Is Apple stagnant?

[sxr7171]

This is how I see it with Apple. Their PC OS (OS X) is far more user friendly than Windows by a mile. All their productivity stuff also is. But it's not perfect and it's not really where they are focusing now anyway.

IMHO in the past decade they have done two great things that have basically made them:

1. Design an interface for a music player that allows the user to easily and quickly find a particular song among thousands.

2. Design a touch screen interface that responds to touch instantaneously and exactly as a physical object would respond.


On the first point. I remember the MP3 players before the iPod. You couldn't find the song you wanted out of even 100 without standing on the middle of the street fiddling with the thing for a minute. That clickwheel was the biggest game changer in terms of music player interfaces. It was a solution to a HUGE problem with regard to a music player holding thousands of songs.

On the second. I have to admit when I first saw the iPhone I was so skeptical that you could properly dial numbers etc. without a keypad. I thought the product was a joke, I mean you couldn't even add contacts on the device. The first version lacked any features that would qualify it as a smartphone. I didn't consider it a smartphone. But they really focused on one issue: INTERFACE. They proved that the interface was the foundation upon which anything could be added. Features without that foundation were worthless. That interface is gold. Even today Android can't properly replicate its feel. It's so natural feeling that innately human beings take to it like fish to water. Hand the device to a 3 year old or a 95 year old and both will "get it" in about 3 minutes. That interface is the game changer of the decade.


So getting to point. Apple comes up with an innovative interface every 7 or so years. Getting these things right is very very hard. There is pure genius in those interfaces. That does not happen often. We can't predict what the next thing will be but I know it takes years and years of development.

The iOS ecosystem and cloud is nothing special. Everyone from Amazon to Google to Microsoft are doing the same and frankly one of those can do it better hands down.

So for Apple to move ahead again that new interface must come out. It must be a real problem that people face. TV right now is pretty horrible even with the best TiVO. Hands free systems in cars are pretty bad also.

It's hard for me to imagine what it could be short of mind control of some of these systems we have to deal with everyday. I think Google tried with Google TV to create a unified source for video content but as usual they aren't very good at making interfaces. But a video device that just asks you what you want and pulls it from Netflix, Hulu, iTunes, Cable, OnDemand whatever without the user needing to care where it came from would be a good system. I suspect that's what they're working on.

A watch would be cool. I guess it would have read gestures "written" in the air above it.

Whatever it is it just has to work perfectly. Reliably, and consistently. I think those things Steve Jobs valued the most. Right now with iOS6 things are becoming buggy kind of Microsoft stuff. That OS needs an overhaul badly.

 

[sxr7171]

I think the entire industry is at an odd spot, with many product categories becoming commoditized with most of the tech being good enough and little differentiation between products. And the industry doesn't know quite what to do - attempt to be a game changer (like Win8/WinPhone) and you alienate your core, remain consistent and you're labeled boring. Or you can do like Samsung and throw a shit ton of useless gimmicks at a boner grabbing audience, but is throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks really innovation? I'm not sure what's the best approach, but genuine innovation isn't happening because I don't think it's quite necessary yet.

Actually, I think at least apple has just a hair of differentiation on their side, people do respect their superior service and customer experience (from consistent build quality to the unique retail experience with their Apple stores). I wouldn't call them doomed, but I think the next shift in mobile will revolved around A.R. or some other futuristic but possible in a generation or two application, we're just not there yet.

For TV - yeah, apple tv would fucking rule if they just enabled apps.. I respect apple's tendency to wait until they get something right (vs. what I feel is google and their partner's 'EVERYONE'S A BETA TESTER! YAY!' approach), but they are dragging their feet a bit on this. I believe it's more copyright related/licensing fees b.s. than apple holding up innovation. Because, once the apple tv gains apps, the cable companies are toast.

I completely agree that they wait until things really work. I guess being a techie/early adopter type runs one through a gamut of beta level products. When Apple releases a version of a product I know it will work and it will serve me instead of me serving it through tweaking, modifying, troubleshooting, testing etc.

 

[dagamer34]

I think the entire industry is at an odd spot, with many product categories becoming commoditized with most of the tech being good enough and little differentiation between products. And the industry doesn't know quite what to do - attempt to be a game changer (like Win8/WinPhone) and you alienate your core, remain consistent and you're labeled boring. Or you can do like Samsung and throw a shit ton of useless gimmicks at a boner grabbing audience, but is throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks really innovation? I'm not sure what's the best approach, but genuine innovation isn't happening because I don't think it's quite necessary yet.

Actually, I think at least apple has just a hair of differentiation on their side, people do respect their superior service and customer experience (from consistent build quality to the unique retail experience with their Apple stores). I wouldn't call them doomed, but I think the next shift in mobile will revolved around A.R. or some other futuristic but possible in a generation or two application, we're just not there yet.

For TV - yeah, apple tv would fucking rule if they just enabled apps.. I respect apple's tendency to wait until they get something right (vs. what I feel is google and their partner's 'EVERYONE'S A BETA TESTER! YAY!' approach), but they are dragging their feet a bit on this. I believe it's more copyright related/licensing fees b.s. than apple holding up innovation. Because, once the apple tv gains apps, the cable companies are toast.

Apps on Apple TV would be great until every TV channel basically had an app, and then we've basically re-invented the wheel that is cable TV. I don't want channel apps, I just want shows.

 

[Tegeril]

Yeah. It seems silly. I was playing Angry Birds on my brother's Roku with the motion control and it was pretty cool, and it left me wondering why there's no Apple version of this.

I mean, look at the OUYA console - Apple could kill them in a heartbeat by taking mobile gaming apps, putting them on the AppleTV, and adding some kind of neat motion/button controller.

It's the same with sound - why hasn't Apple killed Sonos and gone the whole-house audio route? You can already hack it with Airfoil & Reemote to get that functionality. I'd really like Smarthouse/Home Automation technology to be in Apple's future too, sort of like INSTEON is doing now with their dual-band RF/powerline stuff.

The silliest part is they already have an install base of hardware. And it's relatively safe to say the households with Apple TVs tend to have other iDevices so everyone already has at least one controller. The quantity of Apple TVs that would fly off the shelves...

 

[Tegeril]

Apps on Apple TV would be great until every TV channel basically had an app, and then we've basically re-invented the wheel that is cable TV. I don't want channel apps, I just want shows.

Games, weather, home security, at a glance dashboard info (how ridiculously stupid is it that the Panic status board app requires an iPad permanently tethered to a TV), commercial app platform for custom UIs, native resolution web browsing with a phone as a keyboard, video calls via USB cameras, I mean... it's not just about networks making tv apps.

 

[slackerinabox]

Apps on Apple TV would be great until every TV channel basically had an app, and then we've basically re-invented the wheel that is cable TV. I don't want channel apps, I just want shows.

I think that's the catch, networks want to keep their branding and "experience" and don't want to turn over control to one entity (CBS' hesitation with HULU as an example), and all you can eat doesn't benefit them, it would totally cannabilize the very lucrative dvd market. And flat rate pricing is probably another issue- I think that's what's going to be the hang up - does an episode of Pawn Stars cost as much to produce as Breaking Bad? I think apps allow individual content providers the ability to specify pricing so that may be the compromise, but apple's good at figuring out logistics like that.

 

[zingaro100]

Yup. I'm sort of on the fence on my vision for their desktop future as well. The mix of nice interface & stable operation & Intel chips vs. the Mac App Store. On one hand, it's a computer and should be open. I like the App Store on the iPhone, but it bugs me on the computer, as the geek perspective. But for most consumers, being able to buy software digitally and then have it stored in the cloud for later re-installation is genius.

I sort of think Apple should switch to ARM for their desktops & laptops. And lock down access to the file system, like the iPhone. I was just over fixing a friend's computer who likes to tinker on the Windows side and thought they could do the same on the Mac side. Ended up with crazy OS & app problems. So locking down the computers further by making proprietary processors, restricting access to the computer system files, and limiting apps to the app store would be an extremely consumer-friendly way to go, no matter how much it offends my nerd sensibilities. I love my Hackintoshes, but I think the general population would appreciate the appliance approach, like the iPhone & iPad gives them.

Yup, on the Pro side - a new Mac Pro makes sense, but just how much of a market share is that? There are still a bunch of G5s out there that have recorded many hit recordings. Still, those users will upgrade. I've got my eye on an Intel machine when the new Mac Pro comes, but Apple is making it's bucks on "other" stuff. Hackintoshes have peaked my interest though.

 

[Kaido]

Yup, on the Pro side - a new Mac Pro makes sense, but just how much of a market share is that? There are still a bunch of G5s out there that have recorded many hit recordings. Still, those users will upgrade. I've got my eye on an Intel machine when the new Mac Pro comes, but Apple is making it's bucks on "other" stuff. Hackintoshes have peaked my interest though.

With $100 billion+ in the bank, I think that Apple should do it as a public service, lol. People used to love to sneak Mac stuff onto TV sets instead of having PC's as the set computers that characters used, haha. I wonder how much of that we'll see in the future...

 

[Zaap]

Definitely Apple needs to get back into the pro market. Marketshare isn't as important there- a studio will drop $15K on a single loaded MacPro seat and not bat an eyelash. But not if someone else is offering a better option for $12K. Apple needs to become 'the best' again in the eyes of people with virtually bottomless checkbooks.

As for new markets- I'd really love to see Apple revolutionize car audio. To me, that's the next frontier, where I want a does-everything/synchs with everything multimedia/gps/communications powerhouse without having to resort to some uber-geeky custom mod nonsense.

Imagine an Apple car computer with touch screen that fit the same form factor as a single or double-din car stereo today, and that was just about as easy to install.

Even if that dream isn't possible- at the very least Apple could possible make deals directly with auto companies to make a car system similar to how Microsoft does the Sync.

Only with Apple, I'd expect the car system of the future. Virtually everything to do with current car-computers is like something from 2006 at the latest. I don't know why it is when it comes to cars, all the makers of auto-computing are perfectly fine with pawning off their ages-outdated crap. A friend of mine recently bought a brand-new BMW, and the in-dash GPS and electronics looked like some crap interface from 2006. He dropped way more for a car than I'd ever think of spending- and yet got what to me looks like a $169 electronics system grafted in.

If anyone could make something that's actually up to par with today's tech for your car, I'd bet Apple could do it. After they did, I bet it'd be another of those things where everyone else slaps their forehead and goes "Gee! Why didn't we think of that?!"

 

[Kaido]

Imagine an Apple car computer with touch screen that fit the same form factor as a single or double-din car stereo today, and that was just about as easy to install.

Even if that dream isn't possible- at the very least Apple could possible make deals directly with auto companies to make a car system similar to how Microsoft does the Sync.

There are 2 catches with doing that:

1. Everyone already has a mobile device (with all their stuff synced on it)
2. Updates

One of the big problems with cars is that the only time they ever really get updated is if you ask your local dealer to put new firmware in, if they're willing to do it (and usually for a fee). So unless the car has 3G, or you park near wifi, the iTunes etc. support would get outdated pretty quickly. I read some article recently about how a slew of not-that-old cars with iOS integration are now suffering from incompatibility...what a horrible thing to do to someone who spent $15K+ on a machine, where one of the big selling points was iPhone or iPod integration. Plus, nobody wants to sync their iPod to their car when they can just hook it up over Bluetooth, or with a USB or Minijack cable.

Plus, a lot of new stereos are coming out as "digital media receivers" instead of "CD receivers" - $99 gets you a CD-less car stereo that has Bluetooth calling & audio streaming, plus USB control for your iPod:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_500UTE42BT/Alpine-UTE-42BT.html?tp=5684

And you can get Automatic this summer for Bluetooth OBD-II:

http://www.automatic.com/

I think stuff like that is a much better fit for automotive applications...that way you can upgrade both your stereo and your mobile device at your leisure and you're not stuck with it. Like when Bluetooth 5.0 comes out and you buy an iPhone 6S+, you can simply upgrade your stereo for $99 and get the latest compatibility.

Also, MS Sync is horrific. Oh my gosh. So bad :biggrin:

 

[Zaap]

A simple USB I/O as well as update via wifi/iPhone, etc could take care of all of that.

That's why I'm saying Apple should come up with a next-gen solution that makes sense in 2013 and beyond, not just another hodgepodge of current 2006-era geeky BS.

It's kind of funny to me- people will take their laptops and devices with them on airplanes, to use in coffee shops, on vacation thousands of miles from home... and yet we're still of the mindset that expecting a modern level of connectivity and computing power in our cars is science fiction stuff- our cars where many of spend a hell of a lot more time all told than in coffee shops or sitting on airplanes.

Sure, as you say, people have their mobile devices with them in the car- but you just illustrated the problem. You're then forced to rely on third-parties that could care less and are still stuck years behind the times in order to use them. Apple could easily just eliminate the middle-man.

 

[dagamer34]

A simple USB I/O as well as update via wifi/iPhone, etc could take care of all of that.

That's why I'm saying Apple should come up with a next-gen solution that makes sense in 2013 and beyond, not just another hodgepodge of current 2006-era geeky BS.

It's kind of funny to me- people will take their laptops and devices with them on airplanes, to use in coffee shops, on vacation thousands of miles from home... and yet we're still of the mindset that expecting a modern level of connectivity and computing power in our cars is science fiction stuff- our cars where many of spend a hell of a lot more time all told than in coffee shops or sitting on airplanes.

Sure, as you say, people have their mobile devices with them in the car- but you just illustrated the problem. You're then forced to rely on third-parties that could care less and are still stuck years behind the times in order to use them. Apple could easily just eliminate the middle-man.

Problem with cars is the time it takes from conception to production is 4 years and that's assuming an automaker is extremely aggressive. At some point I think we'll just have to settle for a "dumb" screen which displays data from a smartphone connected via USB so it never gets outdated. Too bad that would actually require multiple companies working together to actually make that standard a reality.

 

[slackerinabox]

Problem with cars is the time it takes from conception to production is 4 years and that's assuming an automaker is extremely aggressive. At some point I think we'll just have to settle for a "dumb" screen which displays data from a smartphone connected via USB so it never gets outdated. Too bad that would actually require multiple companies working together to actually make that standard a reality.

Yeah, apple's not going to get into car audio - it just won't happen, it's too small of a market and car makers seem to prefer proprietary systems. Maybe they'll make some sort of SDK for integration, but I truly truly doubt you'll see apple hardware (you know how many skus would be necessary?! very unapple).

TV, on the other hand..

 

[Zaap]

At some point I think we'll just have to settle for a "dumb" screen which displays data from a smartphone connected via USB so it never gets outdated. Too bad that would actually require multiple companies working together to actually make that standard a reality.

I'd settle for that, if Apple was the one making the 'dumb screen' and it integrated well with everything.

I fully admit I don't know all the tech-requirements and real-world details involved, so of course I know I'm kind-of dreaming here, but I would love for it to be a modular system that the user installs themselves- the same as any car stereo today. Not something Apple would be forced to compromise with automakers on.

For instance- I look at that Alpine unit Kaido linked to. It's probably pretty cool. But then, I remember thinking cellphones were pretty cool back before the iPhone changed everything. Sure, they got the job done, and they all looked the same and barely changed year after year after year.(I mean really, if I told someone that Alpine unit was from 2005, on first glance, would they doubt me?) Then the iPhone came along and changed most people's minds about what a smartphone really should be.

I clearly remember thinking myself that an Apple phone was probably a dumb idea and that they should just stick with computers. Because I was just thinking of them just aping what everyone else was doing. My mindset was stuck in the then-present. But one thing I must give Apple- with major product launches, they think in the future.

I don't see why Apple couldn't do for car computing what they did for phones, make people slap their foreheads and think "Of course! Of course I want this in my car. Of couse I'm no longer just going to settle for some half-assed crap in my car, as opposed to this amazing thing that does everything the way it should have been done all along. And now of course, I expect everyone else to re-think their tired old devices as well and play catch up."

I'd agree it was probably an impossible dream if Apple didn't have billions in the bank. I believe they could make it happen if they put some of that cash to good use.

 

[smackababy]

I'd settle for that, if Apple was the one making the 'dumb screen' and it integrated well with everything.

I fully admit I don't know all the tech-requirements and real-world details involved, so of course I know I'm kind-of dreaming here, but I would love for it to be a modular system that the user installs themselves- the same as any car stereo today. Not something Apple would be forced to compromise with automakers on.

For instance- I look at that Alpine unit Kaido linked to. It's probably pretty cool. But then, I remember thinking cellphones were pretty cool back before the iPhone changed everything. Sure, they got the job done, and they all looked the same and barely changed year after year after year.(I mean really, if I told someone that Alpine unit was from 2005, on first glance, would they doubt me?) Then the iPhone came along and changed most people's minds about what a smartphone really should be.

I clearly remember thinking myself that an Apple phone was probably a dumb idea and that they should just stick with computers. Because I was just thinking of them just aping what everyone else was doing. My mindset was stuck in the then-present. But one thing I must give Apple- with major product launches, they think in the future.

I don't see why Apple couldn't do for car computing what they did for phones, make people slap their foreheads and think "Of course! Of course I want this in my car. Of couse I'm no longer just going to settle for some half-assed crap in my car, as opposed to this amazing thing that does everything the way it should have been done all along. And now of course, I expect everyone else to re-think their tired old devices as well and play catch up."

I'd agree it was probably an impossible dream if Apple didn't have billions in the bank. I believe they could make it happen if they put some of that cash to good use.

The problem with an Apple car stereo, is the same problem all car stereo makers face. There isn't a form factor acceptable as the standard. I can't just remove the radio in any car and pop in a new one, unless it fits perfectly or I have to get a professional to cut and mold it in it.

Now, you also get to take into account all the proprietary control connections cars seem to have.

Apple would either have to partner with a company and blow everyone out of the water (making other companies want the iRadio or iCar or iWhatever) or create such a unit that interfaces with the majority of cars (which is unrealistic).

 

[Zaap]

The problem with an Apple car stereo, is the same problem all car stereo makers face. There isn't a form factor acceptable as the standard. I can't just remove the radio in any car and pop in a new one, unless it fits perfectly or I have to get a professional to cut and mold it in it.

Well, I was assuming today's 'standard' for single or double-din car stereo. You still need whatever adapter for those to replace a factory unit.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I know I'm dreaming. I know it'd probably never happen for all the various reasons you guys have pointed out. Hey, I can still dream though, can't I?

 

[dagamer34]

Well, I was assuming today's 'standard' for single or double-din car stereo. You still need whatever adapter for those to replace a factory unit.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I know I'm dreaming. I know it'd probably never happen for all the various reasons you guys have pointed out. Hey, I can still dream though, can't I?

On many new cars I've seen, double-din is gone. It wasn't there in the 2009 Toyota Camry or 2008 Honda Accord which are very popular cars.

 

[slackerinabox]

Interesting thread turned into "why an apple car radio, a product no one ever expected would exist, can't possibly ever exist"

 

[joshhedge]

This is only the start: http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/03/apple-ferrari-siri-ipad/

Ferrari are the first firm to incorporate an iPad Mini into one of their production cars, the FF. Maybe in 10 years we'll see this in Audis or Fords...

 

[Kaido]

Interesting thread turned into "why an apple car radio, a product no one ever expected would exist, can't possibly ever exist"

It's a good tangent though, because Apple hasn't really dipped their feet into the automotive market. But can you imagine a built-in iOS car stereo with 3G & GPS? That would definitely be pretty cool, sync issues aside.

Or some kind of trasnferrable SIM...hop in the car and all my stuff is already there, instead of turning on Bluetooth.

 

[Kaido]

On many new cars I've seen, double-din is gone. It wasn't there in the 2009 Toyota Camry or 2008 Honda Accord which are very popular cars.

Not only that, but there's so much factory integration these days that it's easier just to get a line-level converter if you want to add a subwoofer & separate amps/speakers. My wife's base-model Civic came with a backup cam, Bluetooth calling, Bluetooth streaming, and what is probably the most pathetic stock speaker system I've ever heard in my life :biggrin: So it already has all of the features you could ask for, but the sound definitely needs an upgrade.

Plus there's a USB port in the center console, with an indent to run your charging cable out so you can manipulate the screen (although the steering wheel controls work for everything from the cell phone feature to MOG).

 

[Kaido]

The problem with an Apple car stereo, is the same problem all car stereo makers face. There isn't a form factor acceptable as the standard. I can't just remove the radio in any car and pop in a new one, unless it fits perfectly or I have to get a professional to cut and mold it in it.

Now, you also get to take into account all the proprietary control connections cars seem to have.

Apple would either have to partner with a company and blow everyone out of the water (making other companies want the iRadio or iCar or iWhatever) or create such a unit that interfaces with the majority of cars (which is unrealistic).

That's not really such a big deal though...Crutchfield includes a DIN adapter free with every order, so even if you have a weird-shaped car, chances are they already have an adapter for it. And there are plenty of kits for steering wheel control connections to connect the new stereo to those controls. So it's pretty easy these days.

 

[Kaido]

I'd settle for that, if Apple was the one making the 'dumb screen' and it integrated well with everything.

I fully admit I don't know all the tech-requirements and real-world details involved, so of course I know I'm kind-of dreaming here, but I would love for it to be a modular system that the user installs themselves- the same as any car stereo today. Not something Apple would be forced to compromise with automakers on.

For instance- I look at that Alpine unit Kaido linked to. It's probably pretty cool. But then, I remember thinking cellphones were pretty cool back before the iPhone changed everything. Sure, they got the job done, and they all looked the same and barely changed year after year after year.(I mean really, if I told someone that Alpine unit was from 2005, on first glance, would they doubt me?) Then the iPhone came along and changed most people's minds about what a smartphone really should be.

I clearly remember thinking myself that an Apple phone was probably a dumb idea and that they should just stick with computers. Because I was just thinking of them just aping what everyone else was doing. My mindset was stuck in the then-present. But one thing I must give Apple- with major product launches, they think in the future.

I don't see why Apple couldn't do for car computing what they did for phones, make people slap their foreheads and think "Of course! Of course I want this in my car. Of couse I'm no longer just going to settle for some half-assed crap in my car, as opposed to this amazing thing that does everything the way it should have been done all along. And now of course, I expect everyone else to re-think their tired old devices as well and play catch up."

I'd agree it was probably an impossible dream if Apple didn't have billions in the bank. I believe they could make it happen if they put some of that cash to good use.

Another good alternative would be to make a stereo receiver dock. So sort of like the Alpine unit, where there's just a volume knob, except a horizontal dock adapter - one that the end-user could swap out based on the phone they have. So you get in your car, slide your phone right into the center dash, and then it's charging, you can do calling, access your music, etc. What would be even better is if there was a higher-end unit with a flip-out 7" touchscreen that emulated the screen. So sort of a motorized iPad Mini that just mirrors your iPhone. Hook up Pandora, cell phone calling, Google Maps for GPS, etc.

 

[Megatomic]

I'm sorry guys, but judging by the contents of this thread, yes Apple is stagnant. A few years back this thread would have been a hotbed of conversation with plenty of good, constructive posting and even some trolling.

 

[Kaido]

I'm sorry guys, but judging by the contents of this thread, yes Apple is stagnant. A few years back this thread would have been a hotbed of conversation with plenty of good, constructive posting and even some trolling.

Yeah. And I think what Oyeve said was right - I think the whole industry is stagnant. I think we reached "good enough" awhile back. There will always be areas that require extras horsepower, ex. gaming, science, video, NSA, etc., but I've even seen a shift in my own electronics usage - I live on my phone now and use the computer far, far less than I used to, mainly just when I want to do some long typing, otherwise it's straight to the phone.

And I don't even know if there's really anything I stand in need of. My phone works great. When I use it, my computer works great. My Roku streams Netflix. I have all the music I want on MOG on my phone, for my stereo/headphones/car. I dunno. Technology has brought a lot of conveniences into my life. Things are pretty good these days :thumbsup: