Is Healthcare a human right?

[frostedflakes]

Personally I feel it is. There is something seriously wrong when we have women and children dropping dead because they cannot afford to see a decent doctor. Especially now that we have record unemployment, the number of people without adequate healthcare in the U.S is staggering.

Remember there people in this country who are just to sick to work, to sick to get insurance. Here they are expected to lay down and die, and to me that is one of the the greatest tragedies in the country. :'(

The current reform bill is so weak very little will change I fear. We need real progress and real change. Too many children go sick and die because their parents cannot take them to a doctor. :'(

To be fair, it's not like people in other countries don't die waiting in line to see a specialist. No system is perfect, they all have their pros and cons.

 

[ProfJohn]

He just restated the problem.

No, I do not believe it is a natural right like freedom of speech, thought, religion, etc is. I don't mind paying for state health care to a point. The only reasonable solution I've been able to come up with is to encourage regular visits by lowering costs for those who get complete screenings regularly. Create a system where insurance costs are based on health. Smokers and those with high body fat percentages pay the most, healthy, fit people pay the least. Help fund retirement health plans, like a 401k. When the person starts drawing social security, they become ineligible for government health funds, and pay using their 401k Health plan.

How do you respond to the people who will claim that fat people are fat because they are sick or addicted etc etc.

Plus making fat people and smokers pay more will mean that the people who need healthcare the most will skip out on that healthcare until it becomes too late etc etc etc.

 

[SSSnail]

I say everyone has the inalienable right to feel entitled.

 

[Malak]

I say everyone has the inalienable right to feel entitled.

Human rights basically boil down to just one: you have the right to think for yourself.

 

[Nebor]

I don't have a right to anyone else's services.

This guy gets it.

I'm going to go to school for 8-15 years in order to work for less than $100k a year? F that.

 

[ProfJohn]

The best solution is probably to set up a dual tiered system similar to France.

The government via taxes will provide a limited amount of healthcare to poor people. This system will involve long wait times and limited options, but it will provide basic healthcare needs. (think of it as similar to public education)

The second tier will be private insurance offered via employers similar to what we have now. This system will have shorter wait times, better service and more options. (similar to private schools)

Employers would be 'encouraged' to provide private healthcare by offering tax incentives to cover a certain amount of their expenses and by taxing them for employes who aren't provided coverage.

 

[Nebor]

which is like saying you are only entitled to national defence from military if you have served.

I don't really see the analogy. People are entitled to a national defense because they PAY for it.

 

[ProfJohn]

This guy gets it.

I'm going to go to school for 8-15 years in order to work for less than $100k a year? F that.

You forgot the part about getting out of medical school with $100k in loans that will cost you $500 a month for the next 30 years of your life.

 

[lothar]

You forgot the part about getting out of medical school with $100k in loans that will cost you $500 a month for the next 30 years of your life.

$100k loans? That most have been 10-20 years ago.
Try $300k loans.

Med school costs $40-50k/yr...That doesn't even include undergrad loans.
Add undergrad loans and you're easily near the $300k mark.

 

[DCal430]

Completely wrong.

Pretty much all studies show that the US has much better healthcare outcomes than most European countries with their 'free' healthcare.

Generalized studies that show people in one country living longer or how infant mortality is better in another countries tend to ignore outside factors that effect such statistics. When you remove murder and drug related deaths and other means of death that we excel at then our mortality rate becomes very close or even better than countries with 'free' healthcare.

If you really want a good measure of how effect our healthcare system is then compare survival rates among cancer and other long term treatable diseases.

Finally, our problem is NOT our healthcare (which is among the best in the world) our problem is how to pay for such a system and turning it over to congress is NOT the solution.

You ignore the most important issue the disparity in healthcare been the rich and everyone else. While the poor and lower middle class go without proper medical care and die from undiagnosed and often treatable illness the rich are getting the best care you can buy. It reminds me of the middle ages with nobles and the peasants, and the funny thing is many of the people against universal healthcare could easily find themselves among those they treat like peasants.

 

[spidey07]

Hell fucking no. It is not a natural right of man. Hell fucking no.

What next? You think food should be given to you as a right? Hell fucking no.

 

[lothar]

I don't have a right to anyone else's services.

This.

Completely wrong.

Pretty much all studies show that the US has much better healthcare outcomes than most European countries with their 'free' healthcare.

Generalized studies that show people in one country living longer or how infant mortality is better in another countries tend to ignore outside factors that effect such statistics. When you remove murder and drug related deaths and other means of death that we excel at then our mortality rate becomes very close or even better than countries with 'free' healthcare.

If you really want a good measure of how effect our healthcare system is then compare survival rates among cancer and other long term treatable diseases.

Finally, our problem is NOT our healthcare (which is among the best in the world) our problem is how to pay for such a system and turning it over to congress is NOT the solution.

That.

 

[frostedflakes]

You ignore the most important issue the disparity in healthcare been the rich and everyone else. While the poor and lower middle class go without proper medical care and die from undiagnosed and often treatable illness the rich are getting the best care you can buy. It reminds me of the middle ages with nobles and the peasants, and the funny thing is many of the people against universal healthcare could easily find themselves among those they treat like peasants.

Erm, doesn't Medicaid and SCHIP cover poor families?

As others have mentioned, it's the middle class that really have it rough when it comes to health insurance.

 

[DCal430]

Erm, doesn't Medicaid and SCHIP cover poor families?

As others have mentioned, it's the middle class that really have it rough when it comes to health insurance.

It covers the children only most times and often times we have children who fall through the cracks. It is also a pain to get approval for a child.

 

[alkemyst]

wow 4 years of undergrad at $100k?

Anyway...med school is hardly the problem most docs have to worry about paying.

I don't feel health care is a human right. You get sick and can't affort card, keep your family and friends to pitch in...oh I forgot, they don't want to help either.

 

[DCal430]

The only healthcare a poor adult has is the emergency room and there they will get preventative medicine, nor will they likely get the quality of care they need. Really the system is fucked up with perhaps millions dying needlessly each year.

 

[HeXen]

You do realize the poor people are the ones getting free healthcare already. The middle class people are as usual the ones getting screwed and can't afford it.

you do realize i was reffering to those who are just above qualification for free healthcare. Not everyone in the ghetto is THAT poor. Many do work for a living ya know.

either way, if you have cash in your pocket and no health insurance and/or skimping out on dr. bills..then its your own damn fault. Plenty of middle class families as well wantint to spend their extra money on luxury items rather than proper health insurance

 

[DCal430]

you do realize i was reffering to those who are just above qualification for free healthcare. Not everyone in the ghetto is THAT poor. Many do work for a living ya know.

either way, if you have cash in your pocket and no health insurance and/or skimping out on dr. bills..then its your own damn fault. Plenty of middle class families as well wantint to spend their extra money on luxury items rather than proper health insurance

With a family of 4 decent medical coverage is often over a $1000 a month. For many families it is either food to eat or decent medical coverage but not both.

 

[TridenT]

Idk. How far do you want your money to go?

Saving one life for $50k or saving many for that $50k?

:awe:

LET DAH NATIONALISM BEGIN

 

[TheVrolok]

Anyway...med school is hardly the problem most docs have to worry about paying.

I guess I never got the memo, I'll be about 300-310k in debt when I finished school. 🙁

 

[Malak]

With a family of 4 decent medical coverage is often over a $1000 a month. For many families it is either food to eat or decent medical coverage but not both.

Whether they pay it straight up or through increased taxes, they still pay it. Nothing is free except what you are willing to give.

 

[ProfJohn]

The only healthcare a poor adult has is the emergency room and there they will get preventative medicine, nor will they likely get the quality of care they need. Really the system is fucked up with perhaps millions dying needlessly each year.

Millions??? Are you really that stupid?

 

[DCal430]

Whether they pay it straight up or through increased taxes, they still pay it. Nothing is free except what you are willing to give.

When we remove all of the middle men from the healthcare industry, such as private insurance. The cost of healthcare will drop 10 fold.

 

[DCal430]

Millions??? Are you really that stupid?

It is at least in the hundreds of thousands.

 

[destrekor]

Have some compassion, that person who needs ten million dollars a year to live could have easily been you, and you would be begging for society to pay for your treatment.

Would you beg for that level of treatment?

I plan to make a living will that states if I am in a coma for more than 7 days, and it wasn't medically induced and intended to last that long, then plugs should be pulled. I think it's selfish to simply be a burden and waste resources, simply for the hope that ones health might turn around.

Humans should have zero desire to continue to live if they require great effort from everyone around them to keep them alive, and yet they produce absolutely nothing for the rest of the tribe.

If you cannot provide value to the rest of your people, you should take the weight of the issue on your own shoulders and accept the inevitable instead of prolonging the issue and wasting valuable resources, all so you can continue to live selfishly.