Is higher education a farce, a -EV decision for most?

[holden j caufield]

I've done my undergrad and going to school online for higher ed. It's online classes which have almost zero overhead yet the prices are ridiculous. I then got talking to my friends in other fields and their costs for higher education are even higher and post grad is 150k+. It got me to thinking that the education system in is a gouge fest. Everything from the application, books, parking, dorms, tuition etc.

Graduated 8 years ago and in that time friends are telling me the cost of just tuition has jumped 350%+. I feel sorry for the kids/parents entering the system now and in the future, as employers/society basically force kids to go this route. Is it becoming a -EV (expected value) decision for a lot? Considering the alternatives are trades schools and others that have a tangible skill at a fraction of the cost.

 

[MovingTarget]

What is a -EV decision?

 

[Turin39789]

What is a -EV decision?

inquiring minds want to know. maybe I need to go to college and find out.

 

[mb]

Negative expected value. Meaning you get less out of it than you put in.

 

[MovingTarget]

Negative expected value. Meaning you get less out of it than you put in.

For many in my generation, it is. It seems that most who go to college don't even get a job in their field (even those in the sciences). It is just 4 or more years of your life so that HR won't immediately toss your resumé when you apply for a job...any job. We really need a more robust trade school route.

 

[Maleficus]

College prices are ridiculous, most grad degrees aren't worth it either.

Myself, from BS -> MS I'll get a 20k raise at my job with the opportunity to make anywhere from 30-40k more if I switch jobs.

 

[shortylickens]

If my experience at a Virginia Community College is any indication, its a HUGE joke. Its worse than public high school in Minnesota. They are just using it as a poor quality fix for a shitty high school education.

I sincerely hope the people attending fancy private universities feel like they are getting their money worth. Cuz I feel like I've been ripped off, big time. And it doesnt get any cheaper than this.

 

[ponyo]

Get rid of govt subsidy.

 

[reallyscrued]

If my experience at a Virginia Community College is any indication, its a HUGE joke. Its worse than public high school in Minnesota. They are just using it as a poor quality fix for a shitty high school education.

I sincerely hope the people attending fancy private universities feel like they are getting their money worth. Cuz I feel like I've been ripped off, big time. And it doesnt get any cheaper than this.

NVCC offers master's programs? I thought they only hand out Associate's?

 

[holden j caufield]

The worst part of it that the schools try to make it like they doing it for altruistic reasons to shape young adults etc. but really it feels like an extortion of sorts. If you don't have a 4 year degree HR won't even look at you. For the doctors, programmers, engineers etc. the degree seems to pay off for itself but many aren't built for this or wouldn't find it interesting. People with philosophy, social science, art, even business and marketing ones seem to have a really hard time.

Maybe they should charge less for other majors or take out GE classes so people can accelerate their studies. I don't know and this isn't a wine as I've graduated, and work pays for any future education. But I'm the kind that likes to get some value for the money and the whole system seems very wrong. I had to go get a parking pass and the price was 3x more for a 3 month pass and quarters used to get me 15 min but now it's 10 min. Talk about nickel and diming people.

 

[IGBT]

no one is guaranteed automatic success at the end of a college degree. With world wide competition for jobs most americans are at a cultural and work ethic disadvantage.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Get rid of govt subsidy.

As long as the government is handing out student loans without regard to what they are being used for; the schools will increase costs to suck up any extra funding that is available.

The schools are not being held accountable for the ability to deliver for the market place; they just have to meet certain standards to be certified.

The market place is not hold the schools responsible for quality.

 

[PingSpike]

There a lot of factors at play here, but I think it can boil down to a system that creates poor expectations in the student population while ignoring other options that may be better choices for them. A government funding system with no accountability acts as a facilitator. Suffice to say, the only "solutions" we seem to be offered by any of our leaders seem to consist of doing what isn't working and arguably caused the problem even harder.

 

[roguerower]

Maybe people should get an undergrad degree in the field they want to work in, that way they don't need to go back and get an MA/MS. I don't understand why people go to school for 4 years and throw money down the drain just for a piece of paper that says that they got a Bachelor of Arts in History from Who-Gives-A-Fuck University because they were too lazy to study or go to a trade school. This is how we end up with government workers who end up working in a technical field and have no idea how to do the job.

I may be one of those rare cases the OP is talking about, but I went to school for construction management and my job is construction management. Only reason that I'll go back is if I'm looking at a steep promotion that requires it. The nice thing about this field is that most of the shit is all prac. app and you learn by doing. I always took what the "professional teachers" said with a grain of sand. Just because you got a PhD next to your name doesn't mean I'm gonna respect what you say when you have 0 years of field experience to back your shit up.

5 years of higher education at 10k a year was worth it, especially with all the shit I did in college and graduating with a solid job.

 

[vi edit]

It's certainly an "abused" process. As others have said there's a lot of misrepresented expectations. You can't just expect to go to college, pay a big tab, get a piece of paper and then get a good paying job. It just doesn't work that way for most people.

And on the flip side, I think it's bullshit that employers use degrees as leverage against employees for things like promotions, and job placements.

A degree is not a representation of ability. But it's being marketed as such.

It's a self feeding cycle of inflated expectations at this point. Employers want college degrees because it's a way of filtering out candidates. So both the schools and the employers hype up the advantage of having one and you are pretty much told you have to get a degree to succeed. And then Uncle Sams swoops in and enables the whole thing by handing out bucket fulls of student loans that you defer payments on for the whole time making you forget about the real costs.

And then you get your entry level, low paying office job for $30,000 - $40,000 a year and you have a $60,000 or more student loan note sitting out there for the next 10-30 years you have to whittle away at. Bleh.

But at least it's a nice 4 year segway between high school and "real life" that you can get most of your youthful angst, curiousities, and ignorance out of the way.

A lot of people and employers would be better off(work, skill and financially) with a dedicated trade school for their profession. Something similar to the apprenticeships that the trade skills do. Basically focus on what you plan to do for a years worth of training, get a small stipend to keep food on the table and then come out a year (or however long later) without an enormous loan under your belt.

 

[child of wonder]

I'm able to comfortably support my entire family on my salary alone with my $8,000 Associate's degree. I'm pretty damn happy with it.

Success is about ability, determination, ambition, and luck. No diploma from any school guarantees anything.

The way employers want degrees for specific positions is absurd. At a previous job my manager had almost 20 years of Networking experience, CCNA, CCNP, etc. but no degree. He was turned down for a job, despite being the perfect candidate, because he didn't have a bachelor's degree. Eventually, the hiring manager got a CEO override to bring him on board.

 

[highland145]

I'm able to comfortably support my entire family on my salary alone with my $8,000 Associate's degree. I'm pretty damn happy with it.

What trade/field?

My bro, with his 10th grade education and 30+ years turning a wrench, makes a shit ton of $$.

 

[child of wonder]

What trade/field?

My bro, with his 10th grade education and 30+ years turning a wrench, makes a shit ton of $$.

My AAS degree is in Network Administration. I currently work as an IT Consultant focusing on VMware, Microsoft, Linux, and storage.

 

[highland145]

My AAS degree is in Network Administration. I currently work as an IT Consultant focusing on VMware, Microsoft, Linux, and storage.

Did you have someone decent pointing you in that direction or just where your interests lay? Looks like a lot don't get a "do over" if they mess up their 1st time around, like the 4 year history majors flipping burgers.

 

[zCypher]

Success is about ability, determination, ambition, and luck. No diploma from any school guarantees anything.

DING DING DING! Exactly. Somehow, this point always seems to be lost among people when this topic comes up. School is a tool like any other.

 

[vi edit]

DING DING DING! Exactly. Somehow, this point always seems to be lost among people when this topic comes up. School is a tool like any other.

That's fine and all...but you can have all the ability in the world and if your resume or application gets roundfiled by HR because you don't have some initials after your name then it means dickall.

And it's also *VERY* market specific. With many jobs a degree isn't a perk. It's an absolute requirement. Now whether that is right is an entirely different argument.

 

[Tsavo]

The only thing good about college is the centralization of parties and sex.

 

[0roo0roo]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/

 

[nonameo]

I'm more interested in a job/career that keeps me thinking than one that makes buckets of money.

 

[holden j caufield]

if you have no degree, HR will not even look at you for some positions that don't require a degree. There is also a ceiling for how far you can go or your pay without a degree at most places. It's wrong but that's how 98% of employers work. Course there are exceptions but this is usually the case.

The worst is that higher degrees for some gov jobs like teachers etc. They give them an automatic pay bump of 6k+ for getting a masters. The crazy part is the school district doesn't care what the masters is, doesn't have to be related to anything. Just needs a paper that says masters. This is what my friend who teaches PE told me and guess who is footing the bill? And please if anyone is going or knows someone thinking about going to a Devry, ITT, Univ or Phoenix etc. I was shocked at the prices, you can get so much more per dollar for your education.