Is Handshaking and Talking a Sign of Weakness?

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
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I read these articles: Gingrich raps Obama on Chavez summit greeting

Gingrich raps Obama on Chavez summit greeting
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WASHINGTON ? Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich charged Monday that President Barack Obama's cordial greeting with Venezuela's Hugo Chavez sends a poor message to enemies of America.

In a nationally broadcast interview, the Georgia Republican also accused the administration of being too slow to react to North Korea's launching of a rocket test and said it has reached out too much to ease relations with Cuba.

Chavez has been one of the harshest critics of the United States in that part of the world. Obama said at the conclusion of the Latin summit Sunday that he didn't think greeting Chavez would be "endangering the strategic interests of the United States."

Gingrich complained that the simple act of a smiling Obama shaking Chavez's hand caused a book Chavez has written to skyrocket on the best-seller lists in the United States.

"What I find distressing," he said, "is that the administration opposes opening up oil exploration," but yet Obama has "bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia" and now reached out to Chavez, whom Gingrich said has been conducting "a vicious anti-American campaign."

Gingrich, whose name has been mentioned in 2012 presidential speculation, said, "How do you mend relationships with someone who actively hates your country. ... "

"Cuba releases zero prisoners," he said, "yet we make nice with Cuba. I'm for doing things methodically and calmly ... things that will work, but I'm not for deluding myself about smiles and words."

Gingrich was interviewed on NBC's "Today" show.




and Obama says reaching out to enemies strengthens US
Obama says reaching out to enemies strengthens US
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Delicious Digg Facebook Fark Newsvine Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print Featured Topics: Barack Obama Presidential Transition Play Video AFP ? Obama leaves Summit of the Americas
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Obama leaves Summit of the Americas AFP Play Video Barack Obama Video:Washington Week in Photos: The Ride AP Play Video Barack Obama Video:Journalist 'not a spy' Australia 7 News AP ? President Barack Obama pauses during his final news conference at the 5th Summit of the Americas in Port ? By BEN FELLER, Associated Press Writer Ben Feller, Associated Press Writer ? 1 hr 27 mins ago
WASHINGTON ? Barack Obama's mission to Latin America was about goodwill, and he came home claiming progress, backed by leaders from the region who took a liking to his here-to-listen style. But the real test awaits.

As Obama himself put it, recasting a relationship takes not just words, but deeds.

So Obama embraced Cuba's overture to put every issue on the table, but he wants the Castro government to free political prisoners. He had attention-snaring handshakes and smiles with Hugo Chavez, but he wants the Venezuelan leader to stop being an authoritarian figure. Obama pledged the U.S. and Mexico are united on the drug war, but violence keeps on raging.

For now, Obama has what he wanted. A start.

"What we showed here is that we can make progress when we're willing to break free from some of the stale debates and old ideologies that have dominated and distorted the debate in this hemisphere for far too long," he said Sunday at the end of the Summit of the Americas.

The White House hopes it will all pay off ? Obama's personal diplomacy, his promises to lead without lecturing, his willingness to hear leftist leaders gripe about the past.

Obama even spelled out how, in his view, that political chain of events will happen.

He said countries will be more apt to cooperate with the United States on tough issues, even if only on the margins. Resistance based on anti-American conceptions of the past will fall away. And nations already friendly to the U.S. will be more willing to help because their people and neighbors will "see us as a force for good or at least not a force for ill."

Brazilian President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva said the U.S. and Latin America are now "creating a new way of looking at each other, of defeating our differences."

Even Nicaragua President Daniel Ortega, a critic of U.S. policy, said he found Obama receptive to dealing with the issues raised at the summit in Trinidad and Tobago. Ortega said Obama "is the president of an empire" that has rules the president cannot change. Nevertheless, he said, "I want to believe that he's inclined, that he's got the will."

Meanwhile, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich charged Monday that Obama's cordial greeting with Chavez sent a poor message to enemies of America by giving legitimacy and credibility to the fiery Venezuelan leader.

"What I find distressing, is that the administration opposes opening up oil exploration," but yet Obama "bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia" and now has reached out to Chavez, Gingrich said on NBC's "Today" show.

"Cuba releases zero prisoners," he said, "yet we make nice with Cuba. I'm for doing things methodically and calmly ... things that will work, but I'm not for deluding myself about smiles and words."

The dragging economy didn't consume nearly the attention it normally would have at a summit of the type. The U.S. relationship with its peers framed the debate.

In a closing news conference, Obama offered up lines bound to appeal to those following his words across the Americas. He spoke of standing up for freedoms but respecting the cultures of other democracies, even if the U.S. deeply opposes the policies of a country.

His message: The United States should be a leader in democracy, but not a lecturer.

"And so if we are practicing what we preach and if we occasionally confess to having strayed from our values and our ideals, that strengthens our hand," Obama said. "That allows us to speak with greater moral force and clarity around these issues."

On Cuba, he said the government in Havana should release political prisoners, embrace democratic freedoms and cut fees on the money that Cuban-Americans send back to their families. Obama has lifted some restrictions on Cuba, and Cuban President Raul Castro responded with a broad, conciliatory overture.

As for Venezuela, Obama's friendly encounters with Chavez at the summit drew intense publicity ? partly, Obama said, because Chavez is good at getting in front of TV cameras. Chavez's anti-American rhetoric has, in the past, led Obama to call him a demagogue.

Obama faced criticism from some Republicans about how he dealt with Chavez. He countered, "It's unlikely that as a consequence of me shaking hands or having a polite conversation with Mr. Chavez that we are endangering the strategic interests of the United States."

Nearing the 100-day mark of his presidency, Obama has spent much of April overseas. He made a splash in Europe, darted into the war zone in Iraq, and just spent four days in a region of the world where resentment for American power can run deep.

"I've got to get home," Obama told reporters before doing just that late Sunday evening.

The president planned to meet with his Cabinet on Monday to ask department and agency heads to offer ways to trim their budgets. Later in the day, Obama was to visit the CIA headquarters and deliver a public message on the agency's importance to national security.

I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.

What do you think?

 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
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The book Chavez gave him ""Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent" apparently blames a lot of the problems in Latin America on America. I have not read the book of course, so I can only take what I read as the truth about the content of it. Seems a bit odd if thats the case that Obama would consider this a "Nice Gesture".

Maybe it fits a little too much with Obama's Blame America agenda while overseas. I'll judge Obama on his results with Chavez and Castro.. both of whom have not changed a thing for the better in their countries since Obama took over.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
The book Chavez gave him ""Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent" apparently blames a lot of the problems in Latin America on America.

in fairness, that sounds a lot more thoughtful than a region-specific dvd box set ;)
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
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Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
The book Chavez gave him ""Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent" apparently blames a lot of the problems in Latin America on America. I have not read the book of course, so I can only take what I read as the truth about the content of it. Seems a bit odd if thats the case that Obama would consider this a "Nice Gesture".

Maybe it fits a little too much with Obama's Blame America agenda while overseas. I'll judge Obama on his results with Chavez and Castro.. both of whom have not changed a thing for the better in their countries since Obama took over.

The "America can do no wrong" agenda is even more dangerous than any sort of fictional "Blame America for everything" agenda.
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
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Originally posted by: loki8481
because you legitimize them and their views

Going out of your way to be nice to someone like Chavez is silly, he is a petty dictator that despises the US, the only reason he is being "nice" to the messiah is because he wants to ride the coat tails of his popularity.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: loki8481
because you legitimize them and their views

Going out of your way to be nice to someone like Chavez is silly, he is a petty dictator that despises the US, the only reason he is being "nice" to the messiah is because he wants to ride the coat tails of his popularity.
Well we've seen how effective not being respectful to them worked so well for the previous Administration. At least Obama didn't gaze into Chavez's eyes and find a soul mate like Bush did with Putin
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: loki8481
because you legitimize them and their views

Going out of your way to be nice to someone like Chavez is silly, he is a petty dictator that despises the US, the only reason he is being "nice" to the messiah is because he wants to ride the coat tails of his popularity.
Well we've seen how effective not being respectful to them worked so well for the previous Administration. At least Obama didn't gaze into Chavez's eyes and find a soul mate like Bush did with Putin

We dont know that for 100%. I swear in the picture that was running across the news this morning Obama had a twinkle in his eye!

I think the day Bush looked into Putins eyes, Putin was wearing reflective aviators.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: bozack
Originally posted by: loki8481
because you legitimize them and their views

Going out of your way to be nice to someone like Chavez is silly, he is a petty dictator that despises the US, the only reason he is being "nice" to the messiah is because he wants to ride the coat tails of his popularity.
Well we've seen how effective not being respectful to them worked so well for the previous Administration. At least Obama didn't gaze into Chavez's eyes and find a soul mate like Bush did with Putin

We dont know that for 100%. I swear in the picture that was running across the news this morning Obama had a twinkle in his eye!

I think the day Bush looked into Putins eyes, Putin was wearing reflective aviators.
He would have seen a void if that were the case.:D

 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
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Of course not. I think it shows a lot of maturity that we can put our political differences aside and look at where we can find common ground to improve the Americas as a whole.

I also don't understand how Gingrich (or anyone, for that matter) can still think shunning Cuba is appropriate. This has been our policy for decades and obviously it hasn't worked. It's also hypocritical considering we are already buddy-buddy with a number of nations that don't necessarily share all of our ideals (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). If people want the situation in Cuba to improve, opening up trade and letting foreign investment flow in seems like the best way to do this.
 

Gand1

Golden Member
Nov 17, 1999
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Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Of course not. I think it shows a lot of maturity that we can put our political differences aside and look at where we can find common ground to improve the Americas as a whole.

I also don't understand how Gingrich (or anyone, for that matter) can still think shunning Cuba is appropriate. This has been our policy for decades and obviously it hasn't worked. It's also hypocritical considering we are already buddy-buddy with a number of nations that don't necessarily share all of our ideals (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). If people want the situation in Cuba to improve, opening up trade and letting foreign investment flow in seems like the best way to do this.

There you go... trying to make logical sense out of a situation...sheesh!
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Of course not. I think it shows a lot of maturity that we can put our political differences aside and look at where we can find common ground to improve the Americas as a whole.

I also don't understand how Gingrich (or anyone, for that matter) can still think shunning Cuba is appropriate. This has been our policy for decades and obviously it hasn't worked. It's also hypocritical considering we are already buddy-buddy with a number of nations that don't necessarily share all of our ideals (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). If people want the situation in Cuba to improve, opening up trade and letting foreign investment flow in seems like the best way to do this.

I don't recall China ever calling the USA the "biggest menace to our planet."

and while Chavez gets some legitimacy and PR out of this, what is the US getting? Obama's job is to advance his country's interests and Chavez hasn't shown any inclination to change anything that might benefit us in any possible way.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: Gand1
Originally posted by: frostedflakes
Of course not. I think it shows a lot of maturity that we can put our political differences aside and look at where we can find common ground to improve the Americas as a whole.

I also don't understand how Gingrich (or anyone, for that matter) can still think shunning Cuba is appropriate. This has been our policy for decades and obviously it hasn't worked. It's also hypocritical considering we are already buddy-buddy with a number of nations that don't necessarily share all of our ideals (China, Saudi Arabia, etc.). If people want the situation in Cuba to improve, opening up trade and letting foreign investment flow in seems like the best way to do this.

There you go... trying to make logical sense out of a situation...sheesh!

Damm it... when did logical sense get a liberal bias now. :|
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Topic: Are Handshaking and Talking a Sign of Weakness?

Not in the least.





But never ever play Ping Pong ...


edit: And Newt is a Nut. The more he tries to stay relevant (like Palin) the bigger the fool he becomes. He should 'shut it down' like Romney if he has any hopes for 2012 ...
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
The book Chavez gave him ""Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent" apparently blames a lot of the problems in Latin America on America.

in fairness, that sounds a lot more thoughtful than a region-specific dvd box set ;)

It was the Spanish language version of the book, so to someone who doesn't speak Spanish it's about as useful as region-locked DVDs. ;)

I think Obama is right to not have a combative attitude to the leaders of other countries right off the bat. If they give him a reason to be combative, then they've passed up the opportunity for good relations and we don't look like the bad guy. I think the way Obama is acting will help our image in the rest of the world, and I think that does matter.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. It's a sign of strength, not weakness.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: loki8481
I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.

because you legitimize them and their views

No. Legitimization comes with acceptance or deference, not with acknowledgement of existence. The idea that America is perfect and all should bow to our superior system and intellect is ignorant, arrogant, and intellectually and morally bankrupt. The "cold shoulder" doesn't get anywhere. it never has, it never will. Only knuckle dragging fools think it has and will.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
It's all in how it's done and perceived. A firm handshake with a stern look can tell someone you're not to be fucked with.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
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When your enemies keep stabbing you in the back as you are shaking their hand is that still considered a sign of strength or a sign of weakness? I should give the guy some time, he did organize a community.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Originally posted by: loki8481
I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.

because you legitimize them and their views

yea DUH guys, didn't you know? If you just ignore them and pretend they aren't there, eventually they will disappear!!111!! They aren't real until you admit it!!
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
0
0
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: loki8481
I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.

because you legitimize them and their views

No. Legitimization comes with acceptance or deference, not with acknowledgement of existence. The idea that America is perfect and all should bow to our superior system and intellect is ignorant, arrogant, and intellectually and morally bankrupt. The "cold shoulder" doesn't get anywhere. it never has, it never will. Only knuckle dragging fools think it has and will.

I agree. We should be apologizing more. That will solve all of our problems in the world.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: loki8481
I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.

because you legitimize them and their views

No. Legitimization comes with acceptance or deference, not with acknowledgement of existence. The idea that America is perfect and all should bow to our superior system and intellect is ignorant, arrogant, and intellectually and morally bankrupt. The "cold shoulder" doesn't get anywhere. it never has, it never will.

Absolutely. Basic foreign relations is to talk. The lack of this allows the mind to wonder and paranoia to take over. We haven't had a foreign policy worth a shit the last eight years and Obama seems bent on making that history. That's one "change" I can believe in.


 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.
The ghost of Neville Chamberlain agrees with you.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I never did understand why talking to countries was an improper thing to do.
The ghost of Neville Chamberlain agrees with you.

There is a difference between talking and giving in. Appeasement is not discussion.

Doesn't sound like your married, or, if you are, your wife is a gutless coward. Because if you don't get your way you take your toys and go home.