Google really isn't helping here - and I love P&T's show. I'm still curious exactly what their beef was.
Google really isn't helping here - and I love P&T's show. I'm still curious exactly what their beef was.
It's been a long time since I saw it, but I remember I wasn't too impressed. They could have easily gone after md's that do weird sh!t.
Generally I like P&T, they do some funny ass stuff, but I didn't think their portrail of the chiro profession was fair. They definitely didn't show the full picture, but I guess that's what made the show so interesting, they picked the most colorful characters they could find, and blew them away.
BS Episode guide
Generally I like P&T, they do some funny ass stuff, but I didn't think their portrail of the chiro profession was fair. They definitely didn't show the full picture, but I guess that's what made the show so interesting, they picked the most colorful characters they could find, and blew them away.
BS Episode guide
I went in to see my sister's chiropractor for neck problems. I had always been quite skeptical of chiropractic medicine because my mom went constantly and never got any better. But, it was either go, or suffer, so I went.
The doctor was in his mid 30s - he had decided to start his own practice rather than join a group of docs. During the initial evaluation, the doc asked me if I had experienced any intestinal problems. In fact, I had. I had been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome (which is what they call it when they can't diagnose a real intestinal problem, but your intestines still don't work quite right). For a couple of years prior to the chiropractic visit, I had been drinking that nasty Metamucil fiber stuff, which really didn't work all that well anyway. Bleah.
Anyway, he adjusted my back and neck and scheduled me for a follow-up visit. The IBS symptoms disappeared IMMEDIATELY. From what the doc told me, the nerves leading to the intestines were probably a little pinched. However, I didn't realize that my back was out of alignment because there were probably no pain receptors where the nerves were pinched. He also explained that many medical problems are caused by simple nervous system problems.
I tell you, I'm a believer now. I still have to crack my neck every now and then, but it doesn't hurt constantly. And I haven't had to take any fiber additives for 5 years.
During the first few months, your chiropractor will probably want to see you quite often, as you've seen.
The reason is because the longer your bones are in the right position, the more your muscles get used to holding your bones in the right position (and the longer they're out of position, the more your muscles fight to hold them out of position). The more you go in the beginning, the less you'll need to go in the future. Plus, because everything's connected, sometimes adjusting one part of your backbone will cause another part to shift out of place. Frequent initial visits will correct the shifting as much as possible.
I didn't go 3 days a week for a year, but I probably went two or three times a week for three months, then tapered off my visits as time went on. I probably visit 3 or 4 times a year now. Just for a standard you can compare to, my doc charges me $35 a visit for an adjustment and a few minutes lying on a bed that rolls up and down your spine - I don't even claim it on insurance.
Finally, make sure you get a good chiropractor - get references, if possible. There's probably several good reasons why the "quack" stereotype is out there.
Cliff Notes:
I was skeptical, but chiropractic worked for me - cleared up a problem that I didn't know was related to chiropractic.
Frequent initial visits are so you stay fixed for longer. More visits now, less visits later.
Mine costs $35 a visit.
Get a good chiropractor.
The doctor was in his mid 30s - he had decided to start his own practice rather than join a group of docs. During the initial evaluation, the doc asked me if I had experienced any intestinal problems. In fact, I had. I had been diagnosed with Irritable Bowel Syndrome (which is what they call it when they can't diagnose a real intestinal problem, but your intestines still don't work quite right). For a couple of years prior to the chiropractic visit, I had been drinking that nasty Metamucil fiber stuff, which really didn't work all that well anyway. Bleah.
Anyway, he adjusted my back and neck and scheduled me for a follow-up visit. The IBS symptoms disappeared IMMEDIATELY. From what the doc told me, the nerves leading to the intestines were probably a little pinched. However, I didn't realize that my back was out of alignment because there were probably no pain receptors where the nerves were pinched. He also explained that many medical problems are caused by simple nervous system problems.
I tell you, I'm a believer now. I still have to crack my neck every now and then, but it doesn't hurt constantly. And I haven't had to take any fiber additives for 5 years.
During the first few months, your chiropractor will probably want to see you quite often, as you've seen.
The reason is because the longer your bones are in the right position, the more your muscles get used to holding your bones in the right position (and the longer they're out of position, the more your muscles fight to hold them out of position). The more you go in the beginning, the less you'll need to go in the future. Plus, because everything's connected, sometimes adjusting one part of your backbone will cause another part to shift out of place. Frequent initial visits will correct the shifting as much as possible.
I didn't go 3 days a week for a year, but I probably went two or three times a week for three months, then tapered off my visits as time went on. I probably visit 3 or 4 times a year now. Just for a standard you can compare to, my doc charges me $35 a visit for an adjustment and a few minutes lying on a bed that rolls up and down your spine - I don't even claim it on insurance.
Finally, make sure you get a good chiropractor - get references, if possible. There's probably several good reasons why the "quack" stereotype is out there.
Cliff Notes:
I was skeptical, but chiropractic worked for me - cleared up a problem that I didn't know was related to chiropractic.
Frequent initial visits are so you stay fixed for longer. More visits now, less visits later.
Mine costs $35 a visit.
Get a good chiropractor.
Sorry, but chiropractors' education aren't anywhere similar to MDs. Residency is where MDs get most of their training.
Sure, MD's make mistakes. That's bound to happen in any field. But on the whole, physicians do more good than harm. They treat serious medical problems, many with potentially lethal outcomes.
What problems do chiropractors treat? And do you have any randomised control trials or other strong evidence to suggest that chiropractic works?
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I just view them as a conditioned response. It feels good after you walk out of the office. But a few days later you feel like ass again and go back. Repeat ad nauseum.
Sure they make you feel good, but it's only temporary relief.
Sure they make you feel good, but it's only temporary relief.
Unless my 3-year struggle with IBS disappeared, coincidentally, on it's own at the same time I had my first treatment, then I'm living proof that chiropractic works. Just be sure to get a good doc... just like you would with any medical condition you might have.
It's such a shame to see so many people believe that chiropractors, as a whole, provide a service to society.
OutHouse
Lifer
- Jun 5, 2000
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Funny when i go to my doc for a problem, she gives me pills like anti-biotics and other stuff thats common. If you really think about it, MD's really dont "Cure" anything anymore all they do is "maintain" through the drugs they push. If it wasnt for pills doing the work i wonder where we would be.
Chiropractors take a different approach, they get the patient involved in their healing, finding self inflicted (unknown to the patient) behaviors or other variables that are fixable without flooding your body with drugs that only take away the symptoms not the cause. Chiropractors bring the patient awareness to fix problems like APT, PPT, LPT, Keyphosis, Lordosis, stretching... I have a very good friend who is a very accomplished Heart Surgeon and he hates chiropractors and thinks they are all quacks. Its funny how a man as educated as he is is so closed minded.
Western medicine has it value and so does Holistic Medicine.
DigDug: No Shiatsu bodyworks should ever be called Dr. I have 250 hours of training in Shiatsu and no way would i ever diagnose a problem on a client.
You're completely right, all doctors do is prescribe pills. So the next time you're in a trauma ward or have end stage renal failure, ask for a chiropractor to fix you, because he'll do a better job...you know, with getting you involved and stuff.
OutHouse
Lifer
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You are completely right as well. Nor would i ask for an Optometrist, or Podiatrist. Im talking about everyday problems that people go to a MD for like Headaches, Lower back pain, Sciatica, Whiplash. Why must people on here take things to the Absolute extreme all the fricken time.
hmm....than wth do they spend so many years in class's if their not learning anything, j/k
I totally agree with you in that md's learn a lot in in residency, and it's unfortunate that chiro schools don't offer that widely enough. I thought I made that kinda clear when I said the academic education was similar.
As for what they treat, well, not all medicine is about emergency med, some people that see chiro's are there because their md's couldn't help. I'm not saying that md's are bad but there are a lot of md's that don't know much about dc's and tend to propagate the myth that dc's are quacks. There has been a lot of research done lately, yes randomides controlled trial, some even blind, and double blinded but since the ama and esp. the insurance companies pretty much ignore it, it's not discussed much by the general population. But I'm sure if there was a study that chiro treatment could cure impotency, they'd be knocking down the doors! Who need Viagro or Cialis, go get and adjustment!
Anyways I don't want to take this thread off track, just wanted to say my two bits.
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
- Jun 22, 2003
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I am a believer in chiropractors, and I'm only 20! My mother has had back problems and migranes ever since I was a little kid. She ignored them by taking your average pain relievers as most would do at first. However, after years of putting up with it, she couldn't take it anymore as it was affecting not only her job, but her family life as well. Someone suggested she go see a chiropractor. To this day, she is able to function and live in much less pain because of chiropractic visits. She only gets migranes about once or twice a month as opposed to once or twice a week or even day.
What was said above about keeping your bones in line and how your bones being misaligned can lead to muscle and nerve problems is correct. I've seen living proof of it. I never tried it myself until about a year ago. I was already aware of the principles behind chiropractic visits and the varios back problems it is supposed to fix. (subluxation, etc.) Being in college, I didn't get much sleep and when I did, it was on a hard lumpy mattress night after night. My back started hurting as well because of this, so while I was taking my mother to her appointment, I got adjusted as well. Needless to say, I slept like a baby for the next whole month! I still go back every once in a blue moon, but overall, I feel better and have a lot more energy (as my muscles dont have to compensate for a misaligned spine anymore).
Just make sure you find a good one. We've seen both the good and bad. If you find a decent one (which there are a great many), then you will become a believer as well. Just keep an open mind as well until you go to that first visit.
Oh, and that 2-3x per week thing seems very excessive in terms of freqency of visits. Maybe for the first two weeks to get everything where it should be and then about once a month or so after that sounds about right. You may want to get an opinion from another doctor or chiropractor about that. But yeah, go for it!
What was said above about keeping your bones in line and how your bones being misaligned can lead to muscle and nerve problems is correct. I've seen living proof of it. I never tried it myself until about a year ago. I was already aware of the principles behind chiropractic visits and the varios back problems it is supposed to fix. (subluxation, etc.) Being in college, I didn't get much sleep and when I did, it was on a hard lumpy mattress night after night. My back started hurting as well because of this, so while I was taking my mother to her appointment, I got adjusted as well. Needless to say, I slept like a baby for the next whole month! I still go back every once in a blue moon, but overall, I feel better and have a lot more energy (as my muscles dont have to compensate for a misaligned spine anymore).
Just make sure you find a good one. We've seen both the good and bad. If you find a decent one (which there are a great many), then you will become a believer as well. Just keep an open mind as well until you go to that first visit.
Oh, and that 2-3x per week thing seems very excessive in terms of freqency of visits. Maybe for the first two weeks to get everything where it should be and then about once a month or so after that sounds about right. You may want to get an opinion from another doctor or chiropractor about that. But yeah, go for it!
Advances in healthcare are being accomplished through chiropractors, right?
I get it now. Doctors only push pills.
Antibiotics, vaccination, surgeries, etc have worked to increase life expectancy and improve quality of life as well. Just look at how young people used to die prior to antibiotics.
Look at AIDS. Sure, we don't have a "cure" for HIV and we can only "maintain" the condition for as long as we can. But look at how much longer these people are living and how improved their lives are compared to when we didn't have these drugs. But obviously because we don't "cure" these conditions, our work isn't all that great.
The next time you have a medical problem, just go see your local friendly chiropractor. Through their holistic approach, they'll be able to cure you of your cancer, heart disease, lung disease, kidney failure, diabetes, pneumonia, HIV, AIDS, rheumatological disorders, etc etc etc etc etc etc. I'm sure they can fix all these problems with a few sessions of spinal manipulation. *SNICKER*
Thanks for the response, iliopsoas...and thanks for being an asshat, Citrix.
While "small amount of schooling" may not have been the best choice of words, as chiropractors do have to go through 4 years of post-grad work for their licensure, I still stand by my point. Chiropractors are not required to go through residency or internship, and as others have stated, that's where much of a medical doctor's knowledge and training come from. Besides that, I have no idea how rigorous the 4 year DC program is in comparison to a 4 year MD program. They might be very similar, they might not. I know how hard medical school is; I can't say the same for chiropractic school. Not saying it's easy, just that I've never heard anything in relation to its difficulty.
I don't doubt that some chiropractors help their patients. A lot can come of improving posture and introducing someone to proper stretching techiques. These are things that medical doctors do as well, it's just that many of their patients choose not to listen. There's a bias against both professions. If you're in doubt, just visit a chiropractor or two and see how it goes. Trial and error, baby.
Edit: I will say that many MDs could do well to learn some bedside manner techniques from DCs, though. A large part of a patient's willingness to take and trust your advice is based on their personal opinion of you, and whether or not they feel you actually care about them. Also, having a positive view of the treatment can by itself go a long way in making the treatment feel as though it's helping. That's one area that I feel medical school skimps a bit on...but I think they're working on correcting that, as it's become a bit of a problem lately.
Just out of curiosity have you ever been to a chiro?
As a chiro i'm all over the preventative side of health, I think that people should take care of their bodies to avoid health problems like cancer, heart disease, lung disease, etc. Yes people who take care of themselves get these problems but that's what the md's are for.
Someone on this board has a great quote in their sig, the right tool for the right problem. Obviously a chiro is the wrong tool for a compund fracture, or HIV, etc, but why go to an md if they have little understanding of the mechanics of the body and it's complex interaction with the neurological web.
OutHouse
Lifer
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The Parker College study reported that on average, chiropractic college involves 372 more classroom hours than medical school. Chiropractic students also have more hours of training in anatomy, physiology, diagnosis, and orthopedics (the musculoskeletal system). It should be apparent from looking at the data below that in general, the chiropractic student has a more extensive classroom education and practical training in these areas, particularly in diagnosis, than the medical student.
Requirements for Admission to
Chiropractic and Medical Schools
Parker College of Chiropractic
Biological Science (with lab)..............1 year
General or Inorganic Chemistry
(with lab)..........................................1 year
Organic Chemistry (with lab)..............1 year
Physics (with lab).............................1 year
English or Communicative Skills.........2 years
Psychology......................................1/2 year
Humanities or Social Sciences...........Not less
than 15 semester hours, or 22.5 quarter hours.
Electives............From 4-to-12 semester hours,
or from 6-to-18 quarter hours.
Harvard Medical School
Biology (with lab)..............................1 year.
General or Inorganic Chemistry
(with lab)..........................................1 year
Organic Chemistry (with lab)..............1 year
Physics (with lab).............................1 year
Mathematics (calculus).....................1 year
Expository Writing............................1 year
Stanford University School of Medicine
Biology (with lab)....................................1 year
Chemistry, including organic (with lab).....2 years
Physics (with lab)...................................1 years
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Biological Science (with lab).........8 semester hours
General or Inorganic Chemistry
(with lab).....................................8 semester hours
Organic Chemistry (with lab)........ 8 semester hours
Physics (with lab)........................8 semester hours
Humanities or Social Sciences.....24 semester hours
Mathematics (calculus)................4 semester hours
The Following is Published by the Parker College of Chiropractic 2500 Walnut Hill, Dallas, Texas 75229 (214) 438-6932
Degree Requirements
These basic educational requirements for graduates of both chiropractic and medical schools show that although each has its own specialties, the hours of classroom instruction are about the same. (The class hours for basic science comparisons were compiled and averaged following a review of curricula of 18 chiropractic colleges and 22 medical schools, based on the 1988-1989 Association of American Medical College Curricula.)
Minimum Required Hours
Chiropractic College/Medical College
456.........Anatomy/Embryology............215
243................Physiology.....................174
296................Pathology.......................507
161................Chemistry.......................100
145................Microbiology...................145
408................Diagnosis.......................113
149................Neurology.......................171
271.................X-Ray.............................13
56.............Psychology/Psychiatry.........323
66.............Obstetrics & Gynecology......284
168.................Orthopedics.......................2
2,419......Total Hours for Degree.......2,047
Requirements for Admission to
Chiropractic and Medical Schools
Parker College of Chiropractic
Biological Science (with lab)..............1 year
General or Inorganic Chemistry
(with lab)..........................................1 year
Organic Chemistry (with lab)..............1 year
Physics (with lab).............................1 year
English or Communicative Skills.........2 years
Psychology......................................1/2 year
Humanities or Social Sciences...........Not less
than 15 semester hours, or 22.5 quarter hours.
Electives............From 4-to-12 semester hours,
or from 6-to-18 quarter hours.
Harvard Medical School
Biology (with lab)..............................1 year.
General or Inorganic Chemistry
(with lab)..........................................1 year
Organic Chemistry (with lab)..............1 year
Physics (with lab).............................1 year
Mathematics (calculus).....................1 year
Expository Writing............................1 year
Stanford University School of Medicine
Biology (with lab)....................................1 year
Chemistry, including organic (with lab).....2 years
Physics (with lab)...................................1 years
Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine
Biological Science (with lab).........8 semester hours
General or Inorganic Chemistry
(with lab).....................................8 semester hours
Organic Chemistry (with lab)........ 8 semester hours
Physics (with lab)........................8 semester hours
Humanities or Social Sciences.....24 semester hours
Mathematics (calculus)................4 semester hours
The Following is Published by the Parker College of Chiropractic 2500 Walnut Hill, Dallas, Texas 75229 (214) 438-6932
Degree Requirements
These basic educational requirements for graduates of both chiropractic and medical schools show that although each has its own specialties, the hours of classroom instruction are about the same. (The class hours for basic science comparisons were compiled and averaged following a review of curricula of 18 chiropractic colleges and 22 medical schools, based on the 1988-1989 Association of American Medical College Curricula.)
Minimum Required Hours
Chiropractic College/Medical College
456.........Anatomy/Embryology............215
243................Physiology.....................174
296................Pathology.......................507
161................Chemistry.......................100
145................Microbiology...................145
408................Diagnosis.......................113
149................Neurology.......................171
271.................X-Ray.............................13
56.............Psychology/Psychiatry.........323
66.............Obstetrics & Gynecology......284
168.................Orthopedics.......................2
2,419......Total Hours for Degree.......2,047
Yeah, I got my neck problem from sleeping on a lumpy couch for a year-and-a-half.
Won't do *that* again!I'll go down the list and discuss by line item.
During medical school, most of the classroom teaching occurs during the Basic Science portion, which is the first 2 years of medical school.
Anatomy/embryology. We spend countless hours in the gross anatomy lab during the day, at night and on weekends. Do your statistics account for these hours?
Physiology. Lots of classroom hours during the first 2 years. Lots more during clinical rotations during the 3rd and 4th years. I doubt that chiropractic students continue to study physiology during their rotations. I'd be willing take an MD's understanding of physiology over a chiropractor any day.
Pathology. I'm not surprised there.
Chemistry. While true that there isn't a strong emphasis on chemistry in medical school with the exception of biochemistry, most pre-meds have taken quite a few chemistry classes already. These usually include the MINIMUM of general chemistry (1 yr), organic chemistry (1 yr) in addition to General biochemistry and Biochemistry of Disease.
Microbiology. LOL NO way in hell chiropractors study as much microbiology as MDs. Med students study microbiology during the first 2 years of med school and then refine it even more during the 3rd and 4th years.
Diagnosis. Dunno what sort of diagnosis you're talking about. Even as a diagnostic radiology resident, I am confident my physical diagnostic skills are still better than a chiropractors.
Neurology. Aside from the usual basic science, most medical schools require 2 additional months of clinical training during the core 3rd year clerkship.
X-ray. You're right. Med students get very little exposure to radiology unless they sign up for it as an elective. However, diagnostic radiology residency requires an ADDITIONAL 5 years of training MINIMUM. Most physicians recognize their limited knowledge of radiology and defer interpretation of radiographic studies to diagnostic radiologists. Can't say the same for chiropractors as some of them are trying to interpret xrays with their limited training.
Psychology/Phsychiatry. Again, similar to Neurology above.
OB/Gyn. Again, similar to Neurology above.
Orthopedics. 2 hours? Your statistics are whacked. Although there is no emphasis on orthopedics, we definitely spend more than 2 hours in the classroom. Then we have the option of an elective in orthopedics as well.
So yes, medical students study these topics during their first 2 years of CLASSROOM work. But they study even more during the 3rd and 4th years in the hospital, which your statistics fail to account.
i had a pinched nerve when i was a freshman in HS and thanks to the chiropractor i don't any more, that thing hurt like a bitch. Also i've gone to another one out here in CA that doesn't crack and pop, he does more like behavior modification, i now wear wraps on my feet and it makes my back hurt less and me stand up straighter
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