Is Healthcare a human right?

[zerocool84]

No. It's a service that highly trained professionals provide. To say that you're entitled to it marginalizes their efforts and worth. It's no different than saying hair cuts are a human right, or a personal accountant is a human right.

I've got a great way to slash health care costs. Hire a few people for $10\hr that stand outside hospital rooms and tell those who can't pay to FOAD.

FOAD to people who can't pay their health costs??? Wow what a classy guy.

 

[Turin39789]

It is in England with our high taxes...it works well in emergencies but if you have an issue that is non critical it takes about 4-6 weeks to get a scan another 4-6 weeks to see the specialist. Thats the NHS paid with my taxes. I have that and private cover which I pay the tax on provided by my company, which to be frank is f0cking immense. Scan anytime I want within days of getting a Dr letter. See the specialist anytime I want.

Koing

I waited 2.5 years to see a specialist here for a non critical issue, and I was insured the entire time. But having a foot/ankle give out for a few days every three months didn't justify the expense on my HDHP. Finally wound up with some extra 'use it or lose it' FSA money I'd put back for our daughters birth and went in for some xrays and an mri. Diagnosed with peroneus longus insertional tendonitis.

Of course now that it is a new plan year/deductible I've found reason to ditch th PT.

 

[kranky]

Health care is not a human right. But a modern society should try to provide it to everyone who needs it, up to the point where the cost is unmanageable. The problem is determining where the line is.

People in car accidents should be treated without question.
People who need ten million dollars of care a year to stay alive, I'd say that's too much.

In between those extremes is where it gets complicated.

 

[Mo0o]

Health care is not a human right. But a modern society should try to provide it to everyone who needs it, up to the point where the cost is unmanageable. The problem is determining where the line is.

People in car accidents should be treated without question.
People who need ten million dollars of care a year to stay alive, I'd say that's too much.

In between those extremes is where it gets complicated.

Most reasonable statement thus far.

 

[DCal430]

Health care is not a human right. But a modern society should try to provide it to everyone who needs it, up to the point where the cost is unmanageable. The problem is determining where the line is.

People in car accidents should be treated without question.
People who need ten million dollars of care a year to stay alive, I'd say that's too much.

In between those extremes is where it gets complicated.

Have some compassion, that person who needs ten million dollars a year to live could have easily been you, and you would be begging for society to pay for your treatment.

 

[Nebor]

FOAD to people who can't pay their health costs??? Wow what a classy guy.

Classy? I fail to see what class has to do with subsidizing others' access to goods & services. If I didn't tip the bellhop, that might denote a lack of class. But people showing up at hospitals without the ability to pay aren't doing anything for me. They're just carelessly incurring illnesses and injuries without giving any forethought to their ability to pay for them.

 

[Imp]

Not American, don't care for your health care system, but it's your problem...


I feel bad for these people:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...tients-in-need-of-500-000-a-year-drug-therapy

Holy shit thought that is expensive. I don't think I'm worth 2 years of their lives in insurance payouts if I dropped dead right now.

 

[Nebor]

Have some compassion, that person who needs ten million dollars a year to live could have easily been you, and you would be begging for society to pay for your treatment.

I think you'd have to be a pretty small-minded, selfish person to expect others to value your life at $10M\year. If your life was actually worth that much, you'd be able to pay the bill yourself.

 

[zerocool84]

Classy? I fail to see what class has to do with subsidizing others' access to goods & services. If I didn't tip the bellhop, that might denote a lack of class. But people showing up at hospitals without the ability to pay aren't doing anything for me. They're just carelessly incurring illnesses and injuries without giving any forethought to their ability to pay for them.

Oh yes because we know people love going to the hospital. You do realize that people only go to a hospital because something is gravely wrong with them. They don't go there to hang out with their buddies. Everyone loves almost dying to you.

 

[Nebor]

Oh yes because we know people love going to the hospital. You do realize that people only go to a hospital because something is gravely wrong with them. They don't go there to hang out with their buddies. Everyone loves almost dying to you.

Eh, people go to the hospital for all sorts of reasons, from sinus infections to multiple gunshot wounds. But when you take your car to the mechanic, it doesn't matter if the radio's malfunctioning or the transmission fell out, you've gotta pay for the services rendered.

 

[zerocool84]

Eh, people go to the hospital for all sorts of reasons, from sinus infections to multiple gunshot wounds. But when you take your car to the mechanic, it doesn't matter if the radio's malfunctioning or the transmission fell out, you've gotta pay for the services rendered.

Ok so according to you, they should just lay there and die because if they can't afford it they should FOAD.

 

[Ichinisan]

I don't have a right to anyone else's services.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Stop dragging P&N muck into ATOT.

I've been seeing it a lot lately and it needs to stop.

 

[Mo0o]

Eh, people go to the hospital for all sorts of reasons, from sinus infections to multiple gunshot wounds. But when you take your car to the mechanic, it doesn't matter if the radio's malfunctioning or the transmission fell out, you've gotta pay for the services rendered.

But having a broken car vs. broken body is very different. You're comparing apples and oranges. Humans beings dont have any right to healthcare but they have a need for health, and as a society we should try to provide this service to as many people as possible in a financially responsible manner.

 

[Imp]

Ok so according to you, they should just lay there and die because if they can't afford it they should FOAD.

If they FOAD, then the tax payers will have to cover the burial. Damn poor people giving the finger even in death...

 

[Locut0s]

Just about every modernized country out there has managed to provide its people with some form of universal health-care. Some systems have their problems but as a whole most systems provide a better level of care per capita than the US system. Polls have shown in most of these counties that the last thing they would be willing to give up is their access to universal health care.

 

[HeXen]

Realistically, most who have the income for healthcare or to pay their own dr bills. but are poor in general (as in any extra cash in pocket after necessity bills are paid).... just would rather spend their money on something else for themselves or for some service they don't really need.

I hate seeing people in the ghetto areas with shiny rims, a $70 per month iphone and hear them talk about not having car or health insurance. not that i talk to them often about the subject but i've heard it.

 

[0roo0roo]

it is.
problem is the dems are soft on border control.
and so are repubs in some ways.
so that undermines support.

 

[Malak]

Personally I feel it is. There is something seriously wrong when we have women and children dropping dead because they cannot afford to see a decent doctor. Especially now that we have record unemployment, the number of people without adequate healthcare in the U.S is staggering.

Remember there people in this country who are just to sick to work, to sick to get insurance. Here they are expected to lay down and die, and to me that is one of the the greatest tragedies in the country. :'(

The current reform bill is so weak very little will change I fear. We need real progress and real change. Too many children go sick and die because their parents cannot take them to a doctor. :'(

I understand and agree with how you view the problem, but healthcare is not a right. It is a blessing. Nothing is free except what you will give away. Will you go to medical school and be a free doctor to people? Some doctors do this, more than you might realize. But not because it is a right but because they want to bless someone. Human rights is not a huge umbrella that covers a lot, and no human right requires action from someone else.

 

[0roo0roo]

No. It's a service that highly trained professionals provide. To say that you're entitled to it marginalizes their efforts and worth. It's no different than saying hair cuts are a human right, or a personal accountant is a human right.

I've got a great way to slash health care costs. Hire a few people for $10\hr that stand outside hospital rooms and tell those who can't pay to FOAD.

which is like saying you are only entitled to national defence from military if you have served.

 

[DCal430]

Wow a lot of selfish pricks in this thread. One day you could be the beggar and we will see what tune you will sing.

 

[zerocool84]

Realistically, most who have the income for healthcare or to pay their own dr bills. but are poor in general (as in any extra cash in pocket after necessity bills are paid).... just would rather spend their money on something else for themselves or for some service they don't really need.

I hate seeing people in the ghetto areas with shiny rims, a $70 per month iphone and hear them talk about not having car or health insurance. not that i talk to them often about the subject but i've heard it.

You do realize the poor people are the ones getting free healthcare already. The middle class people are as usual the ones getting screwed and can't afford it.

 

[Chaotic42]

Most reasonable statement thus far.

He just restated the problem.

No, I do not believe it is a natural right like freedom of speech, thought, religion, etc is. I don't mind paying for state health care to a point. The only reasonable solution I've been able to come up with is to encourage regular visits by lowering costs for those who get complete screenings regularly. Create a system where insurance costs are based on health. Smokers and those with high body fat percentages pay the most, healthy, fit people pay the least. Help fund retirement health plans, like a 401k. When the person starts drawing social security, they become ineligible for government health funds, and pay using their 401k Health plan.

 

[ProfJohn]

Just about every modernized country out there has managed to provide its people with some form of universal health-care. Some systems have their problems but as a whole most systems provide a better level of care per capita than the US system. Polls have shown in most of these counties that the last thing they would be willing to give up is their access to universal health care.

Completely wrong.

Pretty much all studies show that the US has much better healthcare outcomes than most European countries with their 'free' healthcare.

Generalized studies that show people in one country living longer or how infant mortality is better in another countries tend to ignore outside factors that effect such statistics. When you remove murder and drug related deaths and other means of death that we excel at then our mortality rate becomes very close or even better than countries with 'free' healthcare.

If you really want a good measure of how effect our healthcare system is then compare survival rates among cancer and other long term treatable diseases.

Finally, our problem is NOT our healthcare (which is among the best in the world) our problem is how to pay for such a system and turning it over to congress is NOT the solution.

 

[TheVrolok]

Completely wrong.

Pretty much all studies show that the US has much better healthcare outcomes than most European countries with their 'free' healthcare.

Generalized studies that show people in one country living longer or how infant mortality is better in another countries tend to ignore outside factors that effect such statistics. When you remove murder and drug related deaths and other means of death that we excel at then our mortality rate becomes very close or even better than countries with 'free' healthcare.

If you really want a good measure of how effect our healthcare system is then compare survival rates among cancer and other long term treatable diseases.

Finally, our problem is NOT our healthcare (which is among the best in the world) our problem is how to pay for such a system and turning it over to congress is NOT the solution.

A good bit of truth here ^.