Is Cathlocism Worse Than Islam?

[Younigue]

I have Clinical Depression and sure as hell glad I don't think like moonie does. Talk about having a shitty outlook at life. Living in despair is no way to live.

I'm glad you're having it treated. Keep you in a healthy mind as much as you are able.

 

[whm1974]

My biggest issue with Moonie is he thinks knowing nothing and claiming to be nothing is all he ever has to know. The love of the learning is a gift. To feel that it's done would be giving up on living. IIRC he'll agree that he has. That makes me sad for him.

I can never understand why anyone wouldn't want to learn new things that he didn't know before. And no I don't see life as suffering and our only hope is to die either.

 

[whm1974]

I'm glad you're having it treated. Keep you in a healthy mind as much as you are able.

Thanks. Yes I'm getting treatment. The medication helps.

 

[Younigue]

Thanks. Yes I'm getting treatment. The medication helps.

That makes me happy for you!

 

[Younigue]

I can never understand why anyone wouldn't want to learn new things that he didn't know before. And no I don't see life as suffering and our only hope is to die either.

Look, I'm gonna finish up on this thread at least for the time being. Noah and Moonie are putting a dampener on it for me. I gotta take a break. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation though. Thank you.

 

[whm1974]

Look, I'm gonna finish up on this thread at least for the time being. Noah and Moonie are putting a dampener on it for me. I gotta take a break. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation though. Thank you.

I don't blame you. I need to take one too. And I enjoyed our conversation myself.

 

[Moonbeam]

Just being a shit bag there Moonie.

I have a friend who is an English major and she did her dissertation on how in Americans use the term shit bad to describe others when expressing their inner selves. She calls me up on the phone and called me shit bag seven times when she’s feeling down and needs a hug. She loves me, you see, because she says most people respond to her by calling her a raging psycho bitch. Then there was the Zen master who used to say, if you have a shit bag I will give you one and if you haven’t got one I’ll take it away.

PS: whm has posted some masterpieces of fucked up poor grammar to the point where I have had to reread several times some of the stuff he has posted to make sense of it. Leave it to a slash and burn master like yourself to turn my suspicion as to why into something intended to be mean. My intention was to cut him some slack or start asking what the fuck he’s actually intending to say. He chose to deny he has a problem and your pathetic need to suck up to him isn’t going to change that. The coward chose to deny what is easily falsifiable and easily evident in his posts here. And he never answered the question as to whether he is a native speaker.

I am interested in addressing what someone intends to say and if what they say seems not to be what they intend I want to know why so I don’t go off addressing something said but incorrectly. I want to know if a person is unclear because they don’t know how to say what they mean because they aren’t native speakers, are unsophisticated with the written word, are literary beyond my comprehension, or perhaps puke on the page and don’t give a shit.
Profoundly unlike you, I want to treat who I am talking to as the person who is actually there. What I know so far now is that I whm is a person who has written poorly in a number of posts for some reason and seems inclined to deny it. I don’t give a fuck about pointing out these things to him. I give a fuck about whether I will not get what he says and if I need or should ask for clarification. What you and he do is to turn everything into an attack against you because I cause you to feel about yourselves exactly what you really do feel.

 

[Moonbeam]

Look, I'm gonna finish up on this thread at least for the time being. Noah and Moonie are putting a dampener on it for me. I gotta take a break. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation though. Thank you.

Blessed Jesus, she had me on ignore and took me off. This incapacity to face her issues is why I have not answered her endless slurs for ages. If you die to your ego your joy can’t be dampened. This can’t be taught, it can only be implied, but I wish it could.

 

[Noah Abrams]

I'm not trying to understand him. I do occasionally partake in dissecting his rantings or warning people about his blathering.

Is there any harm in getting to know something new? I’m suggesting something to you and you respond by attacking him again. Are you on this forum to broaden your horizons or just to stroke your ego? Which in turn is a shell around you. You think it protects you but it actually has you imprisoned

Whm, same suggestion about Zen to you. Give it a thought

 

[Noah Abrams]

And no I don't see life as suffering.

I suppose it wouldn’t help if I were to point out that the Buddha and many other profound beings saw what you don’t see, at least not yet.

 

[Noah Abrams]

And I enjoyed our conversation myself.

What you actually enjoy is your fragile ego being stroked. You are unable to actually even have a conversation let alone enjoy it

 

[whm1974]

I suppose it wouldn’t help if I were to point out that the Buddha and many other profound beings saw what you don’t see, at least not yet.

See what? That is nothing that can done about suffering and just accept it without question? Bullshit, we can and have reduced overall suffering throughout our history.

 

[Younigue]

I have a friend who is an English major and she did her dissertation on how in Americans use the term shit bad to describe others when expressing their inner selves. She calls me up on the phone and called me shit bag seven times when she’s feeling down and needs a hug. She loves me, you see, because she says most people respond to her by calling her a raging psycho bitch. Then there was the Zen master who used to say, if you have a shit bag I will give you one and if you haven’t got one I’ll take it away.

PS: whm has posted some masterpieces of fucked up poor grammar to the point where I have had to reread several times some of the stuff he has posted to make sense of it. Leave it to a slash and burn master like yourself to turn my suspicion as to why into something intended to be mean. My intention was to cut him some slack or start asking what the fuck he’s actually intending to say. He chose to deny he has a problem and your pathetic need to suck up to him isn’t going to change that. The coward chose to deny what is easily falsifiable and easily evident in his posts here. And he never answered the question as to whether he is a native speaker.

I am interested in addressing what someone intends to say and if what they say seems not to be what they intend I want to know why so I don’t go off addressing something said but incorrectly. I want to know if a person is unclear because they don’t know how to say what they mean because they aren’t native speakers, are unsophisticated with the written word, are literary beyond my comprehension, or perhaps puke on the page and don’t give a shit.
Profoundly unlike you, I want to treat who I am talking to as the person who is actually there. What I know so far now is that I whm is a person who has written poorly in a number of posts for some reason and seems inclined to deny it. I don’t give a fuck about pointing out these things to him. I give a fuck about whether I will not get what he says and if I need or should ask for clarification. What you and he do is to turn everything into an attack against you because I cause you to feel about yourselves exactly what you really do feel.

I don't feel attacked in the slightest. Were you attacking me? I don't even feel my way of being is being attacked. You just don't have the goods to achieve such a thing. You're ego misleads you on the regular.

 

[Moonbeam]

So now that we have seen the effects of true believers, those who know theirs is the one and only true way, we can maybe see it is this clinging to what we have been taught or taught ourselves to believe, the need it fills to imagine oneself as the source of the only true light, we can reflect on the fact that not all of us could be possibly right, but to be wrong would imply that we are as worthless as all those false believers out there we demonized to our personal glory. It isn’t that Catholicism or Islam is better or worst, they were once bridges that could only be crossed by the death of ego but have been captured by the very evil they were intended to transcend. The ego is there to provide a feeling of superiority to others as a result of childhood traumat experience of having been verbally and likely physically intimidated for putative bad behavior, suppressed out of consciousness as the only option to survive that pain. This is the opening of a bottomless pit of need for self validation based on competition with others. My religion is better than yours, my science is better than yours, endlessly. “The other must go down, must be done grated and humiliated for me to go up. The truth is what I and I alone believe and I bring it to you as your savior.”

Nope. We are just projecting the humiliation shown to us back to others in revenge for what we have suffered, and what we suffer from is denial that we believe in lies. The problem isn’t out there in religion or science or politics or anything else. The problem is me, and in your case, you. We have met the enemy, as you have heard said. The enemy is us. This is why. What we do in the name of our own moral certainty is pass on the put down disease. The other is evil, but but but, you are the other to me. As we sow, so shall we reap. If you want to know the source of your panic terror and revulsion and moral outrage, you need only look in the mirror.

But if you can keep your eyes from averting into day dreams, you will see the origin and existence of angels with bound up wings. To see, to feel the terrible crucifixion that happened there is to break those chains. And along the way don’t forget to remember you are actually a perfect angle in waiting. No need to humiliate others and call them names. Our iimagined self superiority is only a joke.

 

[whm1974]

I don't feel attacked in the slightest. Were you attacking me? I don't even feel my way of being is being attacked. You just don't have the goods to achieve such a thing. You're ego misleads you on the regular.

I will admit my grammar isn't perfect, but at least I am not posting nonsense like those two.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't feel attacked in the slightest. Were you attacking me? I don't even feel my way of being is being attacked. You just don't have the goods to achieve such a thing. You're ego misleads you on the regular.

Yes Dear. Think of me as the door mat you step over so as not to soil your feet. Land sakes,I just don’t know what came over me. Oh, and congratulations; you undampen really fast.

 

[Moonbeam]

I will admit my grammar isn't perfect, but at least I am not posting nonsense like those two.

Good news on the grammar. I will now ask you to rephrase if I have any doubt as to what you intend.

As to the nonsense part it seems you have further to go. While it is true you are not posting nonsense like me, to keep this as my personal reaction to this, you are actually the one posting nonsense, and the only one doing so. You simple see what I say as nonsense because you have fallen in love with the notion that you know nonsense when you see it and the great gift, not nonsense, that I handed you and you dropped, was that what I have suggested about your condition is the actual truth. Why do you think your notions of what is nonsensical include what I say. What if in fact you are truth wise brainwashed and are incapable of distinguishing truth from lie.

What if you are poorly equipped to differentiate fiction from nonfiction and would feel humiliation by such a self realization.

And have you noticed that I have claimed to have faced just that kind of humiliating realization about myself long ago and that having done so produced in me some slight trepidation in the value of my opinions.

All I can tell you is that I value the opinions of people who have acquired some sense of modesty in the value of their opinions than I do with people like yourself that cock sure of themselves.

I do regret but have to confess, that I am myself, cock sure of what I just said. I plead ‘reasons’.

 

[Younigue]

Yes Dear. Think of me as the door mat you step over so as not to soil your feet. Land sakes,I just don’t know what came over me. Oh, and congratulations; you undampen really fast.

It's one of my gifts, thanks for noticing. I stated in one of my earlier posts that I don't suffer toxic people or fools, you are both.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's one of my gifts, thanks for noticing. I stated in one of my earlier posts that I don't suffer toxic people or fools, you are both.

I’m not convinced. It strikes me as egotistically childish to tramps around bragging about your while proclaiming you don’t suffer fools. I thought you loved yourself as you are. Seems to me that loving yourself as you are and not suffering fools are incompatible statements. I think you feel so toxic that your driven to manifest that toxcisity just to delight in that denial. You remind mea lot of Donald Trump. I bet when you look at him it’s an opportunity to hate your guts vicariously.

I wish the truth were easier to face, but you keep pushing to look in the mirror. Don’t push beyond what you can take. You may not be the only person around that doesn’t suffer fools lightly, but my capacity to do so far exceeds your own. But you may suffer from the greater self deception. And remember, never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you to death with experience. You can add that to one of the fools errands you happily jumped on with both feet.

 

[Noah Abrams]

See what? That is nothing that can done about suffering and just accept it without question? Bullshit, we can and have reduced overall suffering throughout our history.

Firstly, things always get lost in translation. The Sanskrit word 'dukkha' can be broadly translated as a level of dissatisfaction. Which in turn means suffering at a broader level.

Secondly, I suggested to you to look more into Buddhism. Your post above is an instinctive, attacking reaction. I am not trying to belittle you or anything, so there is no need for you to be so defensive. Life is dukkha does not at all mean what your reaction above would seem to imply. So again I'd suggest what I suggested at the beginning of this paragraph.

But...but...if you too are on this forum for the same reasons that most of the people are - ask yourself first the question why you are here - then let me know. I'd then refrain from engaging in this sort of conversation with you. Thank you.

 

[Noah Abrams]

And have you noticed that I have claimed to have faced just that kind of humiliating realization about myself long ago and that having done so produced in me some slight trepidation in the value of my opinions.

All I can tell you is that I value the opinions of people who have acquired some sense of modesty in the value of their opinions than I do with people like yourself that cock sure of themselves.

I do regret but have to confess, that I am myself, cock sure of what I just said. I plead ‘reasons’.

This brings me to this question I've been meaning to ask you. I remember you saying to someone on this forum, along the lines of : whatever you believed at any stage of your life, at that time, you were completely sure and certain of those beliefs. So how sure you are of your current beliefs?

I thought that was a very remarkable question, which really got me thinking. So the question is, is it possible that your entire current framework of belief - the various but ultimately connected things you talk about - for example, that there is no duality, there is no lover and beloved, and so on - is it possible that this entire framework you may come to reject at a later time?

How can one be sure of anything - I guess that is what it comes down to. Which is humbling in a good sense, but also unsettling.

 

[Moonbeam]

This brings me to this question I've been meaning to ask you. I remember you saying to someone on this forum, along the lines of : whatever you believed at any stage of your life, at that time, you were completely sure and certain of those beliefs. So how sure you are of your current beliefs?

I thought that was a very remarkable question, which really got me thinking. So the question is, is it possible that your entire current framework of belief - the various but ultimately connected things you talk about - for example, that there is no duality, there is no lover and beloved, and so on - is it possible that this entire framework you may come to reject at a later time?

How can one be sure of anything - I guess that is what it comes down to. Which is humbling in a good sense, but also unsettling.

Hehe. I do not recall the instance in which I said what you describe so I will have to look at it as if it were said by somebody else. It feels right. It is something I can relate to. I used to believe in the good, that to believe in it was the most important thing in the world, and that good exists and could be proven by the existence of God. I believed in God and the goodness of love and depended on that belief to shield me from all the suffering and misery I saw and experienced in the world around me. It was my salvation and it was my ruination because, when I started to look for proof that God exists, to end all doubt and to have the ultimate safety of certainty, I failed. The world went black. So I used to know but I found out that I didn’t. And what I lost was the belief that I could possibly ever be happy or believe in anything that could make me happy again. Total blackness and despair. I was a walking bleeding wound.

Now as you can likely imagine there may be something more wrong with somebody having such issues than what they define as the problem, but i’ll leave that for later.

So, as I said, in my search for a way out of the misery of the collapse of faith, I ran into a happy band of little campers, frolicking around in the exact same miserable godless joyless world as I was in, but they were laughing their asses off with their bullshit stories of strawberries and pumpkins and they were fucking with all of my assumptions. Those assholes threw me into a rage but I could not get them out of my mind. What the fuck was happening there.

Well, I have described that I found the strawberry so we will not go over that part, but it turned my world upside down, or rather right side up. The need for meaning, for God, for certainty, for truth, for truth in the good is as meaningless as any other emotional longing. Joy and love are the natural state of the true self and can easily be hidden and separated from, but can never be lost. We are God. We were created in His image and we created Him in ours.

So the problem with truth is that it the closer you come to it, the greater the paradox you face . Down is up. To suffer is to not suffer, knowing is not knowing, ego is inferiority, etc.

So to your question as to how I can know I am certain now about what I say isn’t that I am or can’t. It is that the need for certainty, the fear of doubt, cease to exist. All those things are problems for prisoners of the false self.

To not know anything doesn’t mean you don’t know facts or have information or opinions or that new information may supplant old. It is that you notice a non attachment to them for the sake of ego building that too many suffer from. Maybe free range cows instead of sacred ones, I don’t know.

 

[Incorruptible]

Stop reading Christian propaganda sites, they make you even more uninformed than you already are on a multitude of unrelated subjects.

I dont really care about the sexual behaviour of a historical figure from 1500 years ago. Who knows what Jesus got up to, we dont have much historical information on him. And no, the Bible isn;t a historical document, and it was heavily edited in 400 AD to remove many of the contradictory Gospels.

Take a look at those African Christians are getting up to these days then get back to us.

You got nothing so you resort to insults. You don't care because you support him, I haven't seen you condemn this. The reason I brought this up is because in Islam he is taught to be the perfect man even though he married a 7 year old little girl.

Take a look at those African Muslims are getting up to these days then get back to us

 

[Puffnstuff]

All I can say is that in my humble experience religion always seems to stir up trouble no matter who the source is.

 

[Moonbeam]

All I can say is that in my humble experience religion always seems to stir up trouble no matter who the source is.

It's bound to happen, I suppose, because only one of them is true or there's no truth in any of them. I did hear once about some Buddhist sect that claimed it wasn't the only religion, but that it was their religion. Always the odd ball here and there.