Is Barry Bonds guilty?

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

He was not being walked before he juiced. Also most pitchers did not juice like him. Very few went as long and keep their stats up like Clemans. So a couple do not = most.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

exactly... why single out bonds for soomething that 70% of the entire sport was doing??

Yup. People make a big deal out of it because Bonds is the best - what about all the players that wouldn't even be in the league if they weren't on something? We don't care about them? What about all the players that are on new drugs that we don't know about that are undetectable? We're just going to let that slide?

Bonds takes all this extra heat because A) he's better than everyone even without them and B) he's an asshole. Its absurd.

 

[Baked]

He had monster numbers back in Pittsburgh before he signed w/ the Giants, he had monster numbers as a Giant before he bulked up. You can't erase all of the man's record just 'cause he took some supplements to keep himself competitive when he grew older. The media is blowing the whole thing outta proportion and wanna lynch him 'cause he's not one of those guys who like to suck up to the reporters/writers/public. If you wanna nitpick, you might as well erase all the records in Cooperstown, 'cause you know those guys on the plaques did all sorts of crazy shit to get competitive and make modern day athletes look like 1st graders.

 

[BassBomb]

We should let it all be legal, find the bounds of human physical performance...

I'm kidding, really I don't get why people will usually try to exploit the rules or loopholes of a game or try to get ahead in some manner that is cheating. I don't get why people cheat in any game

 

[compuwiz1]

He used so many roids that his dog was effected 😛

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

exactly... why single out bonds for soomething that 70% of the entire sport was doing??

Yup. People make a big deal out of it because Bonds is the best - what about all the players that wouldn't even be in the league if they weren't on something? We don't care about them? What about all the players that are on new drugs that we don't know about that are undetectable? We're just going to let that slide?

Bonds takes all this extra heat because someone is a pirates fan, and wants to cry in soiled diapers that bonds left for more money.

 

[sao123]

PC Surgeon
Politics and News Moderator

now it all makes sense... this is Off Topic... i think you clicked 1 link too far north.
<--------------

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

exactly... why single out bonds for soomething that 70% of the entire sport was doing??

Yup. People make a big deal out of it because Bonds is the best - what about all the players that wouldn't even be in the league if they weren't on something? We don't care about them? What about all the players that are on new drugs that we don't know about that are undetectable? We're just going to let that slide?

Bonds takes all this extra heat because A) he's better than everyone even without them and B) he's an asshole. Its absurd.

I think the reason noone focuses on the other players is because they did not break any records. They will just go down as your avergae MLB player. I think we should just make 2 leagues. A juiced league and a natural league 🙂

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
Who gives a shit? It's a game. The federal government shouldn't be wasting my tax dollars on it. PERIOD.

I agree with this 100%. Steroid use in Baseball is a MLB issue and Not a United States gov't issue.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

He's more guilty IMO than Pete Rose of cheating baseball and its fans.

Sure it may have been everywhere and those caught should face the same penalty. You will not catch every single one but you do prosecute those you do catch. Barry Bonds just happens to be one of them. Get over it.

"Performance enhancing drugs" "steroids" doesn't matter, same shit. You want to go find out which exact drug it was then have at it, everyone knows what is meant you are just nitpicking.

So it has been "proven" that he took "PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS"? I haven't heard of that.

yet you still didn't answer his question.

How can you be guilty of something that wasn't illegal at the time? And them not being steroids IS important. HGH != steroids.

Thats like saying "heroin" "advil" doesn't matter, same shit.

Would Barry Bonds be the sole homerun leader if it were not for those PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS? I do not think so. As to its legality, you can argue it wasn't illegal all day long. But now that it IS illegal, how are people who do not use PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS ever able to break the records set by those who did use it? Exactly. Its an uneven playing field.

Again, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH ANYTHING I SAID (typing in caps is fun, is this how P&N works?)

How is someone going to beat it? Ever heard of this dude A-rod? He's pretty solid, I think he might actually be an all-star one day.

If he is found guilty of doing something that wasn't illegal when he did it, guess what will happen......absolutely nothing. Gambling was illegal when Rose did it, hence the ban.

You make 0 sense.


Edit- Also, until they can 100% prove who was on the shit and who wasn't, you cannot "erase" any stats. How many pitchers used it? How many times did a juiced batter face a juiced pitcher? You either have to remove all stats from the entire era, since you have no way of fully knowing who was using. Or, just note that this era had this substance that may have inflated stats for certain players.

 

[sash1]

yes: 52
no: 0

 

[tenthumbs]

I don't care to spend much time debating Bonds now. He's his own worst enemy and karma is really working against him now. I cringed every time I heard him interviewed. I wanted to like him but that's just not possible for me. He's out of the league and out of my realm of care.

However, as a baseball fan and Giants fan, I miss the excitement he brought to every single at bat. He was incredible and I'm glad I had the chance to watch him play.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Again, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH ANYTHING I SAID (typing in caps is fun, is this how P&N works?)

How is someone going to beat it? Ever heard of this dude A-rod? He's pretty solid, I think he might actually be an all-star one day.

If he is found guilty of doing something that wasn't illegal when he did it, guess what will happen......absolutely nothing. Gambling was illegal when Rose did it, hence the ban.

You make 0 sense.


Edit- Also, until they can 100% prove who was on the shit and who wasn't, you cannot "erase" any stats. How many pitchers used it? How many times did a juiced batter face a juiced pitcher? You either have to remove all stats from the entire era, since you have no way of fully knowing who was using. Or, just note that this era had this substance that may have inflated stats for certain players.

ok.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

This is the most one-sided poll I have ever seen on these forums. All that will change once Classy shows up.

I think Bonds clearly cheated, but many others have as well. I say those who can be confirmed to have cheated should be permanently out of the sport, since I consider it a worse offense than Rose's gambling. It isn't realistic to completely eliminate their stats, so I prefer a "*".

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: ric1287

Again, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH ANYTHING I SAID (typing in caps is fun, is this how P&N works?)

How is someone going to beat it? Ever heard of this dude A-rod? He's pretty solid, I think he might actually be an all-star one day.

If he is found guilty of doing something that wasn't illegal when he did it, guess what will happen......absolutely nothing. Gambling was illegal when Rose did it, hence the ban.

You make 0 sense.


Edit- Also, until they can 100% prove who was on the shit and who wasn't, you cannot "erase" any stats. How many pitchers used it? How many times did a juiced batter face a juiced pitcher? You either have to remove all stats from the entire era, since you have no way of fully knowing who was using. Or, just note that this era had this substance that may have inflated stats for certain players.

ok.

NO CAPS?

stay in P&N

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

He was not being walked before he juiced. Also most pitchers did not juice like him. Very few went as long and keep their stats up like Clemans. So a couple do not = most.

He may have not been Frank Thomas early on, but he definately drew walks. I'm not sure why you think opposing pitchers other than Rocket didn't juice, or whether it matters if he goes yard against someone who was juiced, but only played a couple years...or juiced, but not like HIM.

Bonds is just hated because he's Barry. He's like the rich Black kid in the white neighborhood driving the corvette that Mommy bought him for his 16th birhtday, getting all the hot chicks. Who doesn't hate(envy) THAT guy?

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: rbV5
Even playing field?...Crist, he hit those home runs off juiced pitchers 😕

Bonds walks alone proves him to be perhaps the greatest slugger of all time drugs or no. He faced better pitchers day in and out of ANY one else on the list, and he did it picking his pitches....who else even came close to that?

He was not being walked before he juiced. Also most pitchers did not juice like him. Very few went as long and keep their stats up like Clemans. So a couple do not = most.

He may have not been Frank Thomas early on, but he definately drew walks. I'm not sure why you think opposing pitchers other than Rocket didn't juice, or whether it matters if he goes yard against someone who was juiced, but only played a couple years...or juiced, but not like HIM.

Bonds is just hated because he's Barry. He's like the rich Black kid in the white neighborhood driving the corvette that Mommy bought him for his 16th birhtday, getting all the hot chicks. Who doesn't hate(envy) THAT guy?

yep, he doesn't help his case being a complete dick...but it doesn't change the fact that he wasn't even close to the only one doing it. He was just the best. You also don't walk him early in his career because he was a good base stealer, you don't walk a guy who is almost guaranteed to steal during the next at bat.

It also doesn't change the fact that nobody else came even close to him. Being strong/healthy does no automatically = 700 homeruns, it still takes and incredible amount of talent to achieve that.

 

[Fiat1]

Only as guilty as Roger Clemens

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17
How can he be guilty if the stuff he used wasn't illegal/banned at the time he used it?

Is he an asshole? Undoubtedly, but you're deluding yourself if you think it wasn't everywhere (and still is to this day). I'm not saying its right, but its kinda stupid to throw a few under the bus when pretty much everyone involved is to blame. While the few who didn't use themselves will be hurt as well, they knew what was going on so they aren't exactly innocent either.

Also, stop calling it steroids. Its not the same thing.

Last thing, if you're going to have a thread about this, at least make it pertinent. He's being investigated for perjury. Everyone already knows he used performance enhancing drugs.

It WAS illegal when he use it. He has admitted using it. Although, he said he "didn't know the Clear contained illegal substances".

Yeah, right.

 

[SludgeFactory]

I kinda don't care any more. This was big news 5 years ago. It's now pretty clear to me that MLB and the NFL were and are overrun with PED users. Bonds is the best of the users, if you want to lock him out of the HOF, then does *anybody* from the last 15 years deserve to get in? Was anybody truly clean? Certain guys are apparently above suspicion because they're uber-popular and "play the game the right way" or some other BS. This is the problem with PED use, you start to question everything and everybody.

And that's exactly why betting on MLB games while playing or managing is the ultimate sin, worse than Barry Bonds. You question every decision and every result. At least with Barry, you knew his roided-out body was going out there every time and trying to win. Gambling brings in the threat of throwing games. When even a whiff of the stench of gambling infiltrates your sport, you're playing with fire, that's why every sport has zero tolerance for it. Baseball had a long history with this in its early years, it culminated famously in 1919, and they had to do major damage control to restore public confidence.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory
And that's exactly why betting on MLB games while playing or managing is the ultimate sin, worse than Barry Bonds. You question every decision and every result. At least with Barry, you knew his roided-out body was going out there every time and trying to win. Gambling brings in the threat of throwing games. When even a whiff of the stench of gambling infiltrates your sport, you're playing with fire, that's why every sport has zero tolerance for it. Baseball had a long history with this in its early years, it culminated famously in 1919, and they had to do major damage control to restore public confidence.

They brought it on themselves, though. You can't make a ton of money and still pay players shit and expect them to be a-ok with it. Thats why it happened back in the day, current gamblers...more about the rush i'd imagine.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: ric1287

NO CAPS?

stay in P&N

Naww, I'll come over here to make your life hell 😀