Is Bush's goal to suck California dry?

[Red Dawn]

<< arguing that imposed caps would discourage construction of new generating facilities needed to solve California's power crisis over the long term. >>

We've already gotten the construction of more power plants set in motion,price Caps aren't going to stop them. We have four going on line this summer and four more next summer with an additional due to be completed by 2003. Bush and his Enenrgy Handlers aren;t worried the least by the American People, they are just worried about ling their pockets.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< arguing that imposed caps would discourage construction of new generating facilities needed to solve California's power crisis over the long term. >>

We've already gotten the construction of more power plants set in motion,price Caps aren't going to stop them. We have four going on line this summer and four more next summer with an additional due to be completed by 2003. Bush and his Enenrgy Handlers aren;t worried the least by the American People, they are just worried about ling their pockets.

 

[etech]

TS, at least I am using my head to talk instead of the other orifice that you use.

Red, I know how you hate to back up the rhertoric that you sling, but do you have some proof to back up your statement &quot;Bush and his Enenrgy Handlers aren;t worried the least by the American People, they are just worried about ling their pockets.&quot;

&quot;facilities needed to solve California's power crisis over the long term.&quot;

Red, it the short term outlook that got California into this problem, don't you think it is time to look out more then a year or two at a time?

 

[etech]

Just in for all the pundits that thought Putin would tear Pres. Bush a new one.

Bush, Putin's First Talks Off to An Upbeat Start
BRDO PRI KRANJU, Slovenia (Reuters) - President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin began their first face-to-face meeting on Saturday saying they had formed a good impression of one another.
Standing side by side on a terrace of the Brdo Castle outside Ljubljana, Putin said he had a ``good first impression'' of Bush, the former Texas governor who took office five months ago. Bush chuckled and told reporters: ``I rest my case.''

 

[Red Dawn]

Etech, we are talking about temporary Price Caps until the crisis is over. It really doesn't matter what we say here, it'll be up to the courts to decide. It's believed by California's Legal Analysts that FERC is bound by law to impose Price Caps when the Enenrgy Suppliers break the law by charging usuary prices for their energy. If it's proven that's the case then the law must be applied.



<< Bush chuckled and told reporters: ``I rest my case.'' >>

Putin, ex head of the KGB. Now there's a man whose word can be trusted

 

[etech]

.latimes.com/

Price Controls Spark Deja Vu
Energy: The specter of Richard Nixon's actions 30 years ago hangs over current debate on how to check the state's surging power costs.

It's an interesting debate Red, there are arguments for both sides.

>>A debate now rages in California over whether price controls should be adopted to stem the state's soaring power costs and help consumers who are bracing for huge spikes in their electric bills.
But price controls are one of the most controversial actions in economics--and in politics, for that matter. And now the caps are more in dispute than ever because they run counter to the nation's move over the last two decades to deregulate more and more industries, from airlines to railroads to energy.
Yet California is a good example of deregulation gone haywire, so controls are again being demanded by lawmakers, consumer advocates and others as a way to check surging prices. On the other side is a chorus of critics who ridicule price caps as being ineffective and, at times, making matters worse for consumers.
Case in point: the Golden State itself, which tried last summer to use temporary price caps to keep a lid on skyrocketing wholesale electricity prices.
Critics claim that the caps drove power sales out of state, thus widening the imbalance between supply and demand, reinforcing the existing shortages and contributing to this winter's rolling blackouts.
But defenders of the caps note that the dysfunctional California market had no way to self-correct. The utilities couldn't simply refuse to buy electricity in the face of higher prices, and with no price ceiling in sight, something had to be done.<<

I tend to side with the ones that believe that caps will not help conservation and keep demand higher which will cause even more problems with an overstrained infrastructure.

>>Mindful of the controversial history of controls, Feinstein and Smith stressed that the caps would last only through March 1, 2003. But they also argued that the economic damage to industries and consumers from escalating power costs would exceed any harm caused by price controls.
<<

Note temporary is until 2003, not just this summer.


BTW, Red, why would you call the President of Russia a man who's word cannot be trusted? Just trying to make another point or do you know something you would like to share with the rest of us.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< BTW, Red, why would you call the President of Russia a man who's word cannot be trusted? >>

Well seeing that he spent most of his proffesional career trying to undermine us, I would think that he has a healthy distrust of anything American. If I were him I'd say anything to get American aid then once I got it I'd do what I pleased anyway. Trusting him would be like trusting Chairman Ping Pong of China. The only way I'd trust any of them would be if they were in my crosshairs. They aren't our Allies, they are our adversaries.




<< I tend to side with the ones that believe that caps will not help conservation and keep demand higher which will cause even more problems with an overstrained infrastructure >>

Why would you even care? We aren't talking about Oklahoma and what happens here can only effect you if our economy goes into a deep recession which would drag the rest of the country into a deep recession.

As for Conservation, just because there is price caps that doesn't mean the conservation efforts will cease. We've already cut our energy usuage by 13% from this time last year. If there is a state that is well versed in conserving it's California.

 

[Aihyah]

you guys are forgetting how the new russia works Old russia = start off with NYET! and work from there... new russia..start off with ok good and work towards NYET!(hope i'm spelling it somewhat correctly ) so putin isn't going to tear bush a new one, he'll just be in his way when bush turns his back

 

[etech]

Aihyah, cute, absolutely non-factual, but cute nonetheless.


Red, &quot;Why would you even care?&quot; What is the title of this thread? I do not believe that is the case and also would rather be under a Republican administration then a democratic one. Since someone who has done no research might believe that false contention I responded.

About Putin, you are correct. But also the cold war is over. New alliances and friendships are there to be made. While it is prudent to know of the past it is also foolish to live in the past.

&quot;As for Conservation, just because there is price caps that doesn't mean the conservation efforts will cease. We've already cut our energy usuage by 13% from this time last year. If there is a state that is well versed in conserving it's California.&quot;

True, but how much of that conservation is due to the higher prices and not the California's governments exhortations to save energy. If the prices were low I do not believe the amount of energy saved would be that high.

 

[Aihyah]

from what i've read california consumers used less energy even b4 the problems started i have all flourcent lighting for instance

 

[djchemistry]

Hahaha, I switched all my lights to halogens just to piss off the democrats around me. I live in Berkeley, the bastion of liberalism in this state, and I can't stand it when democrats blame a Bush who's only been in office 5 months for an energy crises that started more than a year and a half ago. I also love to read what Davis has been trying to do in the papers. All the headlines seem to promote such optimism about our Democrat Governor but surprisingly the power still goes out when I get home from school. How about blaming the governor of a state for his state's problems? Is that such a novel concept? Since when did being governor equate to being vice president? The governor should have the blame and the balls to tackle the problems in his state. And so far, Davis has still not done anything except deflect the blame on the new president.

Hm...I could continue this rant in a new thread but I also know that no one man is to blame for the sheer stupidity that is california government so I'll give Davis a break, unlike some of you who think inaction to stop a LAW by Bush equals to a deep hatred and resentment for anything and everything californian. What a joke.

 

[djchemistry]

Oh and did I mention Gray Davis looks like David Spade? hehehe...what a sucker. SNL would kill to have that guy in the white house.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< but how much of that conservation is due to the higher prices and not the California's governments exhortations to save energy. If the prices were low I do not believe the amount of energy saved would be that high. >>

Again, you act like what you personally believe makes a difference. We have already changed our habits before any of the price increases have trickled down to our bills. It's the blackouts that we are trying to avoid. The high costs were just by product of the Energy Companies gouging us in their effort to take advantage of the situation to pad their profits.

 

[etech]

Red,&quot;The high costs were just by product of the Energy Companies gouging us in their effort to take advantage of the situation to pad their profits.&quot;

The 10 years of not building any new power plants and the asinine deregulation plan had nothing to do with it.

Sorry Red, but that reminds me of when I catch one of my kids doing something wrong and they sit there and say &quot;I didn't do it&quot; and try and put the blame on someone else.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Sorry Red, but that reminds me of when I catch one of my kids doing something wrong and they sit there and say &quot;I didn't do it&quot; and try and put the blame on someone else. >>

You are sorry, it's not up to you and those like you to judge.

 

[etech]

You?re right Red, because I am from Oklahoma(the state that had our Federal building blown up as you pointed out earlier) I can have no opinion on the great state of California. In fact there should be no discussion about any thing on this board that puts anything about California in any sort of a bad light. We all know that everything is perfect there and anyone from anywhere else in the United States should bow down and thank God for the perfection that is California. We wankers and knuckledragging brain farting toothless inbreds from other states should acknowledge and be grateful for the great examples that the Californians have set for us.



latimes.com/
&quot;Last summer, Houston-based Enron and several other firms offered to sell power to California's utilities for just five years at about $50 a megawatt-hour, according to Mark Palmer, an Enron spokesman.&quot;

 

[Red Dawn]

<< You?re right Red, because I am from Oklahoma(the state that had our Federal building blown up as you pointed out earlier) I can have no opinion on the great state of California >>

You can have all the opinions you want, but when you make comments that we are like your children who were caught doing something they should not have been, it is very condescending and arrogant. Obviously, you are under the impression that we here are a bunch of frivolous individuals. Either you have been feed some hooey about us here or you are clueless.

 

[etech]

Dang nab it Red, when you're right you're right, California had absolutely nothing to due with the energy shortage they are facing, it is all due to the Republiklans and those damn nasty money grubbing gouging power companies conspiring against all of you. Thanks for showing me the light.
Your lights are on out there aren?t they?

 

[Red Dawn]

<< California had absolutely nothing to due with the energy shortage they are facing, it is all due to the Republiklans and those damn nasty money grubbing gouging power companies conspiring against all of you. >>

Obviously you have only been listening to yourself. Like your mistaken view of us Californians, your provacative accusations of Californians blaming others for our energy problem is ludicrous at best and an outright lie at worse.

 

[etech]

Let me see if I understand you Red. You are saying that no Californian on this board has blamed the Republicans or the energy companies for the energy problems that California is facing.

Is that the gist of what you are saying?

 

[MrPALCO]

<< The high costs were just by product of the Energy Companies gouging us in their effort to take advantage of the situation to pad their profits. >>



Maybe the State should pass a law that prohibits any energy producing company from earning a profit.

Would this make the anti business freaks happy?

It might, but the lights would go out in short order.

Let the free market decide when the price is too high. You are getting gouged now because you screwed up years ago. Take your medicine now and fix it, or it will get much worse.

 

[Michael]

Red Dawn - I'm living in California and I think that 1) no price caps should be put in place, 2) proper investigations of the power companies should be completed to ensure that they have not violated the law, and 3) all Californians from all political parities and the power companies share in the blame.

I firmly believe that this is a California caused problem and that we should solve it without whining to Washington about it.

Michael

 

[MrPALCO]

Price gouging is the way a free market punishes foolish business decisions. If the gouging is illegal, that is another matter. However, when government decides when a price is too high, that is a recipe for disaster.

If you had planned properly, you would not be in the position to have to buy power at a premium.

Take your medicine, and begin to plan so that it won't happen again.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< all Californians from all political parities and the power companies share in the blame. >>

Ain't that the truth Michael.



<< Let the free market decide when the price is too high >>

Tell me Corky,when the power supplies are manipulated as a result of Collusion by the Power Generators how can that be defined as a &quot;Free Market&quot;? If price caps are put into place it's only because the Power Generators Pricing Schmems will have been proven to be usuary and that they have broken the law and in turn have shown themselves as an entity that can't be trusted to obey the law.



<< Price gouging is the way a free market punishes foolish business decisions. >>

Hey Corky, Price Gouging is not an aspect of a &quot;Free Market&quot;



<< If the gouging is illegal, that is another matter. >>

Recently the good citizens of Texas have been hit with Flooding. Because of this the Water Supplies have been fouled and Drinking water has to be purchased from Abdul and his Brothers Corner Markets. Now Abdul and his brother Ali,Mahet and Akeem who each own 10 corner Markets, decide to take advantage of the situation by raising the Price of their Bottle Drinking water 1000%. They claim that supply and demand is the reason for this increase even though they are making a killing profit wise. They claim that they are well within their rights because the supply is short and that the people who were hit with the floods were foolish because they didn't stock up on fresh bottled drinking water even though they live in area's that are often hit by floods. Are they within their rights charging as much as they do?

 

[chainbolt]

Prez Bushinsky is a good guy, he just doesn't like CA, all the intellectuals ...