Is Arafat doing enough?

[BaliBabyDoc]

Can you people ever hold a conversation without calling someone a "retard"? My 2 cents is that it doesn't matter if Palestine is a nation. American colonialism was based in part on the premise that the "savages" might be indigenous but WE have a right to possess the land. Brits were no better in India. Jews occupy Israel b/c the world (primarily Britain) decided they deserved a place to call their own (with due accord given to historical claims). Granted the British also drew fudged-up borders for India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq.

As for Palestine, the people want to have a nation to call their own that respects their historical claim to part of Jerusalem. I can see no reason why their claim is any less valid than what Jews asked for and deservedly received over 5 decades ago. Furthermore, Israel under Netanyahu (and occasionally Barak) actively displaced Palestinians within the occupied territories to establish settlements . . . I wonder who served as their role model?

The analogy might be a stretch but how would modern press write accounts of American settlement of the West? Is scalping a homesteader a terrorist act? Do you attack just people with guns? What imbecile would mount an attack using bows, arrows, and axes against firearms?

Arafat is a lying POS. But most politicians are lying POS . . . Clinton, Bushx2, Reagan. And if you think innocent people have not loss their lives due to decisions made by OUR leaders you're not a retard but certainly ignorant.

 

[Passner]

no, the majority of deaths. Czar are teenage boys who are encouraged to cut school to attack Israeli soldiers with sharp rocks slung at speed approaching 100mph (that is 180kmph for you Czar), and Malatov cocktails. In addition, snipers shooting live ammo often hide directly behind these teens, so when the IDF tries to shoot the sniper, they accidently kill the teen, and boom a blessed martyr is born for their cause, and Western support goes a bit closer to the Palestinain side.

 

[Czar]

soo according to his way of peace, civilian deaths are ok as long as a terrorist is killed in the process, so it does not matter that maybe about 800 civilians were killed because it managed to kill 40 terrorists?

with that sortof attitute is there any hope for peace?

 

[Passner]

Bali, Halogen called me a retard first, if you cannot see that, I can see why you would blindly favor the Palestinian side.

Secondly, you are ignoring the facts. Under Netanyahu, terrorist attacks were at a near all-time low in Israel. You know why? Because Netanyahu made it clear to
Arafat that terrorist activities would not be tolerated, but if he behaved he would agree to many of his demands. As soon as Barak went in to office, the PLO saw someone they could rape for what he was worth,
and all that was gained was lost.

 

[Halogen]

well Israel is invading and Palestinians are blowing themselves up to kill Israelis

after a while they will all just kill each other then there will be no more problem, The End.

 

[Passner]

Czar, the MAJORITY of those Palestinians murdered were not mere civilains. As I stated, most of them were attacking soldiers. Does your Icelandic Bjork of a TV network
ever mention the words "killed in a clash with Israeli soldiers" during your broadcasts? Because in our country they sure do, because that ishow a good many of them die, attacking soldiers. In is not like 40 to 800, it
is more like 100 terrorists killed, 150 civilans, and 500 rioters.

 

[Czar]

<< Czar, the MAJORITY of those Palestinians murdered were not mere civilains. As I stated, most of them were attacking soldiers. Does your Icelandic Bjork of a TV network
ever mention the words "killed in a clash with Israeli soldiers" during your broadcasts? Because in our country they sure do, because that ishow a good many of them die, attacking soldiers. In is not like 40 to 800, it
is more like 100 terrorists killed, 150 civilans, and 500 rioters. >>


When those people are killed they are not killed because they are invading Israel, they are killed because the Israeli army invates Palestine and the Palistinian public acts in the only way they can act towards an invading army. Who is to blame for it? if someone brakes into your house and one of your family member attacks one of the invadors and they end up killing your family member, does that mean that it is your family member to blame? hell no, it was your family members right to defend what is his.

edit.. and 840 Palistinians have died since peace ended in the year 2000, and 240 Israelis.

 

[Passner]

you need to go back to some of my previous posts, because you are just going in circles and making points I already refuted, Czar. Go back and see why Israel occasionally invades those terrotories.
Also, they do not kill innocent civilains there (unless it is accidental), they simply encroach on land, with minimal damage, to do justice to those Arafat will not deal with.

 

[Czar]

<< you need to go back to some of my previous posts, because you are just going in circles and making points I already refuted, Czar. Go back and see why Israel occasionally invades those terrotories.
Also, they do not kill innocent civilains there (unless it is accidental), they simply encroach on land, with minimal damage, to do justice to those Arafat will not deal with. >>


I know very well why the Israeli army invades Palestine, and i´m not going in circles, i´m trying to make you understand their motives for what they do, i know israelis motives.
The only Isreali actions I do not understand are the settlements and the bulldozers, those two make no sense and do nothing but piss of the Palistinians.

There have been to many "accidents" by the Israeli army then.


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20011220/wl/un_palestinians_israel_2.html
good news

 

[Passner]

judging by that link, it looks like more countries than just Iceland suffer from serious anti-Israel or anti-Jew emotions.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I know kids are quite adept at computers but I thought most of the people here were beyond . . .Halogen called me a retard first, if you cannot see that, I can see why you would blindly favor the Palestinian side . . .

My comment was directed at everyone that chooses to insult then presumes someone will listen to what they have to say. Did you read my post or were you just thinking about what YOU were going to say next? Let me refrain . . .As for Palestine, the people want to have a nation to call their own that respects their historical claim to part of Jerusalem. I can see no reason why their claim is any less valid than what Jews asked for and deservedly received over 5 decades ago. Furthermore, Israel under Netanyahu (and occasionally Barak) actively displaced Palestinians within the occupied territories to establish settlements . . .

And you said,
Secondly, you are ignoring the facts. Under Netanyahu, terrorist attacks were at a near all-time low in Israel. You know why? Because Netanyahu made it clear to
Arafat that terrorist activities would not be tolerated, but if he behaved he would agree to many of his demands. As soon as Barak went in to office, the PLO saw someone they could rape for what he was worth,
and all that was gained was lost.
Unfortunately, their aren't any facts to ignore in your statement. A reference that shows actual terrorist attacks during Sharon, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak, and Rabin would be helpful. I doubt your claim b/c most of Israel's terrorist come from the West Bank or Gaza (according to the Israelis) and they get fired up when people are being displaced and resources (like water) are being limited (according to the Palestinians). Essentially all of those administrations responded to attacks with further incursions into the terrorities.

I must agree that Netanyahu had an itchy trigger finger and I do not doubt that Barak was considered "soft" in comparison. But definitive causation requires far more analysis than you have provided. Furthermore, Barak actually participated in summits that teetered perilously close to a Peace Accord . . . Netanyahu wasn't even in the ballpark and if it wasn't for a nut-with-a-gun Rabin might have brought lasting peace to the region.

 

[Czar]

<< judging by that link, it looks like more countries than just Iceland suffer from serious anti-Israel or anti-Jew emotions. >>


ever think that this might not be anti-israel or anti-jew emotions? ever think that israel might be doing something wrong?

think about that

 

[Random Variable]

AHHH!!! Not another Israeli/Palestinian thread!

 

[Passner]

You are right, Israel is doing plenty wrong. They are not doing enough to ensure the safety of their people. If they were a truly concerend nation, they would say screw the UN, and they would go in there and make the Hamas and Islamic Jihad offices mere cinders. Next, they would make sure that everyone involved in these organizations would be the same, so that the Israeli people would not have to live in fear of heinous dispicable acts. It is a shame that innocent Palestinian civilians have died, but there is hardly that outpouring of support among the international community when pizaa becomes intersperced with the body parts of Israeli children.

 

[Czar]

<< AHHH!!! Not another Israeli/Palestinian thread! >>


yeah they are getting a bit tiring .. but they up my post count .. I should be sad realy because I do not want that lifer status

 

[Czar]

<< You are right, Israel is doing plenty wrong. They are not doing enough to ensure the safety of their people. If they were a truly concerend nation, they would say screw the UN, and they would go in there and make the Hamas and Islamic Jihad offices mere cinders. Next, they would make sure that everyone involved in these organizations would be the same, so that the Israeli people would not have to live in fear of heinous dispicable acts. It is a shame that innocent Palestinian civilians have died, but there is hardly that outpouring of support among the international community when pizaa becomes intersperced with the body parts of Israeli children. >>


So you think they are not doing enough?
most of the world thinks not that they are doing enough or too much, but they are doing the wrong things. That is why most of the western world wants to stop Israel, they also want to stop terrorist acts by Palistinian extremist but each problem must be dealt with differently.

 

[Random Variable]

The likelihood that there will ever be peace in the Middle East is comparable to the likelihood that I'll score before I die.

 

[Czar]

<< The likelihood that there will ever be peace in the Middle East is comparable to the likelihood that I'll score before I die. >>


now that is just depressing, first of all I have no doubt that you will score someday, and I have no doubt that there will be peace in the middle east... its just the big question of when

 

[Passner]

popular opinion and reality are as far apart as Mugsy Bogues and Manute Bol. 94% of Americans think Bin Laden did not deserve Man of the Year,
that does not make that majority right. 99% of BBWAA voters thought that Nolan Ryan belonged in Cooperstown, and 81% thought
Lou Brock did. 82% of Arab speakers thought the Bin Laden tape was a forgery.
in the early 1960's nearly 70% of Americans were either moderatly or totally anti-Semetic, and there was a time when the majority of Germany supported the Holocaust.
It is not unheard of that an extreme minority is right, and I feel this is one of those cases. Thank G-d the US doesn't buy into that PA hype.

 

[Random Variable]

<< now that is just depressing, first of all I have no doubt that you will score someday, and I have no doubt that there will be peace in the middle east... its just the big question of when >>


I have already scored (many times in fact ) but...nevermind. It's too complicated to explain.

 

[Halogen]

why would you have to explain, we know what scoring means

 

[Passner]

and the award for most OT post in a thread goes to... Vespasian. j/k more power to ya.

 

[Czar]

You must realise that this is not just a popular opinion, this is the opinion of 133 UN members, only two members agree with your view.








<< I have already scored (many times in fact ) but...nevermind. It's too complicated to explain. >>


a story for another thread

 

[Passner]

popular opinion means the majority, be it 51% or 100%. like I said it doesn't make a differance that 99% of BBWAA voters feel Nolan Ryan belongs in the Hall of Fame, and it doesn't matter that 98% of UN members feel that Israel is overreacting. popular support and "right" are not the same, and here I will support the 2% minority, and am proud to do so.

 

[Czar]

yes popular opinion means the majority but often popular opinion means the publics opinion who often doesnt know more than just the surfice of the matter, those UN members know way more than just the surfice of this matter. But while that is just their opinion and the US, Israel and you have their own opinion right now the majority is getting their way.

and now I must leave because my isp is going crazy stupid on me and my internet connection is hardly working right now