal college where tuition can hit 20k+ a year. state college or cc to state college is still a relatively cost effective way to get a degree.

workplaces usually provide some modicum of higher education benefits. taking advantage of them can also provide you a boost. formal education never expires, requires recertification, or continuing education.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

There a lot of factors at play here, but I think it can boil down to a system that creates poor expectations in the student population while ignoring other options that may be better choices for them. A government funding system with no accountability acts as a facilitator.

I am finishing a PhD this year, and this topic comes up often at dinner, the bar, etc. At the beginning of each semester, I ask each of my students to write paragraph answering each of the following questions:

Why are you at a university?
Why are you at this university?
Why are you in this class?

The range of answers I receive is astonishing. I could not agree with what you wrote more. However, I'd hasten to add something I'm shocked hasn't come up at all in this thread... It's an awful lot to expect an 18 year old to know what they want out of life and to know the most efficient way to get that!

 

[ss284]

I think the problem is that undergraduate degrees for a lot of majors(liberal arts, social sciences) are rather worthless unless you are the best of the best and continue to top level graduate education(law, econ, business).

 

[TechHead87]

Colleges charge what they want because they can, and they dont have to justify the costs.

 

[brianmanahan]

just do well in high school and you'll never have to pay a dime for college. i got bachelors and masters degrees for free.

 

[Phokus]

It used to be that a university degree practically guaranteed you a job.

Now it doesn't guarantee shit, but it's become a prequalification for getting a middle class white collar job.

 

[Bateluer]

I am finishing a PhD this year, and this topic comes up often at dinner, the bar, etc. At the beginning of each semester, I ask each of my students to write paragraph answering each of the following questions:

Why are you at a university?
Why are you at this university?
Why are you in this class?

The range of answers I receive is astonishing. I could not agree with what you wrote more. However, I'd hasten to add something I'm shocked hasn't come up at all in this thread... It's an awful lot to expect an 18 year old to know what they want out of life and to know the most efficient way to get that!

Details, man, details!

 

[shortylickens]

I am finishing a PhD this year, and this topic comes up often at dinner, the bar, etc. At the beginning of each semester, I ask each of my students to write paragraph answering each of the following questions:

Why are you at a university?
Why are you at this university?
Why are you in this class?

The range of answers I receive is astonishing. I could not agree with what you wrote more. However, I'd hasten to add something I'm shocked hasn't come up at all in this thread... It's an awful lot to expect an 18 year old to know what they want out of life and to know the most efficient way to get that!

Yeah I was 26 and had a lot of real world experience before I finally figured out that what I wanted wasnt really what I wanted, and how I thought I'd get there was totally incorrect as well.

 

[TridenT]

just do well in high school and you'll never have to pay a dime for college. i got bachelors and masters degrees for free.

This.

It helps if you don't come from a well off family either.

Or you could have family who served in the military and is disabled from it... then you get your public university education tuition completely waived. Just gotta pay books, but they also give you money for every month you're in school to pay things like rent/books/food. One could also get scholarships for that stuff though. Get scholarships + tuition waiver... you'll be set for many years of schooling.

 

[Ronstang]

It didn't used to be but like everything else the government gets too involved in...it turns to shit. You young people are getting fucked every which way you turn. I am damn glad I am old enough to have kids in college because it is good to be that far away from education and since I don't have any kids of my own I am not paying for it now either.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I am not paying for it now either.

You don't pay any taxes?

 

[timosyy]

I went to college because my parents told me I was going to go to college .

/Asian.

Edit: Forgot to say, I credit college a lot with landing me your generic 60k+ job doing nothing right after I graduated though. And I'm thankful for that little piece of paper whenever I hear my peers working as managers for Bath & Body Works and applying to a hundred other receptionist positions. I may not agree with the system, but it worked for me /shrug.

 

[Ronstang]

You don't pay any taxes?

Although not completely irrelevant, not anywhere close to the same. Since the government pumps out student loans like they are grass clippings the overwhelming increase in costs (mostly fake) have simply been pushed off onto the students. Simple economics yet the government is too fucking stupid to understand the ramifications of easy loans....that you can NEVER get away from. You poor kids are going to be paying your loans off for 20 years or longer in some cases. It is sick, stupid, and unnecessary but the government is involved so it is the logical result.

 

[roguerower]

Education opens a door. It is up to you to walk through it.

This. Gotta be willing to get out of your comfort zone to get ahead. I moved halfway across the country and left my family/GF behind for my job.

I am finishing a PhD this year, and this topic comes up often at dinner, the bar, etc. At the beginning of each semester, I ask each of my students to write paragraph answering each of the following questions:

Why are you at a university?
Why are you at this university?
Why are you in this class?

The range of answers I receive is astonishing. I could not agree with what you wrote more. However, I'd hasten to add something I'm shocked hasn't come up at all in this thread... It's an awful lot to expect an 18 year old to know what they want out of life and to know the most efficient way to get that!

True. So why is it assumed that the majority of teenagers know what degree to get? I agree that the vast majority of BA degrees are absolutely worthless and unless you go to a recognized school with a great program you're pretty much SOL. Radford University, right down I-81 from VT has a GREAT nursing program. Everything else, not so much.

Colleges charge what they want because they can, and they dont have to justify the costs.

I'm gonna blame this on all the new private "colleges" that are popping up, as well as the for-profit "universities". For the most part I think that most public state universities are legit but the number of small colleges where people basically pay $40k/yr for their 4yr diploma are ridiculous and help to increase the problem.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I'm more interested in a job/career that keeps me thinking than one that makes buckets of money.

I think it's worth noting that in two pages of posts, this is the only one that acknowledged "value" has a broader definition than money.

 

[thecrecarc]

Success is about opportunity, knowledge, luck, drive, and endurance. Higher education helps with the first two. The last three on the other hand, not so much.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Details, man, details!

I get everything from 'I'm here to drink and fuck' to 'I want to change the world.' 'A college degree will help me get a good job' is the most common. The most common answer to the second question is basically 'this is the best public school in the state,' but I get a fair amount of 'my parents went here' and 'Madison is a great place to live.' As for the last one, it depends on the class. The intro anthropology course is usually 'I'm a BA student and this course fulfills my biology requirement' or 'I'm an anthro major' with a few 'I'm a bio major.' But in the honors intro bio class it's almost always 'I want to be a physician or scientist and this program has a stellar reputation.'

I think many posters in this thread simply don't understand that for many people, pursuing what they enjoy is worth paying student loans for 20+ years. I think it's wiser to consider whether a higher ed degree will facilitate a happier life, however you define happiness.

 

[disappoint]

Education opens a door. It is up to you to walk through it.

Except in Poland?...

 

[Gigantopithecus]

I agree that the vast majority of BA degrees are absolutely worthless and unless you go to a recognized school with a great program you're pretty much SOL.

I think that's an incredibly ignorant statement. I do not know anyone with a BA who is unemployed. Do BAs earn less than BSs? Sure, but again, there's more to life than money.

 

[Jadow]

I expect college prices are going to come down pretty hard soon.

College costs are so high for many reasons, fancy new dorms and buildings ALL THE TIME, over paid tenured profs who take 2 semesters off from teaching to do BS research, etc...

The student aid credit market is tightening up, the job market sucks, and students are becoming better consumers, they're not going to subsidize these bloated schools any more.

Basically the law of supply and demand has been absent from higher education for about 20 years now, with the bad job market and tightening credit, there's going to be a huge correction coming.

 

[sourceninja]

I'm only going back to school for 1 reason. My CIO wants me to go. If it wasn't free (except for books) I wouldn't even consider it.

And I work in education.

 

[TecHNooB]

a college education is great but they really do gouge you. that's why you go there and do well

if you goof off when you're too dumb to goof off, you get no sympathy from me

 

[Wyndru]

My wife paid 90k for grad school, she makes 35k/year now. I paid 20k for my BS, I make slightly more than her.

It's more about the field, I'm in IT, she is in Psychology.

 

[chipy]

does anyone know how other countries are faring as far as higher education is concerned? are school costs relatively high in countries like China or India? do their governments subsidize loans like ours?