Is Barry Bonds guilty?

[NoStateofMind]

Do you think Barry Bonds used steroids? I think he did. All of his baseball career should be wiped off the books IMO.

 

[dbk]

let's keep the poll clean guys

 

[LS21]

pete rose > barry bonds. i hope his head explodes

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: dbk
let's keep the poll clean guys

Huh?

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: dbk
let's keep the poll clean guys

that's what she said!

 

[darkswordsman17]

How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

 

[rbV5]

Of course he's guilty....Who the hell would watch pro baseball if not for steroids?

Wipe his career in the books if you can verify that everyone who remains in the baseball record books never took performance enhancing drugs while playing pro baseball 😉

 

[HardcoreRobot]

i think he is, along with the majority of the athletes in sport from that era. you cant undo the stats, and that whole generation of baseball and all its players will have an asterisk, whether it is formal or not

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

yet you still didn't answer his question.

How can you be guilty of something that wasn't illegal at the time? And them not being steroids IS important. HGH != steroids.

Thats like saying "heroin" "advil" doesn't matter, same shit.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

yet you still didn't answer his question.

How can you be guilty of something that wasn't illegal at the time? And them not being steroids IS important. HGH != steroids.

Thats like saying "heroin" "advil" doesn't matter, same shit.

Would Barry Bonds be the sole homerun leader if it were not for those PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS? I do not think so. As to its legality, you can argue it wasn't illegal all day long. But now that it IS illegal, how are people who do not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS ever able to break the records set by those who did use it? Exactly. Its an uneven playing field.

 

[Deeko]

I think he used PEDs, and I don't give a shit. Its completely absurd to erase his records.

 

[dbk]

I guess he's not technically guilty for taking the drugs when they weren't illegal back in the day. He is guilty of committing perjury though

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

yet you still didn't answer his question.

How can you be guilty of something that wasn't illegal at the time? And them not being steroids IS important. HGH != steroids.

Thats like saying "heroin" "advil" doesn't matter, same shit.

Yes it was illegal. That is why the shop that made and sold them was shut down and the owner was put in jail. Just because MLB did not spell out everything illegal it was against the law and illegal.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

yet you still didn't answer his question.

How can you be guilty of something that wasn't illegal at the time? And them not being steroids IS important. HGH != steroids.

Thats like saying "heroin" "advil" doesn't matter, same shit.

argu
Would Barry Bonds be the sole homerun leader if it were not for those PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS? I do not think so. As to its legality, you can argue it wasn't illegal all day long. But now that it IS illegal, how are people who do not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS ever able to break the records set by those who did use it? Exactly. Its an uneven playing field.

Terrible argument. All of baseball is an uneven playing field. The mound was higher in 1968. Ruth didn't have to play against black people, Aaron used amphetamines to keep up his stamina. The entire dead ball era, 154 games. To say that it creates an uneven playing field is nonsense.

Also, before Barry started juicing, he was a hall of fame player, no question. Erasing anyone's stats is fucking stupid. Back off of my sport ;P

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Would Barry Bonds be the sole homerun leader if it were not for those PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS? I do not think so. As to its legality, you can argue it wasn't illegal all day long. But now that it IS illegal, how are people who do not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS ever able to break the records set by those who did use it? Exactly. Its an uneven playing field.

hahahah, that's fucking stupid.

Should we invalidate all records from before Gatorade was invented? Unfair advantage to the current players!

Should we invalidate all records from players who play in parks that are easier to hit home runs in? Unfair advantage!

etc etc....its NEVER the same playing field in different eras. Deal with it.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Would Barry Bonds be the sole homerun leader if it were not for those PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS? I do not think so. As to its legality, you can argue it wasn't illegal all day long. But now that it IS illegal, how are people who do not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS ever able to break the records set by those who did use it? Exactly. Its an uneven playing field.

hahahah, that's fucking stupid.

Should we invalidate all records from before Gatorade was invented? Unfair advantage to the current players!

Should we invalidate all records from players who play in parks that are easier to hit home runs in? Unfair advantage!

etc etc....its NEVER the same playing field in different eras. Deal with it.

Differance is none of what you just posted is against the law. And every player had those areas and items freely and legal.

Not even close.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Terrible argument. All of baseball is an even playing field. The mound was higher in 1968. Ruth didn't have to play against black people, Aaron used amphetamines to keep up his stamina. The entire dead ball era - 154 games. To say that it creates an uneven playing field is nonsense.

Sure there have been changes in baseball but none to the effect of what Bonds used.

Also, before Barry started juicing, he was a hall of fame player, no question. Erasing anyone's stats is fucking stupid. Back off of my sport ;P

LOL

You will get no argument from me that Barry Bonds was a HOF player before taking "the juice". The fact that he used it when already being that type of player only made him godly on the field.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Would Barry Bonds be the sole homerun leader if it were not for those PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS? I do not think so. As to its legality, you can argue it wasn't illegal all day long. But now that it IS illegal, how are people who do not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS ever able to break the records set by those who did use it? Exactly. Its an uneven playing field.

hahahah, that's fucking stupid.

Should we invalidate all records from before Gatorade was invented? Unfair advantage to the current players!

Should we invalidate all records from players who play in parks that are easier to hit home runs in? Unfair advantage!

etc etc....its NEVER the same playing field in different eras. Deal with it.

Differance is none of what you just posted is against the law. And every player had those areas and items freely and legal.

Not even close.

It a perfectly apt analogy. The "uneven playing field" argument is stupid and can't be used, ever, in any sport. Like I said - its NEVER, EVER an even playing field.

Per the legal aspect - should we remove Lawrence Taylor from the NFL Hall of Fame?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

No it is not nitpicking. Sorry if you can't understand the difference, but if you're going to go around trying to tear people down over it then at least fucking get it right. You sound like the atypical media dipshit labeling everything incorrectly just because OMG steroids gets more publicity.

It's not my fault you somehow construed it was factually (with evidence) proven that he took them when I didn't say that.

People need to get off their high horse. We may as well put an asterisk next to every athletes name as time goes on modern athletes reap the benefits of modern medicine/technology. There are a ton of athletes that wouldn't even have careers if it weren't for modern surgery/rehabilitation methods.

Records don't mean shit except when comparing to athletes of the same period of time. It doesn't make any sense to compare what Bonds accomplished with what Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron did.

 

[rbV5]

Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

No it is not nitpicking. Sorry if you can't understand the difference, but if you're going to go around trying to tear people down over it then at least fucking get it right. You sound like the atypical media dipshit labeling everything incorrectly just because OMG steroids gets more publicity.

It's not my fault you somehow construed it was factually (with evidence) proven that he took them when I didn't say that.

People need to get off their high horse. We may as well put an asterisk next to every athletes name as time goes on modern athletes reap the benefits of modern medicine/technology. There are a ton of athletes that wouldn't even have careers if it weren't for modern surgery/rehabilitation methods.

Records don't mean shit except when comparing to athletes of the same period of time. It doesn't make any sense to compare what Bonds accomplished with what Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron did.

ok.

 

[SunnyD]

Who gives a shit? It's a game. The federal government shouldn't be wasting my tax dollars on it. PERIOD.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Who gives a shit? It's a game. The federal government shouldn't be wasting my tax dollars on it. PERIOD.

I agree with that but we are beyond the point of no return.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

exactly... why single out bonds for soomething that 70% of the entire sport was doing??